Need a little advice and support.

Forums:

Hi everyone. I'll start this off by saying that I'm absolutely heartbroken while I'm writing this so I apologize if this goes off topic once or twice. I just need some support and advice.
Yesterday, DH and I lost joint custody of his 6YR son when we stood a very good chance of keeping the custody as it was or getting sole (according to his lawyer)
The BM has a wrap sheet a mile long for a number of things, and even admitted to the court she was drinking again. She was caught in several lies through the divorce process in court. She has several DUI's and is considered a felon because of multiple issues of theft, drug use and forgery.
BM would make up ridiculous stories about me taking SS out of state alone and even taking him to camp in a sewer. An actual sewer! BM brought this lie up in court along with several other attacks on my religion and my age (I'm fourteen years her junior). I have custody of my biological son due to his abusive father and have no criminal record or even a traffic ticket and DH is clean as well. I held a good job for years and even went to college while raising my son alone before I met DH. Despite what she tried to say about me, I'm a law abiding citizen that just happens to have another religion besides Christianity which she is claiming to be apart of. Of course, I never spoke about it with my SS and would never say anything negative about any religion to anyone. She accused me of brain washing him and casting spells on her son. I'm a Wiccan but do not incorporate any sort of witchcraft into my beliefs. I would never harm anyone for any reason and I'm very private about it all.
DH has to work, so I stayed with his son and went to all the parent teacher conferences that she refused to go to and that's not the half of it. He missed almost every school day she was responsible for and SS never missed a day when I took him. She used the fact that I was involved to win custody of SS even though DH was very much involved and oversaw everything even when he couldn't physically be at the school because of his job. DH was the one taking care of SS when BM was passed out drunk daily. He got up with him, fed him, got SS away from BM when she would go on violent drunken rages. I could go on and on about the terrible things she has done and is doing, but that would take too long. We went from seeing him a week at a time to now every other weekend. She also doesn't have to pay any of the debt she racked up in DH's name and gets half the equity on the home.
I can't help but feel responsible because she used me for her entire case against DH. She even had me called into court to testify when I didn't want to get involved... DH swears up and down that this isn't my fault and he really doesn't blame me at all...
I guess what I'm asking is if anyone else has been in this situation before. How did you handle it? Did it ever get easier? Do dad's ever have a chance of winning custody?

You poor thing...I'm sorry

You poor thing...I'm sorry but you're the victim of our puritan court system.

It seems like there really is

It seems like there really is no such thing as a non biased judge. I guess I put too much belief in the truth being what's important...

So very sorry for what you're

So very sorry for what you're going through. I, too, lost custody of my only daughter and get to see her during school breaks and summer only. I truly wish the best for you two. Try not to beat yourself up over it. If DH doesn't blame you, don't blame yourself. It's not your fault!!!!

Yes, dads have chances of winning custody - my ex has my daughter due to me moving around a lot and her going to the court saying she wanted a stable life with him. She was 11 at the time. But, and I don't know if this is any comfort, she and I rebuilt our relationship even despite the distance between us (she's in MI, I'm in CO) and we have a better and healthier relationship now than ever before.

I wish you and your DH the best...

Thank you so much for the

Thank you so much for the kind words and I feel for you and your daughter. I really appreciate the kind words and it does make me feel good to know that despite everything you still have a strong relationship with her. I know that in the end, that's what is important. We just hope that she can stay stable and sober for SS's safety. I hope all is well for you and your family as well.

No worries. If my life's

No worries. If my life's story can help anyone in any tiny way, I'm more than happy to share.

I do hope that YOU do for YOU though. You have to put yourself first otherwise you'll never be happy. I learned that the hard way!

Yes, we celebrate nature and

Yes, we celebrate nature and even have a 3 fold rule that states we are to harm none and I take that bit very seriously. The state I live in though (down south) has a fear of anything other than what is considered normal. Thank you for the support, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it right now. This site has been such a blessing and has so many good people involved.

Did they give a reason for

Did they give a reason for their decision? It seems a little off to me.

It seems off to us as well,

It seems off to us as well, that's why we were so taken aback by the decision especially since we were already awarded joint custody to begin with. The only explanation we got was that the judge felt I was more involved with SS than DH was which isn't close to the truth. He just has to work and I'm at home because were expecting a baby in soon. She dressed herself up for court saying she was reformed and had strong Christian values which couldn't be further from the truth. We think the real reason was my religion because she built her entire case off of it. Where we live, the state favors mothers heavily and frowns upon anything other than "normal" religious views. The judge is an active member in our small town church.

