I don't know much about CS. My X was a loser who was able to pay me only because of the settlement I GAVE HIM for the divorce.
Sounds like a bitter woman-hater. Especially with the line "Most women want choices for themselves only and agree only to things that benefit them. Not men." If a man doesn't want children, wear a condom. Men have choices, too. But we all know how easily men are manipulated by sex so they are easy game for psycho females.
My DH's sister is in arrears up to her eyeballs. No judge has ever let her off the hook. She irritates me a lot too about it. I posted about Thanksgiving weekend when I met her 2nd oldest son for the first time. She was saying how he won a 100 dollar gas card for selling a ton of pies and complained how he gave it to his SM. He said, "Well...she sold all the pies at work." And my SIL went on and on about how she should have gotten the gas card, when she has done NOTHING financially, and not much motherly for her kids. MIL was irritated for sure. I simply said, "Well, if SM sold all the pies at work..." Then my SIL started backtracking, realizing I'm a Custodial SM. But she is the epitome of deadbeat mom. She had the nerve to complain too when her 15 yo stayed with her several mos and hoped to move back with her, that her ex wouldn't just sign over custody and stop the current CS. I met him around then and he told me that he knew that A- his daughter would be back b/c SIL didn't have utilities or food half the time, and B- he's mostly being paid arrears right now anyway- like 70 percent of the check is from arrears.
Anyway, I think this video was a bit too propaganda/biased and not enough actual data/stats/studies/quotes which I'm sure exist somewhere. Too vague and definitely appears to be made by someone angry rather than trying to inform. I do think there's a need to bring out this issue, but the format turned me off.
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert
when only the person paying the child support is contributing to the finanical being of the child. In our case H pays all of his son's portion at his mom's house and all at our house. We have him just 24 days shy of half the year and H pays his child support on time every time, pays insurance for child, pays for extra activities, buys the school clothes and supplies..that is all for at mom's house. Now when SS is at our house he has nice room, toys, bike, clothes, xbox, goes on vacations, gets taken to the movies and other activities. Who is helping H pay for all the things at his home for his son well nobody he is. Ask how many vacations SS mom has taken him on...none Ask how many movies SS mom has taken him to see ....none Ask how many activites SS mom does with him...none. So here we have H holding up his son at his mom's and his house plus when with us he does all those other things for SS and BM does nothing but take the money and send SS to us looking like dirt and smelling like a dirty ashtray.
Now I am all for both parents taking care of the kids emotionally, financially and other wise but why is it that men are always considered to be the ones that will pay tooth and nail if a divorce/split/breakup occurs? What about the mom she should pay just as much. In many cases the child support laws are very unfair. There are many mom's out there doing the right thing and many dads doing the right thing. there are also many mom's and dad's doing the wrong thing. Nobody said it was not an obligation because it is. It is the BM's who use their child for that paycheck that make it unfair.
I notice in your information you are a biological mother... do you have stepkids? do you have an H that pays child support? you may be the BM that receives child support... every situation is different.
reading all the comments and posting my own. I agree with 90% of what was said, the last part about abortions got a bit out in left field for me though.
I have to agree, given my experience and what I see on this board. I think CS is gender biased. Our lawyer told us to expect to shell out thousands to get hundreds from BM over the course of the next 3 yrs until SD is 18. Plus the hassle of chasing her around, filing contempt motions etc when, of course, she didn't pay the measly pittance she would be assessed b/c she's a stay at home mom with two small children. Her choice mind you! I'd love to see, had our situations not changed, what would have happened if FH and I had a baby, and he decided to be a stay at home dad. "sorry BM, no more CS, I've decided to stay home and care for my child." Umm yeah, like that would fly, because somehow mysteriously, when SD came to live with us, all of a sudden in BM's estimation it costs NOTHING additional for us to support her, whereas when the same child lived at her house, it cost over 900 a month. Basically she has NO financial responsibility for this child, and he has all of it. Everything I've read on this board backs that up too.
