Married into father with 3 adult children
HELP! I’ve been with my husband for two years and just recently married him. Two of the adult children moved with us (oldest daughter and the youngest son). I helped them where I could, provided advice, support them emotionally or financially (ie helping with filling out documents; paying for airline tickets to go to school; paying for u-haul etc). Now they have moved out after a few family fallouts betwen all of us. Their dad told them, it’s his decision that they move out. He told them “We recently married and I want to spend time with his wife without my adult children). They both (oldest daughter and son) found a place and live together. Now the calls are more frequent from oldest daughter to their dad - she calls him 2-3/ day and when she calls at night and I’m around she doesn’t want her dad to put her on speaker phone. Seeking constant advice on everything in her life, to the point on how the new couch should be in the living room, should she buy this new coffee table etc.... it bothers me that she calls him for everything, bothers me that not once has she asked how I’m doing,it bothers me, she gets conversations with him and ensuring I’m not part of it, bothers me not once has she asked my advice, or even text or call, it bothers me she asks if she could see our will. I feel hurt. I feel like an outsider. Regardless of what I thought was support,love it’s been forgotten. When voicing it to my husband he doesn’t understand why I get upset that they talk to each other every day, I feel I’m not involved and wanted in their relationship.
Tell your husband how you
Tell your husband how you feel- that he said he wanted to spend time with you and that the calls are becoming intrusive. How he reacts is important- because talking to an adult 2/3 times a day every day is excessive and if he doesn't see this you're in trouble. However, talking to them once a day is maybe not too bad as they only just moved out and you shouldn't expect them to want to speak to you at all- why would they? You are the cause of their moving out, as they would see it. Wanting to see the will is too much too- she has no right to do that. You are now his next of kin- however leaving them out entirely seems harsh- but it is up to him.
I think you need to tell him how you feel and gauge his reaction- then find yourself something else to do except worry about this- they are no longer in your home and that is the way it should stay. You shouldn't need to be ' involved' in their relationship.
I read both of your postings.
I read both of your postings. I'm picturing a father who never really allowed his children to grow be. Didn't prepare them for , well, being adults for when the time came they were finally adults.
I also get the picture that you expected too much on the SM role being these children are and were adults (are at least age wise suppose to have been) when you came along. You said none were younger than 24, so I am assuming the other two are perhaps 26 -30. Where is the children's mother? I'd think which coffee table and where best to arrange sitting in the living area would be more of a female question. If I asked my husband which table to buy, I'd get a 'oh, whichever one you like best, honey' (all the while him thinking to himself, who cares, pick one).
You need to focus on your husband and your new marriage. They are all finally out of the home (keep it that way) and they are quite old enough to figure out a form document all on their own. It's a rare form that doesn't have an online instruction sheet these days.
And speaker phone? Really? Why? ask your husband to limit his phone calls during your evening times and weekends. Times where you are both usually home and enjoying each other's company and relaxing. What your husband is trying to tell them, about how he needs to focus on he and his wife now is correct.... except the words are coming out of his mouth and are not being backed up by his actions. Being available for the phone calls repeatedly all day and then entertaining them with the silliness they are calling for i not backing up what he saying he wants.
Don't waste your time trying to be overly involved with these adult children. It's something you will regret and it' a thankless job even attempting it. They are not little children , nor even teens. They have become far too dependent somewhere over the years on their father. Most adult children coming out of college are anxious to start their own lives. Sure, they still want to see and stay in contact with family, but not be so emotionally dependent on their parents and/or need to speak multiple times a day to merely function.
You mentioned in one of your post that DH just doesn't get what the problem is in his kids calling daily to him when you call your own mother every day. But there is a difference. Your mother isn't twenty something. I imagine you call your mother every day or a couple times a week to just check on her and that as an older woman,is just doing ok. My mother is eighty something, and yes, I check in with her a couple times a week.
Have you considered marriage counseling? Sometimes a third party can help sort out what a couple needs to focus on, not focus on and what areas the couple needs to work on. It can help open up lines of communication and how to share your feelings.
I'm not clear on why you feel
I'm not clear on why you feel you need to involved in every little aspect of his relationship with his daughter? Even in an intact family a kid might call one parent and speak to them without asking about the other parent. Why does she need to include you in everything?
My DH sees SS18 for dinner here and there, and texts with him periodically and I can promise that SS has never asked about me. Why? He doesn't care. I don't expect him to, even though he likes me.
Let go of trying to control how many times a day he speaks to her and about what. You will quickly get huge resentment from both him and your SD. Be grateful he kicked them out of the nest to spend time with you, and that they don't make your life hell. If his calls to her intrude on your time together, tell him that, otherwise, stop micromanaging his relationship with his kids.
