Meta question on the tendency of advice on ST
Forums:
I've only been a member for 2.5 years, and I don't frequent this forum much between stepcrises. So I could be way off, misreading, etc. Plus, I don't ask for advice much, myself, and mainly come here to vent.
So my questions is, has the tone of advice dispensed here changed over the past couple of years? I have the impression that nowadays we are telling people to RUN, or at least disengage, quite a bit faster than was the case in the past. Have we grown bitter and jaded? For my part, every time I see a woman, particularly a young woman, post a complaint here, my first reaction is always to tell her to DTMFA. Am I alone in having become increasingly impatient over the past months, with my own BS as well as everyone else's?
Just askin'.
Not really. I have been here
Not really. I have been here for nine years.
I had to look it up. I am
I had to look it up. I am relatively new here, started in December. So I am a bad judge of the tone. Its definitely a fine line to walk when asking/giving advice. Ive had a largely positive experience thus far. after a few months of reading, I find myself spouting things that are similar, but only because I feel like I have found the words to my feelings.
I have seen it go through
I have seen it go through cycles. I lurked for years before joining. I've seen times where it seemed to be very "stay and work it out" and then it swings to "leave immediately!"
I think I have the
I think I have the acronym.... Does it have to do with ditching?
"Dump," actually. But I think
"Dump," actually. But I think you get the idea.
}:)
That's your surprised face? I
That's your surprised face? I figured it was a response to skid's latest contribution to the human comedy.
Could be the same thing, I suppose.
" ... a lot of women end up
" ... a lot of women end up here because actually their husbands are bad marriage partners. Problems with skids are symptoms ... "
Yeah, that's probably true. Reading around here, I often find myself thinking, and sometimes commenting, to the effect, "That could happen in any marriage, with or without skids." Disney Dads and PAS can be a problem in intact families, too. Take it from me. And oh, dog spare us all from Daddies enmeshed with their little girls, whether you're the BM or the SM looking on in horror. Screwed up behaviors tend to be pretty much the same whether in a first or xth marriage. They just get complicated by such step life enhancements as visitation, CS, fights over who sits next to whom at weddings, and on and on.
Anyway, thanks for your comments. And shout outs to all here. May we all continue to keep one another sane.
I had the same thought. I
I had the same thought. I wish I had heard advice like this before I got married.
My ex was my first marriage and he swore he only married his first wife because she got pregnant. So you promised forever to someone you didn't really want to be with? So you REALLY mean it now? How am I supposed to believe you when you obviously lied to your first wife?
HL, I think this is one of
HL, I think this is one of the most powerful things I have ever read here. Thank you for writing this.
If this whole new job thing doesn't work out, you could easily start your own relationship blog. I would definitely read it.
Wow. A-ha moment. Nicely put.
Wow. A-ha moment. Nicely put.
Very true. I catch myself
Very true. I catch myself advising women to do things I wish I had done in my sham of a marriage. Instead, I stayed way too long and suffered way too much.
You and HL are very perceptive.
When I joined 3 years ago...
When I joined 3 years ago... or is it 4 now? Can't even remember, OC advised me to disengage.... and gave me the disengagement link.... ever since I've posted that link millions of time, cause it helped me and my relationship allot...
some poster told me to run, why do I stick with SO.... I moved out lol - thus running, I've told people allot... move out, keep your sanity and own place and keep your wallet closed, guess because it's working for me... but it might not be working for other people
If I see a 24 year old dating a 40 year old with pre teen or teen children, I say run like hell.... really why would you mess up your changes of being the first wife with some one who already did the walk? It's just stupid in my view...
OC: Orange County? He told
OC: Orange County? He told me that no matter how great the sex was, I needed to think about how I wanted to live my life. Was this it? Living in fear of SD? Afraid of her explosions ... kow-towing to her horrible behavior? Exposing my BS to SD nonsense? Buying into SO's wishful thinking that I would swoop in and fix everything while he disappeared into his office?
I was taken aback because at that time I was one of those "positive spin," fantasy kumbaya, women. I thought that I recognized OC from a different forum (FUGLY Horse of the Day) and likely took his comments more personally, but haven't heard a peep from him in a few years.
When Anika mentioned folks who made an impact on me here on StepTalk, Orange County was the first that came to mind.
I wish I came here sooner and
I wish I came here sooner and you could have told me to run, run, run! Of course I probably wouldn't have listened. Sigh.
Denial is a powerful thing.
Denial is a powerful thing. I wouldn't have listened, either. I wanted to believe that my situation was different and that it couldn't possibly be as bad as these women said it would be. Um, yeah... It really is that bad.
A couple more thoughts on
A couple more thoughts on this.
Disney Dadding and PAS are not the entirety of the problem. I firmly believe that a big part of it is the fact that when there is a remarriage with skids you are forcing unrelated people into a competition for finite resources,, in this case of time and money. (In another thread someone mentioned the jealousy of little girls fearful of losing their Daddies' protection. This is very much to the point here.) This sounds austere and deterministic, but think about what happens in polygamous societies, for example, when multiple women and their children are forced to share one man. It's a setup for interpersonal warfare, which from most reliable accounts I'm aware of is precisely what ensues.