Yes, since SD has come to live with us, our bills have gone up. Our grocery bill, and our electric bill mostly. But 900 dollars??? NO way in hell, not to mention the fact I actually feed this kid decent food, fruits, vegetables, and not ramen noodles, peanut butter and jelly and microwave pizza like her POS mom, so naturally my grocery bill will be more than hers anyway.
Totally not fair.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
"....given my experience and what I see on this board...."
Given those things I think all BMs are borderline bipolar sexually promiscuous drug addicts.
But they're not. I think we all see a somewhat small picture on our site, b/c if everything were happy and perfect we wouldn't be here complaining/venting/seeking help.
So there are a ton of people doing it well I think. I am pretty sure our cases are the exceptions. But a lot of men are really torn up about paying, even those who are well off and can afford it.
Even DH was bugged about it and his amount was fair given all BM had to buy with it. I think CS does need to be revised.
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert
the media pays far more attention to the deadbeat DAD issue than it does to abuse of CS and unfair sexism in the system.
Yes, if things were good, we wouldn't be here, but also there are also many people who haven't thought about looking online for this. Plus there's a whole side of this unaddressed on this site, what about the men who don't have a partner and are dealing with the outrageous CS alone? They and the children are the victims!
How many single men are out there, working two or three jobs to even put a roof over their heads and pay the CS? That's how my man was before me. It was my support and income that allowed for changes to occur, without that, I have little doubt things would be exactly as they were.
The system is gender biased, and it's kind of sad that the only attention these issues get are on a textfile on youtube and on our message board, while Oprah is commiserating with the stereotypical poor single mom and playing party to the villainizing of the noncustodial dad....
I think the issue of deadbeat parenting, no matter the sex of the parent, is deplorable. But just as the assumption lies in many states that the mom should have custody, so too the idea that she can't afford to pay and gets more leniency. It's this attitude of "there there dear, you're just a woman, we all know you can't get a decent job and pay for the kids you had, so don't sweat it, pay it when you can, if you can, if you feel like it." As a woman, I find it offensive.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
IMO and from personal experience - if a father does not take care of his child(ren) he is a bad father but if a woman does not take care of her kids its because the father does not pay enough child support.
Are you kidding? I hope so. Sure that happens, but there are plenty of moms who dont take the best care of their kids... just read the blogs here for a few examples.
from personal experience. I am not kidding! I have been accused of wanting more child support just to be greedy from a father who pays no attention to his son who is 17 years old. According to him, it is my fault he does not have a relationship with our son - not like he ever tried - but that's another story. I am the bad mother, b*tch, money hungry, etc according to my ex-husband because he is broke cause he has to pay child support and medical which he only pays when he gets caught not having it at work.
My kids are well cared for and want for nothing except stuff they don't need anyway. I know other mom's who get ample support but their kids are dressed in basic rags and they are getting their nails done every week and when you ask them why the kids look that way they reply - There father does not pay child support or pays very little and I know that is not true.
I cant watch the video from work, but I do have opinions on the subject.
CS laws, and more specifically how they are enforced absolutely favor women. But, they are in place because of history and precedent.
As divorce became more common and CS became a larger issue laws were put in place to support the mother and children. Largely at the time women were not full time workers any where near the percentage of today. Women had significantly less earning potential as well and would not survive without financial support.
The laws became stricter due to some fathers working around the system, finding ways to avoid paying, or simply not paying. The average family guy paid the support, but a fair percentage worked the system.
Also statistics showed that the average woman with children had a significantly lower standard of living after divorce, while the average man experienced an increase.
Today women have a better education level and higher earning potential. Men are more involved in their children’s lives then in past generations. The equality between the sexes, while still unbalanced overall, is still significantly closer than ever before. The attitudes of people tend to slowly catch up with reality, and the courts are even slower to respond. The laws may be equal, but the way they are interpreted and enforced are definitely not. Men have a sever disadvantage in family court simply because they are men. That is beginning to change, and hopefully will continue to even out.
