Whoo, wee. The wife was dead TWO MONTHS before you started dating?!?

Honey, I see red flags flying EVERYWHERE here.

1. Long term marriage, as children of it are adults.
2. Wife died 2 months before you started dating.
3. Relationship is ONLY 4 months (MONTHS!) old, and you're talking marriage. WTF?????
4. You've never been married and have no children... you cannot possibly know what to expect.
5. You are expecting a marriage proposal within a few months... sounds VERY MUCH like this man is lonely and needs a "wife" in his life... and it doesn't really matter who.
6. He is GRIEVING. It sounds like he is trying to ignore/replace the grief with the excitement of a new relationship.
7. His children are grieving. I'm all for widow/er(s) moving on with their lives and their children should be supportive. This is too soon. WAY too soon.

Grieving the end of a marriage is said to take half the length of the marriage. Grieving a death is said to take "at least" a year.
What's the hurry? Why are you so eager to jump into this situation? Are you considerably younger than this man?

cowlypso,

Perhaps one of the reasons it's so awkward is that he is marrying so soon after his wife's death. I know that men do that, but he must be grieving and you must have to listen to many stories about her. I would think that the kids are puzzled by this and worried that he's moving too fast. Does he discuss his feelings about you with them and listen to their concerns about his marrying so soon? I have been a widow for nearly two years and can't even imagine it. But then again, I would never marry a man with children again, and it's pretty darn hard to find someone without. You need a lot of help from him if this is ever going to work. I would wait to marry until he makes an effort to talk to his kids about marrying you. They've lost their mother and are likely grieving, too. The best advice I could give you is to slow down. Many widows and widowers talk about their transition relationships (first after their husband/wife's death) as not lasting. As someone who has never been married before, you are walking into a lot of feelings, and it's bound to be very awkward. I would talk to your minister or a grief counselor about what lies ahead for you.

Again, I'd insist that he do some work on his relationship with them before you throw yourself into the fray. He needs to let them know how much you mean to him so that they will at least know that he would like them to treat you respectfully. And I'm not sure how I feel about him taking down family photos. If I were his kids, that would bother me. It's like his life before didn't exist and we all know what denial brings to us. My husband kept many pictures of his kids up and even some of his ex. I understood that it represented his history, but finally asked him to take her portrait down, which he quickly did. Just so you know, I don't believe in pre-grieving. I understand that he knew she was dying and that it took many years, but you don't "move on" in two months, no matter how appealing that is. I'd be suspicious of this.

I had a totally different response written before this but I thought I better not be so harse.
The one thought I do want to throw out there is that LIFE IS FOR THE LIVING. We're not in Victorian times where a widow/widower wore black for months on end and did their best to not go out in public nor are we so void of all emotion and morals where we go out and party the day after we bury our loved one. Why begrudge someone for wanting to enjoy their life? For the person that said they don't believe in "pre-grieving", I don't know if you've ever had someone close to you suffer and then pass from cancer or some other debilitating illness, but even if you have, everyone grieves different. Death is difficult for everyone but when the person who died has been ill and/or suffering for an extended amount of time, the death can almost be a relief for the survivors and that in itself becomes a whole different issue when the survivor goes through the "guilty" phase of their mourning process.
The OP was asking for advice on how to act around the younger daughter who the OP does understand is grieving the loss of her mother. The OP sounds like she is trying to be understanding of the daughter's feelings but would still like to make an attempt at a relationship with her and just as many others on here are going through problems with their SO kids but are met with resistance, a person can only take so much b*#&S*#@ before they stop trying.
My advice would be to continue to be civil and under the circumstances give her a little more time than you would normally give someone and then if the daughter still seems distant to you, I would do as knuckle suggests and try to talk to her and find out why she feels the way she does toward you. At the least you may be able to clear up some of the misconceptions she has about your and her dad's relationship, the same misconceptions I see others write about on here where the BM has planted the 'hate' seed even when there wasn't a death involved.