It sounds like there are two

It sounds like there are two bigs things going on here:

1. You were around/parenting SS more than his father was. If you were being the primary "parent" for SS while in DH's custody, then it honestly makes more sense for SS to live with his mother. He should have ONE parent at least who's caring for him.
(I certainly hope she gets help for her drinking, though!)
2. You're a witch. When I was reading your post, all I could think when you wrote that she used your religion against you was that you had to be a witch, since I don't think judges get in a twist over mainstream religions. Yep, you're Wiccan. That's a HUGE deal to some people. I know, for me, as a mother, that I would fight to the ends of the Earth before I'd let me kids be raised by a witch. Sorry, it may be "intolerant" of me, but as a parent, that's my right.

I'm sorry that you're upset over losing custody. I hope the child still at least has visitation with his father. Him losing this case isn't entirely about your religion, so don't be too hard on yourself. Many orders have the "first right of refusal" clause which states that if one bioparent can't watch the kid, the other bioparent gets "first dibs" at the time...before grandparents, stepparents, etc.

Dun dun dun

Dun dun dun duuuuunnnnn.....

Pass the popcorn please...

Seriously?? You think what I

Seriously?? You think what I said was that awful???

Didn't say that... Just

Didn't say that...

Just have a feeling it's going to start an interesting debate.

Oh, ok. The funny thing is OP

Oh, ok. The funny thing is OP just posted saying the explanation they were given was my fist point.

If the kid is going to be with dad, then dad should be doing the parenting. Not SM.

Hey.... Sharing is caring

LOL!

LMAO!

Thank you for the reply, it

Thank you for the reply, it brought some clarification as to what the judge may have been thinking.
What bothers me about it though, is that she was once a Wiccan herself and only within the last few months changed her viewpoint. Of course, she denied this. That is entirely her decision and I would never fault her for it, though it is suspicious. She was friendly to me, supportive and even gave me some of her old reading material concerning the Wiccan way. The sudden change and attack is what bothers me.

I have to ask... HOW does she

I have to ask... HOW does she know what religion you are?

I think she is saying that BM

I think she is saying that BM used to be Wiccan... not the judge.?

And that BM had given her reading material on the "Wiccan Ways". ??

yes, im sorry the BM used to

yes, im sorry the BM used to be wiccan

When she wanted to get along

When she wanted to get along with me, she was telling me about herself and her past letting me know that she was a wiccan at one point. So, being foolish and naive I told her that I was also a wiccan... looking back at it now, it was probably all a ploy that ended us up here. DH knows it was now because of her past and what she used to believe in before this court date.

Ah. Sorry. You're learning a

Ah. Sorry. You're learning a tough lesson, and one I still struggle with.
I always remind myself...talking less is more. I tend to overshare IRL and then I kick myself for it.
Yeah...it sounds like Bm was running a little recon on you... now you know not to trust her.

What is the new CO? Joint legal? Visitation?

Yes, I'm a very trusting

Yes, I'm a very trusting person and just honestly wanted to be friendly to her. Now I see though that it just isn't possible so I've cut off all contact awhile ago after one of her violent rages VIA text. The new CO is visitation every other weekend and we're just trying to figure out how to handle it. We've already made a pact awhile ago not to respond to anything that wasn't absolutley necessary. We tried being friendly with her but she makes it impossible.

haha, I wish it worked that

haha, I wish it worked that way! She already thinks I cast spells, fly on a broomstick (ridiculous, she actually lied about that in court too) Maybe she will make up a terrifying story that will scare her enough to keep away from me

If the OP isn't projecting

If the OP isn't projecting her religion onto the kid, it shouldn't matter what religion she practices.

Just my opinion...but how can something be a factor in a custody battle if it's NOT a factor in the kid's life?

Now, if OP IS projecting her religion onto the kid - that's a different story and I would retract everything I just said.

^^^^THIS^^^ I was sitting

^^^^THIS^^^

I was sitting here wondering how I would handle this. Me, being a Christian and all... how would I react if ExH married a Wiccan or some other religion for that matter.

I would not want to punish my kids and take them away from their dad altogether. I think I would have to have it laid out in detail that she is not to project her beliefs on my kids. That is about all I could do, ya know? I can't control who ExH falls in love with. And if she is good to my kids, then so be it.

Which sounds like that case here. I don't read that she is educating skid on her religion, just that she IS Wiccan, and that is all.

She claims that she was

She claims that she was always christian and that she is raising her son as a christian now. Which wasn't the case a few months ago. She has a criminal record, so she had to look squeaky clean and took advantage of the fact that my religion wouldn't be approved of. I would never project anything on SS she just took one thing I said and ran with it.