One thing I believe is that men are responsible for their children, regardless of the circumstances. The condom broke? That is always a risk. She wont get an abortion? Too damn bad.
Men who have children they currently support should not expect to get a lowered CS payment if they go on to have more children, in most cases. They knew their commitment before engaging in a new relationship and having more kids. That child doesn’t get less expensive to raise because a man decided to increase his burden.
My DW received CS from SDs father. Its been the same amount in for the last 10 years. If anything it costs MORE today. The father got married to a woman with a BD and no CS and had a BD together. He doesn’t get to pay less because of his choices and put more burden on my family as result.
Someone mentioned that if their DH decided to be a stay at home dad then BM wouldn’t get CS. I don’t think that would fly in court. The court assigns a CS amount based on their earnings and earning potential. If a man chooses to flip burgers to spite his ex and not have to pay a greater amount because he made a good wage the court isnt going to allow this.
Many men still work the system, and many BMs work it as well. The courts look at things broadly because it is too difficult to accurately assess every individual case.
Where courts need to be more flexible is when there are economic downturns. A man who looses his job today for example also looses a significant portion of his earning potential due to job availability and lower salaries for new hiring positions in most areas.
Most of the people here tend to have unreasonable situations, which is why they found this place.
I am biased as I was raised by mom who had 4 kids and my father is a deadbeat alcoholic. He worked jobs under the table for years to avoid paying. He had and has nothing so what would my mother gain by taking him to court, which she had no money for. Perhaps he would have been jailed, but that wouldn’t help her and she thought it would hurt her kids.
I have my own daughter who will always be a priority for me and I will always make sure she is taken care of. Could my DW become a crazy BM many of you deal with? Its possible I suppose but I think the crazies many here deal with are not the majority by any means.
Sorry for the long reply… I didn’t know how to keep it short, this was my abridged version as is.
"Someone mentioned that if their DH decided to be a stay at home dad then BM wouldn’t get CS. I don’t think that would fly in court. The court assigns a CS amount based on their earnings and earning potential. If a man chooses to flip burgers to spite his ex and not have to pay a greater amount because he made a good wage the court isnt going to allow this."
that was me who wrote that, but it was in the spirit of true MA sarcasm. Of COURSE that would not fly! but for BM, it does. SHE can stay home and breed and chose not to work, and get out of paying CS. Our recourse is to spend thousands of dollars in an uncertain hope of getting a couple of hundred out of her a month, if that, and pulling teeth every time to get it. SD is 15 yrs old, it's not even WORTH the time, effort or stress for what I figured to be less than 8K we'd see between now and when she turns 18, in fact it would probably cost more than that!
I think this is grossly unfair. Worst of all is BM's sense of justice in this situation. She has NO sense of responsibility, in fact with all this custody stuff the very first thing was always "well I'm not paying CS" She doesn't feel like she should have to! WHY is that okay!?!!?
I'm 32 yrs old, and I don't have a baby. Why? Because at least at the outset, I want to stay home with my child. We can't afford that right now, so it's not happening. But BM is doing exactly that, and not caring for the kids she already has while sitting on her butt and having more kids she can't afford to take care of. It's just not right.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
I skimmed the replies so I missed the sarcasm. I am well versed in MA sarcasm. Been in it all my life. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment, but there are people who think that way.
Your BM is a living example of how things are unbalanced and unfair, and someone working the system.
Comments
I don't know much about CS.
I don't know much about CS. My X was a loser who was able to pay me only because of the settlement I GAVE HIM for the divorce.
Sounds like a bitter woman-hater. Especially with the line "Most women want choices for themselves only and agree only to things that benefit them. Not men." If a man doesn't want children, wear a condom. Men have choices, too. But we all know how easily men are manipulated by sex so they are easy game for psycho females.
