We are in this situation and my SD is only 3. SHe is being PAS'd so bad that she is terrified to be in our home. We have her on video saying that BM tells her not to come, that she gets in trouble when she comes to our house, BM tells her not to like it here, etc etc.
We trying to figure out what to do with this either. With SD being so young she is not a reliable source but we know she' telign the truth because on the flip side with her being so young she would have to hear this from somewhere she can't be making it up.
SD is starting therapy for some behavioral/psychological issues she has been diagnosed with. We are going to show the videos to the therapist and get her opinion on how to fight this somehow.
We can't tell BM because she will be pleased that her plan is working and that SD doesn't like it here so we always play perfect family as far as BM is concerned and try to show SD that we aren't evil. The PAS is mostly geared to me but lately it has been falling hard on DH too.
SS10 has fallen into the behaviors by it. It's not just about showing when they are that "brain washed." We have always set examples, but he's 10. His mom fails to give us report cards and he tells us when he arrives that it's his fault because he didn't give the report card to mom when we ask if he's gotten it. We tell him it's his mom's fault, not his and ask her for it and she blames the child.
SS10 now hates his father and coming to our house. Why? No good answer given. SS10 has been known to have fun with us, but then BM calls and he gets sad, depressed and distraught saying it's time for him to go home to her. He then says he doesn't like us or seeing us. He lashes out, physically and verbally.
This is not the SS I met when he was 4 years old. He has turned and changed within the past year of living with his mother to a child I don't know or recognize. Failing grades, talks of suicide. Of course, BM blames all on us because she does no wrong. Yet, she is never home and leaves SS10 to look after 3 younger siblings while she goes out with various men. When she does get home there's different men in the house in BM room each week.
DH has been taking the "high road" with skids for about 4-5 years now. It isn't working. They are getting worse and worse. They don't speak to him. They don't want to visit. I think the only chance he has is if they get out in the real world and out from under BM and maybe they will see what was going on. Even then, I think it's doubtful.
Our situation is worst- case scenario. Three kids, 2 so PAS'd they have no contact and BM is working on the third. DH was always trying, sending them letters (he didn't even have their cell numbers) and gifts for special occasion but after a nasty x-mas reply to a letter and gift I think he has just let go.
Interestingly, since he has let go BM has initiated contact. She actually called him last week. He didn't answer but very odd.
All three of ours are adults but BM has crippled them into complete dependence upon her.
My DH did everything humanly possible, and still lost both of his kids to PAS. If you're up against a high-conflict, personality disordered BM (or BF) there's really not much hope. I'm sorry, I hope that's not your case.
Oh boy....reading this pretty much made me lose any hope I had left for my DH to used PAS as an argument in his upcoming case.
SD is 12 and in the past year things have gotten very bad. She lives out of state, he has not gotten to see her in over a year, he gets to talk to her on the phone next to never. If she feels like answering or returning a call. He has gone 45+ days without talking to her, then they talked on a little more regular basis an it is starting up again where she doesn't answer and they don't talk. She does poorly in school, is in a million activities that interfere with visits and school, false allegations have been made on more than on occasion...I could go on for days on all the drama in the past 9 years.
How are you supposed to maintain a "meaningful relationship" with a child who lives out of state? The parenting plan is garbage and BM has never followed it because she thinks she is above the law. When he has had SD its for maybe 6-8 weeks out of a year, no regular phone contact, no emails, no letters, no Skype. When she is here BM is on the phone with her calling and texting 24/7. There are issues hanging in court in 2 separate states. I get the impression that the courts really do not care. They have no idea what the best interest of the child is.
Oh boy....reading this pretty much made me lose any hope I had left for my DH to used PAS as an argument in his upcoming case.
SD is 12 and in the past year things have gotten very bad. She lives out of state, he has not gotten to see her in over a year, he gets to talk to her on the phone next to never. If she feels like answering or returning a call. He has gone 45+ days without talking to her, then they talked on a little more regular basis an it is starting up again where she doesn't answer and they don't talk. She does poorly in school, is in a million activities that interfere with visits and school, false allegations have been made on more than on occasion...I could go on for days on all the drama in the past 9 years.