Have you received a court

Have you received a court order yet? How old is the child? Do you both live in the same school district? Are there other questions that they asked you about besides your religion during the court hearing? Judges are strange at times and you never know what is going to stick with them when it comes to arguments and what they hear in court.

We just had the final court

We just had the final court date yesterday when the judge granted the divorce and handed down his judgment. Our lawyer says we should receive a court order in paper soon. SS is 6.
The weird thing is, she subpoenaed me to testify on her behalf hoping that I would hang myself on the stand, but her lawyer never called me in to testify. I just sat there. DH made it seem like no big deal when he was questioned about it (and thats all they really asked him about the entire time) because I don't even talk to him much about it and we're guessing her lawyer didn't want me to confirm the same thing. He just wanted the drama of what she said to stick with the judge, im guessing. I don't talk to SS about it and would never come in between anything she wanted to teach him. She lives in another town about 15 miles away and she wanted him pulled out of the school he's been at for two years to go to this other school.

I honestly think that the

I honestly think that the fact that you were "parenting" and not DH was the biggest factor.

This was their DIVORCE? Not a custody modification??
Well, then... that's an even bigger problem. The parents were MARRIED (until yesterday) and you are living with the father and handling his parenting time. SMH. If dad was going after custody, he should have not had a live in while married AND handled his own parenting business, imo.

Wicca has nothing to do with that.

We thought it wouldn't be

We thought it wouldn't be considered that I was living with him because for half a year before I came along, she was living with the boyfriend she cheated on him with and had the boyfriends baby right when i entered the picture. The boyfriend took a lot of the parenting activities because shes never around or isn't sober. I suppose that was wishful thinking though that it would cancel each other out.

I swear, people should need a

I swear, people should need a license to procreate. All these people making babies when they're married to other people. Kinda makes me sick. SMH

Well... if dad ever wants to try the custody thing again, make sure HE is the one who handles his child. I will tell you, though...that changing an existing court order is much harder to do than getting the original order.

We just had the final court

I was afraid of that but I

I was afraid of that but I guess there is no way to change it. DH told me he wouldn't change a thing and was happy SS had a good female role model for awhile. I think I'll kick myself forever for revealing that about myself but DH insists that if it wasn't this, they would have found something else to lie about or blow out of proportion.

You come across as genuinely

You come across as genuinely caring and thinking of this childs best interests. But i have learnt the hard way that unless there is a risk of likely and significant harm to the child its best to leave all parenting to mum and dad. All a child wants and needs is parenting from his / her parents - even if they are separated. That's why us SM's get our fingers burnt when we run around trying our best to be helpful 'saving' poor child from perceived irresponsle BM! To be honest - reading this i can see how ive pissed of BM in the past.

How is the child taking this? Visits once a fortnight is not what you thought was best for him but at least dad is still in the loop here and HE needs to take the lead on parenting when SS is with you. I think he sounds quite 'watery' to be honest - letting you reveal your 'Wiccan' status in his child's court case - and I imagine he is older than you?

I'm so very confused how your being 'Wiccan' came to be ANY issue at all here if you are as 'contained' about it as you say, ie. you never mention it to SS? Yet it is so much part of your identity that you have spoken about it to BM?! And you felt committed enough to this belief to take it to a court hearing! This is very shortsighted - come on! It was never going to be embraced or understood! I know you are feeling bad so don't want to make you feel worse but your holding onto these beliefs is going to continue to be a problem! Really you are making it sound like your committment to being a wiccan won't affect or influence SS at all, but of course they will! The very fact that they have come up in court means they are already on the table and affecting SS. How important is it to you to describe yourself as Wiccan? I would seriously suggest a reconsider - or denying involvement now, putting it down to a phase or something - this will always be a problem. Sorry - but if me and DH split and he got with a woman claiming to be Wiccan I would be very unhappy!

How is that even legal?

Hopefully I don't live in a state like that. I would lose my kids being an atheist.

I'm not sure how it's legal,

I'm not sure how it's legal, really.
We live smack dab in the middle of the bible belt. Most people here won't admit they aren't a Christian because they're afraid of the back lash. I don't have anything against Christians, most of them are wonderful people but sometimes it's hard. If she hadn't have brought up my religion, the judge would have kept joint custody. Thats the only thing she talked about the entire time.