Cowlypso,
I feel for you. I didn't date my DH until his wife was dead for 10 years and still got treated that way. I applaud your SO for stating that in the future his daughter would not be given any choice whether or not you will be attending something.
Everyone grieves differently and no one can judge anyone until they have walked a mile in their shoes. You came here to ask for advice in a professional caring way and I don't think you deserved some of these responses.
I would keep your heart closed to these girls. You will probably be in for some real heartache and if you haven't opened your heart to them wholeheartedly, it won't hurt so bad.
Read some these threads, read Stepmonster, I just wish I knew about this sight 10 years ago, it would have saved me all sorts of pain and heartache!
Be polite and smile and treat her like a coworker or church member, but don't TRY, it will backfire.

I just can't imagine a father doing this to his dtr. His wife died and you started dating 2 months later??? And you were someone the wife felt uncomfortable with, but you claim her concerns were totally unfounded, yet you dated 2 months after she died? If I were the dtr I would be very hurt too.

You are witnessing how he treated his wife and now his dtr. It is not sensitive to their grieving to date you openly after 2 months or to insist to bring another woman to the child's "big day" months after her mom died.

Yes, people respond differently with grief. I know as I had my sister die at 34. I witnessed different responses. This is not about him responding to grief. It's about how he moved on from his dying wife before she was dead and how he is void of sensitivity to his dtr after her mother died.

Are peope missing the point of what Cowlypso was asking for? She wasn't asking for your opinion on how and why she started dating her SO, all she wants is some advice on how to move forward with her SOs daughter. It seems like people on her like to judge people instead of sticking to the topic and offering sound advice.

I can see how reassuring the removal of photos, personal effects, is from your point of view but thinking about this from the daughters' points of view one can see it seems unduly hasty. A more gradual removal of the personal stuff may have been more tolerable to them. I wonder if he shouldn't take the framed ring etc out of the basement where it is hidden away, and offer it to the girls? Seems strange to put it where no-one can have it. Might be a peace offering?
I agree with other posters who advise that you check a bit further with bereavement services as to what to expect. My instinct is to wait for any significant movement towards them, such as trying to discuss their feelings with them, to AFTER the first anniversary; for, irrational though it is, anniversaries mean a lot to people and they will be concerned about their mother's first anniversary and how their father relates to this.

I did not read all of the previous statements but as for the people who say you are moving too quickly.. All I have to say is my grandfather left my grandmother and remarried to a long time friend within 5 months and is happier than he has ever been. My grandparents and I were very close growing up and they helped raise me as my mother was a single parent and worked a lot. I hated the fact that he left her and was moving so quickly. I know their mother has past away but the feeling of moving on might be something she is experiencing. I was AWFUL to my grandfathers new wife. I cussed her, called her names, even refused to be in his life if she was going to be. My Gpa put his foot down. He sat me down and told me he loved me, he told me I would understand companionship and the need to be happy and in love in your life, he then told me that he did not want to do this but that she was going to be in his life and if I didn't respect them that I would not be allowed to be around him. When the switch was flipped and this was no longer about me I became angry and I said some horrible things that I am sure he still remembers to this day. I didn't speak to him for about 2 months. He would call occasionally to say hi but I would let it go to voice mail. Eventually, I realized that I was being ridiculous and to see him happy was what was important. I know everyone in this family is grieving but that doesn't mean that your BF doesn;t love you, or is trying to replace his previous wife. I would try to talk to him about handling his daughter this way. The older one will help her come around even more quickly. The main thing for you to do if he takes this approach is to distance yourself. Say hello and be polite but do not push. My gpa's wife was polite and eventually I started conversations and apologized for my outrageous behavior. We are now civil friends and I wish them the best. Good luck in your situation.

Lets Empathize..

How would yopu have felt if you mother died and your father had a new girlfriend in two months? then emptied the home you grew up in what made it a home, all to appease the new girlfirend and make her feel comfortable?

Seriously, If my dog died I would prob be heartbroken enough to wait more then two months before replacing it.