How are you supposed to maintain a "meaningful relationship" with a child who lives out of state? The parenting plan is garbage and BM has never followed it because she thinks she is above the law. When he has had SD its for maybe 6-8 weeks out of a year, no regular phone contact, no emails, no letters, no Skype. When she is here BM is on the phone with her calling and texting 24/7. There are issues hanging in court in 2 separate states. I get the impression that the courts really do not care. They have no idea what the best interest of the child is.
PAS can be beat. With constant diligence, zero tolerance, full disclosure and facts. That is what we used to beat the Sperm Clan in to submission and to prepare the Skid to protect himself from the manipulative bullshit of the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool for the rest of his life.
The high road/straight stick method is only a small part of the comprehensively brutal, complete victory strategy that it took for us to win. My wife and I raised SS in an intact successful, two graduate degreed professional income home, participated in his education, with his teachers, coaches, friends, activities, and set the example of a mutually respectful, committed, loving, passionate, and involved marriage, and raised him with rules, and behavioral expectations. He has turned out very well.
Facts, truth, full disclosure and sharing of the records with the SKid, informing the SKid of everything in an age appropriate way and never, ever, allowing even a small manipulation to go unchallenged with fact. We started this total confrontation of the Sperm Clan manipulative PAS bullshit early in our marriage when the Skid was 2-3yo. As the SKid got older we exposed him to the facts and expanded the information we exposed him to as he got older.
Never badmouthing the opposition is part of the high road which we did take. We thought we were diligent in not badmouthing the Sperm Idiot but learned fairly early little ears hear and After an initial lesson to us when he was ~2yo-ish we never badmouthed the Sperm Clan again. Bio Dad called our house once to once again try to reconcile with my bride because "I miss my family" and to try to get her to deal with Sperm GrandHag rather than working with her directly on CS and visitation travel. After DW shut him down he asked to speak to the Skid. She called the little guy over and put him on the phone. In a bright happy voice SS said "Hi Daddy DickHead!!!" I shot milk out of my nose over that one. Fortunately DickHead and the Sperm Idiots first name sound very similar particularly over the phone when spoken by a 2yo.
After that it was first names only when referring to anyone in the Sperm Clan.
As SS grew up we had many, many, many episodes of PAS from the Sperm Clan. He would come home from visitation angry at us for hating THEM and forcing CS, not allowing more visitation, etc..... Each and every time we brought out the records, facts, etc......... By the time SS was in his mid teens he was researching the facts regarding their manipulative bullshit himself. We would find him in our home office with the Custody/Visitation/Support file drawers open and him digging through them. If he could not answer a question for himself he would talk to us about it and together we would work it out.
Now at 22 SS has for the most part put the Sperm Clan behind him. They do try to manipulate him periodically with the favorite tactic being to blame him for the problems his three younger also out of wedlock Sperm Idiot spawned half sibs by two more baby mamas struggle with because the money spent on SS's CS would have made the lives of the younger spawn better. They try to get SS to send money but he refuses. They try to guilt him into visiting them which he will do but only if they pay for his flights. He has flown out on his own dime once when the elder younger brother got arrested for carrying a concealed hand gun. SS put the Sperm Idiot against the wall by his throat and informed him that if any of the three younger ones were ever arrested again for trying to live up to the Sperm Idiot's gang banger goals that SS would be back and would beat the Sperm Idiot into a coma. He also put his then 16yo little brother against the wall and gave him clarity that if SS had to come back other than to visit that the 16yo would rue the day. They had not informed Sperm GrandHag of the arrest so SS gave Sperm GrandHag the facts with the hope that SGH would come down on her idiot son and GS with both of her very large toothless idiot feet but SGH lived up to her usual PASing control freak drooling blame my bride and SS bullshit. SS let her know in no uncertain terms that none of her grand children by the Sperm Idiot were unaware that she was the cause of the Sperm Idiot's abject failure as a man, father, son, and human being. SGH went into stuttering apoplexy as SS got in his rental to drive to the airport.
Of course if the blended family opposition is reasonable then they should be worked with. However, if they are PASing evil idiots they should be destroyed.
No quarter, no respite from having their asses barred publically, socially, in their Church community, professionally, legally, and without a break. No toxic slant, just facts. And the SKids should be fully informed of the facts of the PAS behavior of their toxic parent.