I talk to my
young adult children at least once a day. DH (stepdad) does as well but he has been in their lives since they were preschoolers. Neither lives at home but they ask advice, just call to chat, and sometimes they need a favor or help with life decisions, even minor ones.
I do question why his adult children would not be allowed to see your (joint) will as stated in your last post. That is fairly typical as children and parents get older. We had to remind my in-laws to update their will as DH was set to go live with his aunt and uncle (they hadn't updated it for two decades) and we were fully involved in the process. Same with my mother. The adult kids have seen the will DH and I have as well. Having had a parent pass away without a will and having to make some decisions as the eldest child (my mom was devastated) I can tell you that it is easier to know what is wanted and how to proceed.
Here's the deal: they didn't
Here's the deal: they didn't want you, they only want him and had to take you to have him.
Now that you aren't a package deal, they have no need for you.
I completely understand how you feel. I went through this too. It's hurtful and unnecessary (at least from our points of view). But it's not going to change.
I like that your husband had the nerve to push them out. That's a plus. This resulting thing isn't great, but in a roundabout way, your husband set aside a life for you that is free of them and that's a good thing. The problem is, his kids know he wouldn't have moved them out if he weren't remarried, so regardless of what reason he gave for asking them to move out, they know you are the source of the change. You will always be the outsider and that's just the way it is. It's not your fault, it's not their fault. You came late to the party, that's just the reality of it.
So give up the idea of being the skids' go-to person for advice, niceties, etc. They do not need you for that and you're fighting their natural resentment toward you merely for being the second wife. I know this isn't how you wanted it, but you're in a better situation than many, so try to change your baseline expectation for how things will be. Put the skids on the level of your husband's coworkers -- you know they exist, sometimes you hear something about them, but they are separate from you.
I'll tell you...the sooner you lower your expectation of how things could be to how they are, you'll have more peace.
After all these years, I've come to realize the "step" situation is not natural nor normal. It cannot be a normal relationship with other adults who happen to be related to your husband. It just is what it is: a bunch of people thrown together because two of the people fell in love. That love doesn't go beyond the two people involved in it.
As for the constant calls, see if they die down after she's settled in more. If not, you might have to set some boundaries: no calls at dinner, during movies, during dinner parties.
After issues early in our marriage about SD calling all the time, we went to therapy. The therapist told my husband at SD's age, she should be calling once or twice a week, not three times a day. But my husband couldn't say "no" to SD, so my husband took SD's calls underground, so now he sneaks around the house trying to talk to her without me knowing. But he also knows better than to answer her calls when we're in the middle of a party anymore. It's humiliating that he acts as if I don't exist to her and she doesnt' exist to me, but to hell with it. It's more realistic than everyone acting like they care how the other person's day was. No one cares how I'm doing, no one cares if my dog is on his death bed, no one cares if I had a bad day. That's reality.
And about that will...
...um, no, the kids don't need to see their father's will. I'd nip this in the bud.
It would be interesting to know what reason SD gives for wanting to see his will. But that aside...
Ideally, he would tell SD, "Don't worry. I'm not going to leave you with any unpaid bills. There's enough money to cover my funeral expenses and all our bills, so there's nothing in my will for you to be concerned about."
THIS approach sets a boundary: his finances are his business, not his kids' business. It also sets the expectation that they are not inheriting and shouldn't count on a big windfall when he dies. It is his money and he is still alive, so they need not know what's in his will.
As a courtesy to you and them, he might tell them any living will arrangements so they know his wishes and what to expect -- you have power of attorney, or he's requested certain procedures not be done to save him. But the money side of a will is your business with him, not theirs.
Having these expectations
Having these expectations from your SD will set you up for disappointment every single time, so don't do it. I get it, you tried to develop a good relationship with her but unfortunately she doesn't feel like engaging with you and only requires her father. Be grateful that you are not involved in any of this and allow your H to deal with it. If the constant contact between H and SD bothers and interferes with your life with him, speak up and ask him to do something about it.
The good thing is these kids are out the house, now disengage and don't care so much about what their interactions are with their father. If you let this go, your life will be so much more peaceful and stress free.
Thank you all for your advice
Thank you all for your advice. To give you more context. Their mother is not stable. She had an affair, they went to court, they divorced. Then one day she knocked on the door and told him she couldn’t take care of them. My HB took care of them and two years later met this other women, she was part of their lives for 15 years. Since my HB and I are together, I’ve been hearing about it for the last two years on how this women was narcissistic etc... I came into their lives as the 3rd women and I know I have been scrutinized, judged, compared all those things. I can’t change what happened in their past and I do have empathy. So here we are, summary, I’m the third one coming in their lives and there’s a lot of history which would explain the insecurities, the resentments etc, The SD is about to become a lawyer in about two years so feels she can be involved legally with her dad’s affairs. I don’t agree that she needs to see the will. If either of us pass on, it goes to the other, if we both pass on it goes to HIS kids. We have voiced that and that’s enough information. You’re all correct by giving me the advice, not to have expectations and step away from their dynamics HB and SDs and SS. I have voiced to my HB that it’s nit normal a lawyer to be having to call her dad for decisions. What will she do when she’s representing a client, she can’t call her dad while in trial.... he knows she has insecurities and lack of confidence. My advice to him, let her make the decisions don’t give them. He said that he does tell her “why are you asking me” her reply is I look up to you. I do believe even though he denies it, he loves the empowerment, the attention and the feel good to help. I in the other hand left home at 18 and had to make my life decisions and I don’t get this... I’ve never seen this type of dynamics between father and daughter. I have been with two exes that had a daughter and never experienced this with them. This is a first.