My husband and I started dating about 3 months after his wife died. This is very very normal. Over 50% of widowers who remarry get married within 2 years of their wife's death and many men are dating within a month or two. Men grieve very differently than women and many husbands when dealing with a prolong illness have already accepted that they need to move on before their wife has died.

When dealing with widowers' daughters, there's no easy solutions. My SD was 17 when we got married. None of my skids have accepted me and I've come to terms with the fact that I will never have anything to do with them.

Generally if the kids do no accept you at first, then that isn't going to change and you and your widower need to decide how you want to proceed.

I suggest you read Abel Keogh's book, Marrying a Widower, which has a lot of good advice. Abel also has a website with a blog with a lot of good advice. He's a widower himself and he remarried about a year after his wife died.
http://abelkeogh.com/

Abel Keogh. Guess I'll be downloading some of his stuff to my Kindle!
As delicately as I can express this without drawing any ire, the deceased have a tendency to be uplifted to "saint hood" by merely dying. It is sometimes an impossible task to compete with a dead woman. This is true in my case. I too have lost my mother and loved her very much but she was a human and a sinner like all of us. It is not fair to put a brick wall up when someone new comes into your family. I'm sure all of you would not like being held with disdain for being alive and breathing. It would be like saying "I will never love another child as much as my first" The second child comes along and guess what? You heart is big enough to love that child too! My sons have no trouble accepting this. They are glad mom found someone . There is no hatred towards my husband, no comparison to the dad they lost (trust me, my first and second husband are complete opposites) but my step daughters have been on a hate campaign since our first date and he had been a widower for 10+ years. We now have been married 10 years and dated 2 years. My stepson was very wary and shy , but he too has denounced the hate his sisters have spewed.

I was thinking about this situation and why it's so difficult.

First, for a child, the parent is an irreplaceable loss. You aren't going to go out and get a new one! So to his DD, seeing a new woman so soon is like saying that her mom was replaceable pretty darn easily. Maybe it's not logical, but I think it's understandable. The irreplaceable loss is much harder to get over, don't you think?

Also, why this is offensive to others, including me, I must admit and had to ask myself, we tend to believe that the marriage bond is a special and rare one (perhaps against evidence). And it IS in the soul mate category. I know, I've had both. Could I find another DH, someone so in tune with on every level? Not easily. And I wouldn't even want to get married again should I lose him.

So someone can lose their "soul mate" and within a month or two, find another? Ha. Why can't all those single guys and girls out there find their soul mates so easily? I was 48 when I met mine, after two bad marriages.

I have to conclude that when people move on quickly that a) their marriage wasn't that great (hey, if I'd lost my EX I would not have been devastated) or b) other forces are at work here, like the need to fill the gaping hole, companionship, sex, etc.

I just know that if I lost my DH (and I imagine sometimes to scare myself), it would be like losing a body part. And I would not be jumping into marriage with some new person within months. They just couldn't measure up and I would have trouble allowing that kind of inferior closeness.

In divorce, it's OK to scorn the previous mate and be honest about how crappy it was. When they die, not so much.

Abe's wife killed herself, btw. That sounds like a good marriage, not.

cowlypso, you have been given lots of good advice - from every spectrum. It's up to you to make a decision on how to proceed with your SO's daughters. And don't be fooled, just because the older daughter is amenable now doesn't mean she won't eventually have issues just like the younger one does. Be prepared.

I do have concerns over your statement, "this is the first guy I've seriously dated." No offense intended, but if that's true you are horribly unprepared for a relationship like this one which will be fraught with unbelievable challenges. The issue of acceptance from his daughters is not a temporary blip - this will be a challenge you will face FOREVER! No matter what you do to try and remedy it, and no matter your protestations otherwise, the daughters will probably always feel that your relationship with their father was rooted in dishonor to their mother.

Take a step back and think about this statement you made, "... easier if she'd either come around or leave, but instead she wants a relationship with her dad with no trace of me." It seems like in your mind it's an either or situation - daughter or me. Our subconscious actions and inferences can have great weight. Be honest with yourself. You say you ignore the YD but since it's in your subconscious that you hope she just "goes away" maybe your facial expressions match that feeling. You sense her attitude towards her so she is undoubtedly getting vibes from you, too.