Obviously the earlier in the Skid's live this can begin the better but regardless of the age of the SKid(s) it must be done when they are saddled with a toxic, manipulative, PASing, POS parent. The quality parent in the Skids life has to declare unconditional war against the PASing parent to protect the SKid and prepare them to deal with the PASing parent until that parent is justly dead and gone. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Has anyone tried filing a contempt motion for interference with visitation? I'm wondering how little the system has changed in 25 years. I went through PAS as a child, it worked on my sister who has no relationship with my father and never has despite being 30 yo. I, on the other hand, despised my mother for interfering and keeping me from my dad. I left home at 15 and despite being reunited with my dad at that point, I blamed him for the abuse, loneliness, depression, etc. And for not getting me out of my mother's house. I got legally emancipated at 16, spent years struggling with low self esteem, anger issues, depression and heroin addiction. It took me some time to deal emotionally but my dad kept all of the court paperwork. He showed me the $15K in lawyers fees, the countless motions for custody and more visitation, the pictures of how my mother dressed us in rags stapled to canceled checks for thousands per month and a house that was paid off before they even divorced. Eventually my dad and I resumed our relationship and he was my best friend. I'd spend hours on the phone talking to him and would talk to him 3 times a day, which at 20+ years old my friends teased me for. Sadly, my mother's interference hurt both me and my dad, who was happy to talk to me for hours.
Ironically enough, the judge who denied my dad's motion for full custody of me, who ignored his concerns and who told him the only thing he needed to be concerned with was paying child support was the same judge I ended up in front of on a felony prescription forgery charge.My dad, who was in the court room, almost lost it. Even though I've since managed to get my life together, I've never forgiven my mother. Had she just let me go, I'm pretty sure I'd have ended up being a lawyer which still makes my dad sad. He tells me I deserve a better life than the one that I've lived.
I really wish that judges were forced to see the impact of their decisions.
We are in this situation and
We are in this situation and my SD is only 3. SHe is being PAS'd so bad that she is terrified to be in our home. We have her on video saying that BM tells her not to come, that she gets in trouble when she comes to our house, BM tells her not to like it here, etc etc.
We trying to figure out what to do with this either. With SD being so young she is not a reliable source but we know she' telign the truth because on the flip side with her being so young she would have to hear this from somewhere she can't be making it up.
SD is starting therapy for some behavioral/psychological issues she has been diagnosed with. We are going to show the videos to the therapist and get her opinion on how to fight this somehow.
We can't tell BM because she will be pleased that her plan is working and that SD doesn't like it here so we always play perfect family as far as BM is concerned and try to show SD that we aren't evil. The PAS is mostly geared to me but lately it has been falling hard on DH too.
SS10 has fallen into the
SS10 has fallen into the behaviors by it. It's not just about showing when they are that "brain washed." We have always set examples, but he's 10. His mom fails to give us report cards and he tells us when he arrives that it's his fault because he didn't give the report card to mom when we ask if he's gotten it. We tell him it's his mom's fault, not his and ask her for it and she blames the child.
SS10 now hates his father and coming to our house. Why? No good answer given. SS10 has been known to have fun with us, but then BM calls and he gets sad, depressed and distraught saying it's time for him to go home to her. He then says he doesn't like us or seeing us. He lashes out, physically and verbally.
This is not the SS I met when he was 4 years old. He has turned and changed within the past year of living with his mother to a child I don't know or recognize. Failing grades, talks of suicide. Of course, BM blames all on us because she does no wrong. Yet, she is never home and leaves SS10 to look after 3 younger siblings while she goes out with various men. When she does get home there's different men in the house in BM room each week.
I want SS10 out of this environment. But how?
DH has been taking the "high
DH has been taking the "high road" with skids for about 4-5 years now. It isn't working. They are getting worse and worse. They don't speak to him. They don't want to visit. I think the only chance he has is if they get out in the real world and out from under BM and maybe they will see what was going on. Even then, I think it's doubtful.
The high road didn't do us
The high road didn't do us any good. Your approach is the one I wish we would have taken.
Our situation is worst- case
Our situation is worst- case scenario. Three kids, 2 so PAS'd they have no contact and BM is working on the third. DH was always trying, sending them letters (he didn't even have their cell numbers) and gifts for special occasion but after a nasty x-mas reply to a letter and gift I think he has just let go.