You come across as genuinely

I'm so very confused how your being 'Wiccan' came to be ANY issue at all here if you are as 'contained' about it as you say, ie. you never mention it to SS? Yet it is so much part of your identity that you have spoken about it to BM?! And you felt committed enough to this belief to take it to a court hearing! This is very shortsighted - come on! It was never going to be embraced or understood! I know you are feeling bad so don't want to make you feel worse but your holding onto these beliefs is going to continue to be a problem! Really you are making it sound like your committment to being a wiccan won't affect or influence SS at all, but of course they will! The very fact that they have come up in court means they a already on the table - id say reconsider or say they were only a phase - even if you continue to have these beliefs in private after - you are protecting DH and SS - as most people just arnt going to respond well to this.

Thanks for the reply. This

Thanks for the reply. This was all revealed long before our court case yesterday and when she realized her felony record and relapse (alcoholism) would get her into trouble, she remembered our conversation and ran with it. It wasn't brought up until the final court hearing. At the time, I was trying to be friends with her and she told me she was once a Wiccan so I stated that I was as well. I didn't go into any detail but I didn't think she would go this far with it so I didn't see the harm. Looking back, that was extremely naive but I thought nothing of it because she stated she still believed in the same thing and practiced it at one time and even gave me some of her old books on the subject. Sure enough, a month before the court date she was a reformed woman and had denied any association with the religion even though DH and I know it's a lie. It is the only thing she had in her case that went in her favor, her felony record is a mile long and she got in trouble for it before I came along. That's how joint custody was established by the judge the first time.
We never took it to court (my religion) and never spoke about it with SS, she took that one short conversation and ran with it, all of it being lies. She subpenaed me but they decided not to make me take the stand.

SS isn't handling the new situation well but right now all we can do is be a neutral ground for him and be there if he needs us. I have definatley learned my lesson about sharing anything and I should never have tried to get to know her and be friends in the first place...but I was trying to make the best out of a bad situation. Lesson learned, I will never be involved again because I just don't think it's possible. I will never regret loving SS though, that is one thing I can say I did right.

I feel for you with your

I feel for you with your illness being used against you, I couldn't imagine being put into that situation and how it would feel but thank you for sharing. I hope all goes well with you and your family though. Does DH still have some custody of SS6?

OK well there is a lot going

OK well there is a lot going on here. First, you are calling him DH when, until yesterday, he was married to someone else which is very confusing. I am also assuming that is the first court order? Was the joint custody (I am again assuming physical custody) a temp or mediated agreement?

So you live in the Bible Belt. He is cohabitating with a Wiccan, while still being married to his wife, and he is not doing the parenting while the child was at his home?

I feel like the inital post was a bit misleading. This is not your DH, and you and he did not lose custody. He was designated as the non custodial parent during his own divorce trial. You could not have waited to cohabitate until after the divorce? I feel like he really shot himself in the foot here...is there any way your SO can motion for a reconsideration? What was his lawyer's response to this?

I apologize if it was a bit

I apologize if it was a bit confusing, I'm new to the site and still getting used to the abbreviations but I will start using SO from now on so that I can be more clear. It's a very confusing and emotionally trying time and I could have elaborated a bit more, but I really just needed a space to vent and hope that someone would understand.

This is the second court order that the judge handed down, the first being joint custody after some mediation failed. They went to court a few months before I met SO and this was decided. She was fine with this original agreement while he was single and before I came into the picture. She was living with her boyfriend at the time and pregnant with her boyfriend's child when this was handed down and SO was granted joint custody due to her felony record. However, before they signed anything I came to live with him and she wanted to go back to court and that's where he lost joint and she was given sole custody.

If I am not being clear with all of that, please let me know. There is a lot going on and it may be hard to covey through text. I don't mind explaining or being given clarification because again, I am very new to this and my divorce/custody was very different.

You're right, we should have waited to move in together but we thought that her already living with her boyfriend and having a child with him would cancel that out. We even asked his lawyer and he said it shouldn't have any bearing on what the judge had already decided. We were so happy that we didn't stop to think about what repercussions that may have. We simply settled into family life and were enjoying being happy and watching our children be happy.

SO was very involved with his son when he was home and he works a 7-5 job. I did what I could during the day and even helped BM out when she asked me to. She asked me to go on his field trips, help with his homework etc. That was only when she was having a good day though and this was also when I was still trying to be friends. She wound up using that against me though saying that SO wasn't involved at all which couldn't be further from the truth. He had to work. Was he supposed to quit his job and stay home? I think they would have used this against him if he had tried that. When she works during the day, the BF watches him.

As for a reconsideration, his lawyer advised us not to push it any further and wait until she does something to put her custody in question. He said with my religion and how big of a deal she made it, we wouldn't get far with out proof that she couldn't handle the responsibility.

You are here

Need a little advice and support.