True, what occurs in Western remarriages with skids is not precisely the same, but it's not entirely dissimilar, either. What I so often read here, and what I feel, is atavistic, gut-level loathing, which frankly I think is built in to the situation. Disney Dadding, PAS, strength of vows and on and on are just stories we tell ourselves about what's going to happen regardless.
I think the tone changes with
I think the tone changes with the amount of time a person has been on here. I've been on ST for more than 5 years and I know that I have a much more pessimistic outlook than I did in the beginning. Thus, my advice is very often to tell women DO NOT JUMP RIGHT IN AND GET MARRIED!
I am a firm believer in the "oxygen mask" approach to life. Just like they tell you on airplanes, you need to put your own oxygen mask on first, even before your children ... not because it is selfish, but because if you ALL want to survive you need to be fit to assist others.
I agree that fighting over resources and time can be one of the biggest hurdles to steplife. Adults should be self-supporting and should not fully depend on anyone else's income.
And after all these years, I think that in step situations, finances and resources should be separate and should stay that way. Even if you do eventually decide to get married. Even if you are in a truly good situation now, that can all change - even when the skids are adults.
Being financially independent may actually be beneficial to the relationship - if you KNOW you can survive on your own, it makes deciding to stay a true choice. It's not because you have no other option and are financially forced to endure all the BS.
I find a lot of the advice
I find a lot of the advice given is advice that we wouldn't take ourselves. That is why I am hesitant to offer any. Sometimes in step situations, we are the blind leading the blind.
People tend to forget that a
People tend to forget that a lot of people come here to VENT, not FIX a situation.
This^^^ is why I don't usually spend a lot of time typing out paragraphs and paragraphs of advice, most people don't really want it. Usually, people already know how to fix the situation, they just don't want to (or they know that it can't be fixed). And I get that, it's hard to up and leave when you have combined your life with another person.
Like 2Tired said, it's best in the beginning of these situations to take the time to REALLY get to know the SO and the dynamic that you are getting into and that takes longer than it does in "normal" situations.
Some situations can change and some can be fixed, but PEOPLE rarely change, which is why I think the advice tends to lean towards LEAVE, at least in the cases of horrible treatment and disrespect. If the SO or spouse has no respect now, that is probably not going to change.
You really hit the nail on
You really hit the nail on the head about spending a lot of time on advice - I've learned over the years to get a good sense of which posters REALLY want input and which ones just want sympathy for the bad choices they've made and continue to make. The latter category I now avoid.
Can't tell you how many times myself and others have posted lots of thoughtful advice and the OP never even returns with a response. They get the truth they really don't want to hear and then they disappear. Maybe to return a few years later with a different name and a whole host of new problems because they chose not to take any of the advice they asked for!
I’ve been on this site for
I’ve been on this site for almost a year now, but this is my first post. Just wanted to say that -good or bad, I have been enlightened by all the advice/stories/vents offered here. It has really put things in perspective for me, and allowed me to change some of my behaviors in order to save my sanity I have also realized that I don’t have it NEAR as bad as others, and I should probably thank my lucky stars! I appreciate all of you.
I really love this site. I
I really love this site. I did a lot of browsing before posting and it does seem slightly more "negative" in the recent years compared to the oldest posts. Wisdom takes time?
People could have shouted in my face to run (when I met DH at 23). I never would have listened. I was head over heels. One of my close friends recently entered a relationship with a man with a young son and deadbeat BM -- I have given her complete honesty about how difficult it is and how you truly cannot even imagine to toll it can take when you are in the "honeymoon phase."
Sometimes I come here to vent, commiserate... just hear someone say "me too, AJ." It feels good. Other times I really want to hear opinions, however hurtful and varied. Some of the responses have hurt my feelings and obviously those were (mostly) the ones that contained the most truth. DH is an addict (in recovery) with 2 kids, of course I should run... fast and far.
At the end of the day, we do what we feel is right at the time and while we are doing that, we lean on each other for a little bit of support, whether it be in the form of tough love or not.
I think we don't want others
I think we don't want others to make the same mistakes we have made. We want to save someone the pain we have gone through. If I'd stumbled onto this site 10 years ago (and I wish I had, believe me), I think it would have woken me up to some of the incorrect assumptions (it will get better) and wishful thinking (I can change this/them/whatever) and saved me alot of trouble. I warned a friend about to get married what she was in for. They have not been married 6 months and already deep in counseling. Teenage witch SDs will do that to you. For many, many years I would not date any men with kids from a previous marriage. How foolish I was to think that that a man with 3 grown children from a previous relationship not living at home would somehow be different. If anything, they are more "stuck" as fully formed adults and completely determined to undermine our marriage at every opportunity. Even with SDs Borderline Personality Disorder and SS ongoing drinking problem, I realize I don't have it as bad as others. Heading for the hills seems like a worthwhile direction, especially around the holidays but the rest of year, I get my guy pretty much year round and if he wants to have dinner with them or spend part of a holiday, fine by me. It doesn't mean I'm going to paste a grin on my face and hang out while not-so-veiled insults fly my way. Hell, who wouldn't advise a newbie to run the other way? Some of these posts are absolutely horrific!