I agree with you passion
"Sounds like a bitter woman-hater"
My DH's sister is in arrears up to her eyeballs. No judge has ever let her off the hook. She irritates me a lot too about it. I posted about Thanksgiving weekend when I met her 2nd oldest son for the first time. She was saying how he won a 100 dollar gas card for selling a ton of pies and complained how he gave it to his SM. He said, "Well...she sold all the pies at work." And my SIL went on and on about how she should have gotten the gas card, when she has done NOTHING financially, and not much motherly for her kids. MIL was irritated for sure. I simply said, "Well, if SM sold all the pies at work..." Then my SIL started backtracking, realizing I'm a Custodial SM. But she is the epitome of deadbeat mom. She had the nerve to complain too when her 15 yo stayed with her several mos and hoped to move back with her, that her ex wouldn't just sign over custody and stop the current CS. I met him around then and he told me that he knew that A- his daughter would be back b/c SIL didn't have utilities or food half the time, and B- he's mostly being paid arrears right now anyway- like 70 percent of the check is from arrears.
Anyway, I think this video was a bit too propaganda/biased and not enough actual data/stats/studies/quotes which I'm sure exist somewhere. Too vague and definitely appears to be made by someone angry rather than trying to inform. I do think there's a need to bring out this issue, but the format turned me off.
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert
The laws
Actually are quite fair between men and women. I know many women who have to pay CS and they have the same obligations that any man has.
CS is not unfair, it's an obligation. We have to take care of our children.
Child Support becomes unfair
when only the person paying the child support is contributing to the finanical being of the child. In our case H pays all of his son's portion at his mom's house and all at our house. We have him just 24 days shy of half the year and H pays his child support on time every time, pays insurance for child, pays for extra activities, buys the school clothes and supplies..that is all for at mom's house. Now when SS is at our house he has nice room, toys, bike, clothes, xbox, goes on vacations, gets taken to the movies and other activities. Who is helping H pay for all the things at his home for his son well nobody he is. Ask how many vacations SS mom has taken him on...none Ask how many movies SS mom has taken him to see ....none Ask how many activites SS mom does with him...none. So here we have H holding up his son at his mom's and his house plus when with us he does all those other things for SS and BM does nothing but take the money and send SS to us looking like dirt and smelling like a dirty ashtray.
Now I am all for both parents taking care of the kids emotionally, financially and other wise but why is it that men are always considered to be the ones that will pay tooth and nail if a divorce/split/breakup occurs? What about the mom she should pay just as much. In many cases the child support laws are very unfair. There are many mom's out there doing the right thing and many dads doing the right thing. there are also many mom's and dad's doing the wrong thing. Nobody said it was not an obligation because it is. It is the BM's who use their child for that paycheck that make it unfair.
I notice in your information you are a biological mother... do you have stepkids? do you have an H that pays child support? you may be the BM that receives child support... every situation is different.
wow I've been on there for the last 1/2 hour
reading all the comments and posting my own. I agree with 90% of what was said, the last part about abortions got a bit out in left field for me though.
I have to agree, given my experience and what I see on this board. I think CS is gender biased. Our lawyer told us to expect to shell out thousands to get hundreds from BM over the course of the next 3 yrs until SD is 18. Plus the hassle of chasing her around, filing contempt motions etc when, of course, she didn't pay the measly pittance she would be assessed b/c she's a stay at home mom with two small children. Her choice mind you! I'd love to see, had our situations not changed, what would have happened if FH and I had a baby, and he decided to be a stay at home dad. "sorry BM, no more CS, I've decided to stay home and care for my child." Umm yeah, like that would fly, because somehow mysteriously, when SD came to live with us, all of a sudden in BM's estimation it costs NOTHING additional for us to support her, whereas when the same child lived at her house, it cost over 900 a month. Basically she has NO financial responsibility for this child, and he has all of it. Everything I've read on this board backs that up too.