In any case, I would recommend taking a step back, taking a good amount of time, and using the utmost in honesty when making an assessment of this situation - to include my own behavior and if it was ultimately self-serving. If it were me, I would step back a bit and allow this FAMILY enough time to heal, and then slowly try to find my place in it.

After all, real love is patient and kind. I remember reading that somewhere ...

Although the OP's question was NOT in regards to the dynamics of the timing of the relationship, but how to handle her soon to be SD, you can't dismiss the fact that the timing of the relationship weighs heavy on the feelings that these girls likely have towards her.

My assistant is 23 years old. She lost her father 2 years ago last month. He had cancer for 4 years before he passed away. He was a very sick man, and everyone knew he was going to die. There was no way to truly PREPARE for this though. At least not for my assistant. Her mom moved on quickly after his death. Within a year was married to someone new. I am not sure how long they knew each other or of the events that lead up to her dating so quickly after the death of her husband. What I can tell you is that my assistant and her sister feel like their mom has completely disregarded their life. Their family and their past with their dad and mom as a family. They feel like they were still greiving over the death of their father, and their MOTHER should have been there to help them through this, and instead she was out... fostering a new relationship.

They resent their stepfather. They don't like his kids, and they barely have a relationship with their mom, at all.

It is a tough situation to be sure but the daughter is being very selfish. She should want her father to be happy.
Her comment about her not being able to get another mother but him getting to have another wife is very telling. She needs to grow up and realize the two things are very different and their grief is very different.

Before people say "How cold, she lost her mother",I was a teenager when my mother died and I NEVER would have wanted my dad to go through the rest of his life alone. I knew how much he loved my mother but I did not expect him to mourn and be broken forever (nor would my mother have wanted this).

I did not see his new wife as a replacement mother for me and my sisters or even a replacement wife for my dad. She was just his new wife-no replacement anything. He had to move on.

I truly believe a parent should not let their adult children run their lives. I think he should talk to his daughter and let her know he cares about her feelings, but in the long run, it is not her decision what he does. If SHE chooses to let that come between them, that is on her.

I am also a step-mother and I have never tried to come between my husband and his kids. They have always tried to manipulate him and still do (they are adults now) but he does not let them. He gets his feelings hurt, knowing that they want money from him more than an actual relationship and this does hurt me to see him hurt, but they choose to treat him that way and I will not feel responsible for that.

I would treat her just as you would if you weren't dating her dad. Be cordial and respectful and know that you are not the cause of her unhappiness.

The marital bond is NOT broken at death! How naive you are. Completely ignorant about what it's like to lose a spouse and/or a parent.

While I don't think they should be rude to you, I do think you need to took at things from their POV. It seems like your expecting them to run to you with open arms and instantly become one big happy family months after their mother died. That's not going to happen, while your happily in love, their coming to terms with the fact that their mother will never to see get to see the get married or hold their children. Give them time.
Also, If I was battling cancer and my husband was off "volunteering" with a younger woman I would be jealous too.

I was 36 when my DH passed away. We had 2 children, 3 and 5 at the time. He had been terminally ill for 4 years (he was diagnosed when I was pregnant with youngest). I agree that we all grieve differently, and I for one will say I DID have 4 years to grieve and prepare. Did I hope for miracles? Sure. And when he did pass, it wasn't a shock and it wasn't unexpected. He was ready, I was ready for him. BTW, we had been married for almost 16 years at that point in time.

Honestly, I don't have an opinion one way or the other on the who's and what's of the timing of OP's relationship. As someone else said, perception is reality to most people. I know someone else who's wife passed away from a protracted illness, and he was remarried within 6 months. That was 30 years ago, and they are still married (was my best friend's father so I knew them well).

It is up to each individual person to determine what is "right" for them. Do you know how TIRED I got of hearing people tell me "too soon" when, a year and a half later I went out on a DATE? And the people who were telling me it was too soon (friends and family) had NEVER lost a spouse.