Interestingly, since he has let go BM has initiated contact. She actually called him last week. He didn't answer but very odd.
All three of ours are adults but BM has crippled them into complete dependence upon her.
My DH did everything humanly
My DH did everything humanly possible, and still lost both of his kids to PAS. If you're up against a high-conflict, personality disordered BM (or BF) there's really not much hope. I'm sorry, I hope that's not your case.
Oh boy....reading this pretty
Oh boy....reading this pretty much made me lose any hope I had left for my DH to used PAS as an argument in his upcoming case.
SD is 12 and in the past year things have gotten very bad. She lives out of state, he has not gotten to see her in over a year, he gets to talk to her on the phone next to never. If she feels like answering or returning a call. He has gone 45+ days without talking to her, then they talked on a little more regular basis an it is starting up again where she doesn't answer and they don't talk. She does poorly in school, is in a million activities that interfere with visits and school, false allegations have been made on more than on occasion...I could go on for days on all the drama in the past 9 years.
How are you supposed to maintain a "meaningful relationship" with a child who lives out of state? The parenting plan is garbage and BM has never followed it because she thinks she is above the law. When he has had SD its for maybe 6-8 weeks out of a year, no regular phone contact, no emails, no letters, no Skype. When she is here BM is on the phone with her calling and texting 24/7. There are issues hanging in court in 2 separate states. I get the impression that the courts really do not care. They have no idea what the best interest of the child is.
Oh boy....reading this pretty
Oh boy....reading this pretty much made me lose any hope I had left for my DH to used PAS as an argument in his upcoming case.
SD is 12 and in the past year things have gotten very bad. She lives out of state, he has not gotten to see her in over a year, he gets to talk to her on the phone next to never. If she feels like answering or returning a call. He has gone 45+ days without talking to her, then they talked on a little more regular basis an it is starting up again where she doesn't answer and they don't talk. She does poorly in school, is in a million activities that interfere with visits and school, false allegations have been made on more than on occasion...I could go on for days on all the drama in the past 9 years.
How are you supposed to maintain a "meaningful relationship" with a child who lives out of state? The parenting plan is garbage and BM has never followed it because she thinks she is above the law. When he has had SD its for maybe 6-8 weeks out of a year, no regular phone contact, no emails, no letters, no Skype. When she is here BM is on the phone with her calling and texting 24/7. There are issues hanging in court in 2 separate states. I get the impression that the courts really do not care. They have no idea what the best interest of the child is.
Look for books and Web sites
Look for books and Web sites by Amy J. L. Baker. Excellent resource.
Also check out the links in the Wikipedia article on PAS.
PAS can be beat. With
PAS can be beat. With constant diligence, zero tolerance, full disclosure and facts. That is what we used to beat the Sperm Clan in to submission and to prepare the Skid to protect himself from the manipulative bullshit of the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool for the rest of his life.
The high road/straight stick method is only a small part of the comprehensively brutal, complete victory strategy that it took for us to win. My wife and I raised SS in an intact successful, two graduate degreed professional income home, participated in his education, with his teachers, coaches, friends, activities, and set the example of a mutually respectful, committed, loving, passionate, and involved marriage, and raised him with rules, and behavioral expectations. He has turned out very well.
Facts, truth, full disclosure and sharing of the records with the SKid, informing the SKid of everything in an age appropriate way and never, ever, allowing even a small manipulation to go unchallenged with fact. We started this total confrontation of the Sperm Clan manipulative PAS bullshit early in our marriage when the Skid was 2-3yo. As the SKid got older we exposed him to the facts and expanded the information we exposed him to as he got older.
Never badmouthing the opposition is part of the high road which we did take. We thought we were diligent in not badmouthing the Sperm Idiot but learned fairly early little ears hear and After an initial lesson to us when he was ~2yo-ish we never badmouthed the Sperm Clan again. Bio Dad called our house once to once again try to reconcile with my bride because "I miss my family" and to try to get her to deal with Sperm GrandHag rather than working with her directly on CS and visitation travel. After DW shut him down he asked to speak to the Skid. She called the little guy over and put him on the phone. In a bright happy voice SS said "Hi Daddy DickHead!!!" I shot milk out of my nose over that one. Fortunately DickHead and the Sperm Idiots first name sound very similar particularly over the phone when spoken by a 2yo.