Yes, since SD has come to live with us, our bills have gone up. Our grocery bill, and our electric bill mostly. But 900 dollars??? NO way in hell, not to mention the fact I actually feed this kid decent food, fruits, vegetables, and not ramen noodles, peanut butter and jelly and microwave pizza like her POS mom, so naturally my grocery bill will be more than hers anyway.
Totally not fair.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
NS I think this makes a big point though
"....given my experience and what I see on this board...."
Given those things I think all BMs are borderline bipolar sexually promiscuous drug addicts.
But they're not. I think we all see a somewhat small picture on our site, b/c if everything were happy and perfect we wouldn't be here complaining/venting/seeking help.
So there are a ton of people doing it well I think. I am pretty sure our cases are the exceptions. But a lot of men are really torn up about paying, even those who are well off and can afford it.
Even DH was bugged about it and his amount was fair given all BM had to buy with it. I think CS does need to be revised.
"When you take charge of your life, there is no longer need to ask permission of other people or society at large. When you ask permission, you give someone veto power over your life." ~Geoffrey F. Abert
True but
the media pays far more attention to the deadbeat DAD issue than it does to abuse of CS and unfair sexism in the system.
Yes, if things were good, we wouldn't be here, but also there are also many people who haven't thought about looking online for this. Plus there's a whole side of this unaddressed on this site, what about the men who don't have a partner and are dealing with the outrageous CS alone? They and the children are the victims!
How many single men are out there, working two or three jobs to even put a roof over their heads and pay the CS? That's how my man was before me. It was my support and income that allowed for changes to occur, without that, I have little doubt things would be exactly as they were.
The system is gender biased, and it's kind of sad that the only attention these issues get are on a textfile on youtube and on our message board, while Oprah is commiserating with the stereotypical poor single mom and playing party to the villainizing of the noncustodial dad....
I think the issue of deadbeat parenting, no matter the sex of the parent, is deplorable. But just as the assumption lies in many states that the mom should have custody, so too the idea that she can't afford to pay and gets more leniency. It's this attitude of "there there dear, you're just a woman, we all know you can't get a decent job and pay for the kids you had, so don't sweat it, pay it when you can, if you can, if you feel like it." As a woman, I find it offensive.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
ok
IMO and from personal experience - if a father does not take care of his child(ren) he is a bad father but if a woman does not take care of her kids its because the father does not pay enough child support.
Are you kidding? I hope so.
Are you kidding? I hope so. Sure that happens, but there are plenty of moms who dont take the best care of their kids... just read the blogs here for a few examples.
I said In my opinion and
from personal experience. I am not kidding! I have been accused of wanting more child support just to be greedy from a father who pays no attention to his son who is 17 years old. According to him, it is my fault he does not have a relationship with our son - not like he ever tried - but that's another story. I am the bad mother, b*tch, money hungry, etc according to my ex-husband because he is broke cause he has to pay child support and medical which he only pays when he gets caught not having it at work.
My kids are well cared for and want for nothing except stuff they don't need anyway. I know other mom's who get ample support but their kids are dressed in basic rags and they are getting their nails done every week and when you ask them why the kids look that way they reply - There father does not pay child support or pays very little and I know that is not true.
I cant watch the video from
I cant watch the video from work, but I do have opinions on the subject.
CS laws, and more specifically how they are enforced absolutely favor women. But, they are in place because of history and precedent.
As divorce became more common and CS became a larger issue laws were put in place to support the mother and children. Largely at the time women were not full time workers any where near the percentage of today. Women had significantly less earning potential as well and would not survive without financial support.
The laws became stricter due to some fathers working around the system, finding ways to avoid paying, or simply not paying. The average family guy paid the support, but a fair percentage worked the system.
Also statistics showed that the average woman with children had a significantly lower standard of living after divorce, while the average man experienced an increase.
Today women have a better education level and higher earning potential. Men are more involved in their children’s lives then in past generations. The equality between the sexes, while still unbalanced overall, is still significantly closer than ever before. The attitudes of people tend to slowly catch up with reality, and the courts are even slower to respond. The laws may be equal, but the way they are interpreted and enforced are definitely not. Men have a sever disadvantage in family court simply because they are men. That is beginning to change, and hopefully will continue to even out.