So my biggest opinion is that we have NO RIGHT to judge other people when it comes to this, unless of course you have walked in her shoes. And I've also lost a parent, and honestly, it's different than losing a spouse. At least to me.

OP: regardless of the timing of your relationship... all I can suggest is that you not force yourself on either of your SO's daughters. They will either come around or they won't. I understand they are probably extremely ambivalent about the situation because of the timing -- and they probably feel as though their father is negating his relationship with their mother (although he's NOT). How many situations have people posted about dating their now SO or DH before the divorce was final? And how do the children of that relationship behave? I would give a lot of space to the daughters at this point in time.

Hi
Eight years ago I met a widower with two children (7 & 11). I met him while his dying wife was still alive. I told him he should be at home looking after her not out and about drinking and chatting up women. I didn't see him again until after she had died which was only 3 months later, although, he did persue me for a while I just ignored his advances as it was not right for me to become involved at that time. As you have all pointed out people grieve in different ways, his grieving had started when she was still living. She had cancer so it wasn't sudden.
The skids now 19 and 15 still don't acknowledge me in the way I feel they should. The daughter is much worse than the son, however I constantly feel uncomfortable around them due to this non communication. We have all lived together for the last 7 years, which had been hard but I'm still here....just!!

I have two bio sons, one of whom still lives with us at home. I have been there for these two kids when they're father couldn't be, physically and emotionally. He had no idea of how to set boundaries etc, cook, wash and the list is endless.

The young skids are now growing up, the daughter is 20 this year but she is emotionally not that age and talks to get father in a stupid bang voice and then switches to her normal voice anyone else is around.
I am the wicked stepmother.... In their eyes. Things haven't changed I am insignificant in their eyes. I have now disengaged from daughter, who is still at home when not at university. The son looks at me like a piece
Of shit most of the time. Anyway, I do blame their father for their indifference towards me.
Too much water under the bridge now for me where his kids are concerned. Yes it's hard and uncomfortable but
"**You might bark with the big dogs on the porch, but I'm the Bitch that runs the house**"

My sentiments exactly

Good luck, you're in for a long and hard winding road with your situation.

Be strong, cos you're gonna need to be

X

I'm going to comment on just the relationship with his girls. The way they are behaving now, is the way they will behaving in five years, in 10 years, in 20 years. Unless they have a major overhaul, it is never going to change. I wish someone would have told me this before I married my DH. And he wasn't even grieving a wife. He had been divorced for several years, I wasn't even the reason for the divorce (his ex-wife left him for another man and I came into the picture severeal YEARS later), and yet his oldest daughter blames ME for the divorce. Their grandmother -- their mom's mom -- told them that I must have had an affair with their Dad and that was the real reason why they divorced! HUH!!?? We didn't even live in the same STATE! Seriously! But yet, it's my fault.

So yes, I don't even speak to the oldest one anymore, and haven't in over a year -- she is not even allowed in our home. The youngest daughter, age 17, is a little bitch to me the majority of the time, and my SS19 is an asshole to me the majority of the time.

If I could do it over again -- I WOULD TOTALLY DO IT OVER AGAIN. Some people say that love can get you through anything. NO IT CAN'T! My husband takes their side most of the time -- EVEN WHEN THEY ARE LYING THEIR ASSES OFF.

If I was you, don't do it. If she is already excluding you from dance recitals, be ready to be excluded from birthdays, babyshowers, going to the hospital when she has a baby, etc., because it's coming, unless your husband has the balls to stand up to them, which by the sounds of it, he does not if he is saying "it's your day".

I would let this fish go, and drop your line back in and start fishing again. There are plenty of fish in the sea, and ones without little whiny brats tagging along.

Do I sounds bitter -- yep, I am. I want out.