After that it was first names only when referring to anyone in the Sperm Clan.
As SS grew up we had many, many, many episodes of PAS from the Sperm Clan. He would come home from visitation angry at us for hating THEM and forcing CS, not allowing more visitation, etc..... Each and every time we brought out the records, facts, etc......... By the time SS was in his mid teens he was researching the facts regarding their manipulative bullshit himself. We would find him in our home office with the Custody/Visitation/Support file drawers open and him digging through them. If he could not answer a question for himself he would talk to us about it and together we would work it out.
Now at 22 SS has for the most part put the Sperm Clan behind him. They do try to manipulate him periodically with the favorite tactic being to blame him for the problems his three younger also out of wedlock Sperm Idiot spawned half sibs by two more baby mamas struggle with because the money spent on SS's CS would have made the lives of the younger spawn better. They try to get SS to send money but he refuses. They try to guilt him into visiting them which he will do but only if they pay for his flights. He has flown out on his own dime once when the elder younger brother got arrested for carrying a concealed hand gun. SS put the Sperm Idiot against the wall by his throat and informed him that if any of the three younger ones were ever arrested again for trying to live up to the Sperm Idiot's gang banger goals that SS would be back and would beat the Sperm Idiot into a coma. He also put his then 16yo little brother against the wall and gave him clarity that if SS had to come back other than to visit that the 16yo would rue the day. They had not informed Sperm GrandHag of the arrest so SS gave Sperm GrandHag the facts with the hope that SGH would come down on her idiot son and GS with both of her very large toothless idiot feet but SGH lived up to her usual PASing control freak drooling blame my bride and SS bullshit. SS let her know in no uncertain terms that none of her grand children by the Sperm Idiot were unaware that she was the cause of the Sperm Idiot's abject failure as a man, father, son, and human being. SGH went into stuttering apoplexy as SS got in his rental to drive to the airport.
Of course if the blended family opposition is reasonable then they should be worked with. However, if they are PASing evil idiots they should be destroyed.
No quarter, no respite from having their asses barred publically, socially, in their Church community, professionally, legally, and without a break. No toxic slant, just facts. And the SKids should be fully informed of the facts of the PAS behavior of their toxic parent.
Obviously the earlier in the Skid's live this can begin the better but regardless of the age of the SKid(s) it must be done when they are saddled with a toxic, manipulative, PASing, POS parent. The quality parent in the Skids life has to declare unconditional war against the PASing parent to protect the SKid and prepare them to deal with the PASing parent until that parent is justly dead and gone. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
It worked for us.
Has anyone tried filing a
Has anyone tried filing a contempt motion for interference with visitation? I'm wondering how little the system has changed in 25 years. I went through PAS as a child, it worked on my sister who has no relationship with my father and never has despite being 30 yo. I, on the other hand, despised my mother for interfering and keeping me from my dad. I left home at 15 and despite being reunited with my dad at that point, I blamed him for the abuse, loneliness, depression, etc. And for not getting me out of my mother's house. I got legally emancipated at 16, spent years struggling with low self esteem, anger issues, depression and heroin addiction. It took me some time to deal emotionally but my dad kept all of the court paperwork. He showed me the $15K in lawyers fees, the countless motions for custody and more visitation, the pictures of how my mother dressed us in rags stapled to canceled checks for thousands per month and a house that was paid off before they even divorced. Eventually my dad and I resumed our relationship and he was my best friend. I'd spend hours on the phone talking to him and would talk to him 3 times a day, which at 20+ years old my friends teased me for. Sadly, my mother's interference hurt both me and my dad, who was happy to talk to me for hours.
Ironically enough, the judge who denied my dad's motion for full custody of me, who ignored his concerns and who told him the only thing he needed to be concerned with was paying child support was the same judge I ended up in front of on a felony prescription forgery charge.My dad, who was in the court room, almost lost it. Even though I've since managed to get my life together, I've never forgiven my mother. Had she just let me go, I'm pretty sure I'd have ended up being a lawyer which still makes my dad sad. He tells me I deserve a better life than the one that I've lived.
I really wish that judges were forced to see the impact of their decisions.
I started law school at the
I started law school at the age of 30 and want to specialize in family law. you can still do it