One thing I believe is that men are responsible for their children, regardless of the circumstances. The condom broke? That is always a risk. She wont get an abortion? Too damn bad.
Men who have children they currently support should not expect to get a lowered CS payment if they go on to have more children, in most cases. They knew their commitment before engaging in a new relationship and having more kids. That child doesn’t get less expensive to raise because a man decided to increase his burden.
My DW received CS from SDs father. Its been the same amount in for the last 10 years. If anything it costs MORE today. The father got married to a woman with a BD and no CS and had a BD together. He doesn’t get to pay less because of his choices and put more burden on my family as result.
Someone mentioned that if their DH decided to be a stay at home dad then BM wouldn’t get CS. I don’t think that would fly in court. The court assigns a CS amount based on their earnings and earning potential. If a man chooses to flip burgers to spite his ex and not have to pay a greater amount because he made a good wage the court isnt going to allow this.
Many men still work the system, and many BMs work it as well. The courts look at things broadly because it is too difficult to accurately assess every individual case.
Where courts need to be more flexible is when there are economic downturns. A man who looses his job today for example also looses a significant portion of his earning potential due to job availability and lower salaries for new hiring positions in most areas.
Most of the people here tend to have unreasonable situations, which is why they found this place.
I am biased as I was raised by mom who had 4 kids and my father is a deadbeat alcoholic. He worked jobs under the table for years to avoid paying. He had and has nothing so what would my mother gain by taking him to court, which she had no money for. Perhaps he would have been jailed, but that wouldn’t help her and she thought it would hurt her kids.
I have my own daughter who will always be a priority for me and I will always make sure she is taken care of. Could my DW become a crazy BM many of you deal with? Its possible I suppose but I think the crazies many here deal with are not the majority by any means.
Sorry for the long reply… I didn’t know how to keep it short, this was my abridged version as is.
msloan
"Someone mentioned that if their DH decided to be a stay at home dad then BM wouldn’t get CS. I don’t think that would fly in court. The court assigns a CS amount based on their earnings and earning potential. If a man chooses to flip burgers to spite his ex and not have to pay a greater amount because he made a good wage the court isnt going to allow this."
that was me who wrote that, but it was in the spirit of true MA sarcasm.
Of COURSE that would not fly! but for BM, it does. SHE can stay home and breed and chose not to work, and get out of paying CS. Our recourse is to spend thousands of dollars in an uncertain hope of getting a couple of hundred out of her a month, if that, and pulling teeth every time to get it. SD is 15 yrs old, it's not even WORTH the time, effort or stress for what I figured to be less than 8K we'd see between now and when she turns 18, in fact it would probably cost more than that!
I think this is grossly unfair. Worst of all is BM's sense of justice in this situation. She has NO sense of responsibility, in fact with all this custody stuff the very first thing was always "well I'm not paying CS" She doesn't feel like she should have to! WHY is that okay!?!!?
I'm 32 yrs old, and I don't have a baby. Why? Because at least at the outset, I want to stay home with my child. We can't afford that right now, so it's not happening. But BM is doing exactly that, and not caring for the kids she already has while sitting on her butt and having more kids she can't afford to take care of. It's just not right.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein
I skimmed the replies so I
I skimmed the replies so I missed the sarcasm. I am well versed in MA sarcasm. Been in it all my life. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment, but there are people who think that way.
Your BM is a living example of how things are unbalanced and unfair, and someone working the system.
no problem :)
sokay, a lot was said!
I think smurphysmile's comment was in the spirit of perception, not actual truth too.
I knew you were from MA, I was born and raised there myself, have lived in CT for almost 2 yrs now, and still miss it like crazy.
"you can take the girl out of MA, but you can't take the MA out of the girl" it's as true for our state as it is for any!!!
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." Albert Einstein