I would run a mile in the opposite direction, you will be looking at years of misery for both you and your husband to be, find a happier path in life, these girls will not only end up hating their Father but will detest you. If you truly believe he is the love of your life I would road test the relationship for a few more years before saying I do. Your husband to be needs to think about his Daughters as this will become a miserable mess.I am sorry to say but I feel he will have to chose between them and you at some point in time, do you want to break up a family? I would give his Daughters space they are too hurt to deal with a stepmother at the moment If I was in your shoes I would not rub it in their face and be with him when they are around.Do you have a thick enough skin to have decades of being hated and being made a target for everyones grief, anger and resentment. I really feel for you sounds like you met a man at the wrong place and the wrong time.Good luck.

WWOTW_ "Grieving while she was still living"?? No, he was on the prowl while she was still living! Center to all these posts is the outdated notion of loyalty. Cowlypso, I wouldn't WANT a man who moved on 2 months after his wife died, and it doesn't matter (to me, anyway) how long she was sick. Not a judgement, mind you. You say you haven't dated much- it shows. I recommend getting out there and dating some more- preferably men closer to your own age. I've been married since I was 19 to the same man but I dated a lot and was on my own a while, I had a clear picture of what I wanted in a husband. I think his daughter is the least of your worries!

This is a complicated situation.

I can see why the SDs would feel the way they do. Hopefully, I would handle said feelings differently, but it's got to be tough to see your Dad dating again two months after Mom's death.

Your feelings are understandable. You didn't cause the death of the mother, and nobody deserves to be treated like dirt.

Bear in mind that there is no time limit for grief. Everyone grieves differently. Hopefully, your SDs will remember this too.

My suggestion is don't go overboard to try to win them over. That will make you come across as pushy. They need their space. But that doesn't mean you have to be a doormat. If you are being treated rudely, then by all means politely but forcefully stick up for yourself and leave the situation if necessary.

Be patient. Be there for him, listen. You will be married soon. The daughters do not concern you, really, they are adults. I have many friends that were in this situation and are now married. Time and patience

This is just my opinion. This man you are so interested in getting married to so quickly NEEDS to go through a grieving stage unless he really never was deeply in love with his first wife to begin with. You may have been the next love of his life because he couldn't face the emptiness that he knew he was going to face when his wife took ill and passed away, so he latched onto to you. This reminds me of the John Edwards case that sob had no regards for his sick dying wife. God rest her soul.
Your case sounds like selfishness for an unrealistic life together on both ends of the spectrum. This is total dependency between the two of you. His prior wife is probably turning over in her grave. I feel for his kids...

Cowlypso,

You may not be able to undo damage already done. I agree your BF has the right to live his life as he sees fit and also that everyone grieves differently. Having said that, it is pretty much a given that children will grieve their parents for more than 2 months. You may have made the rest of your life much easier if you dated in a much more subtle way, keeping his family out of it. For example, by going to Easter when their Mom had just barely been buried, I don't think you've done yourself any favors.

I agree with another poster here that things will probably not get any better with the SD with whom you have conflicts. I am honestly surprised you haven't had huge conflicts with them both. From what you've shared you may be in for lots of conflict in this situation. You have to know even those who are polite to your face must be talking. Of course they'll go on to the next scandal in no time. Being the next love interest of one who has just lost his wife is never easy, but it seems you have made things much worse for yourself by proceeding so quickly in such an assertive way.

I wish you all the best.

When I met and fell in love with my DH (at that time- a widower of 3 years), I wish I would have known how absolutely awful it would be to deal with the adult stepchildren plus the stepchildren dealing with moms death issues. I don't know if anyone can truly understand until they are knee high in crap and cant get out. Bluntly- its awful....and 5 years later it is still awful.

Get ready for a long bumpy ride.

There are a lot of widower issues that are much more subtle than 'listen to me cry over my dead wife'. Such as....the issue with him going to the even and you not invited. Prime example. See... even if DH isnt mourning the wife....he will FOREVER be mourning the fact that his kids have lost their mom. HUGELY different issue, and no it doesn't go away.

My suggestion, very honestly, is to put the brakes on. Go through all of the holidays for AT LEAST A FULL YEAR before you make any lifelong vows. The holidays, anniversaries etc will give you a really good picture of the rest of your life. No it doesnt get better...its up to you to determine if its something that YOU can live with forever.

Good luck!