Yea, I hear ya.
Yea, I hear ya.
I'll tell you exactly what will happen: your SD will graduate and be a viper in the courtroom, but won't even be able to pick her own nose without Dad's input.
That's because it's not about her being indecisive or confused. Your SD is building intimacy with your husband by asking his advice on everything -- it forces his involvement in her life. It's like the kid screaming, "Dad! Dad! Watch me dive! Watch me swim the length of the pool!" while the adults are trying to have a conversation. And the way you know this is what's happening is that your husband ALSO thinks it's weird that she's asking him advice on which sofa or tampons or dress to buy.
Per my therapist, it would be good if your husband broke that pattern right now. The more he replies, "Honey, I don't know which tampon to buy. Why don't you ask your girlfriends," the more she will realize he's not playing along -- that forces HER stand on her own and figure it out. It also tells her to go lean on friends for support rather than her father (this is word-for-word what our therapist told us about transitioning my 25yo SD to adulthood). If your husband just plays along with her pretend neediness, they are all just playing a game of awkward dysfunction. At least your husband recognizes SD's out of line asking him for advice on stuff he doesn't care about, but I also know that flip side that he loves to be needed by his little girl. Warn him she will never grow up if he panders to the damsel drama.
It's eye opening, isn't it?
I was SHOCKED at how my husband "parented" SD.
No matter where they went or what they did, my husband always let SD make all the decisions from the time she was a little girl -- what movie to see, when to go, what food to eat, whether to drive or take the train...originally, I saw it as a harmless off-shoot from the days when it was just them after he divorced. But after a while, I saw the other ways this manifested: I realized SD is now 31 and she STILL calls all the shots instead of saying, "What movie do you want to see, dad?" She still feels he's just there as her audience, to listen to her fascinating stories about her office politics, and that gives her more license to resent that he has a wife now-- how dare he have needs outside of her??? My SD doesn't see my husband as being a human with needs and moods and disappointments. Little children see parents their parents as only there to attend to their needs or wants. Most of us grow out of this, but if someone doesn't, they become big children who expect to call the shots and have all their parents' attention. Your husband can't continue playing along.
It's kind of a weird dynamic, don't you think, that this girl who can't buy a sofa for herself now wants to give you legal advice???
Based on that alone, I can tell you the next chapter you'll be facing: as SD gets a taste of professional life, she will become an odd hybrid Wonder Woman/Daddy's little damsel, wildly swinging from one extreme to the other, but now occasionally advising him on everything from his health to his legal issues to how he spends his time. Then you'll be competing with Daddy's Little Girl Who Always Knows Best. And she will be calling the shots for him, which will affect you. So nip this now.
In regard to this will thing, it's great that your husband told her no. But this is also an important moment for you to draw a boundary with your husband: tell him you found SD's request to see your will inappropriate and just the fact that she asked at all tells you she's "struggling with boundaries," so you really appreciate that you and he see eye to eye on the will issue. Let him know SD might drift out of line again in the future, and you'll need to meet assertive with assertive, so it might be good for him to make it really clear to her what her place is...you know...before it blows up on all of you. He needs to set her straight now so you don't have to.
This is all a very vague, non-confrontational way of saying to your husband that you don't like where SD went with the will business and you won't stand for more of it so he should deal with it before you do.
See, you need to set a boundary with him so you save yourself years of SD BS. Tell your husband right now that SD is out of line and he needs to check her. If he gives you any trouble, tell him you would never DREAM of asking SD to see her will -- this is not a line you want crossed with this person. Let him know how seriously you take her horning in on a really personal thing. When this happens again on any huge personal decision that SD is not part of, be it about you having children or you moving away after retirement, you want him to know right away that he is not to even entertain talking to his CHILD about this.
I didn't stand my ground when SD pushed her way into every aspect of our lives and it took years to break that cycle of her weighing in on everything from whether we buy a new house to where we go for vacation. I got so sick of biting my tongue and my silence only made SD horn in more on my life. So beware doing nothing can have harmful effects.
The best thing you can do for yourself is to disengage and don't give up any space to SD, not even an inch, because she will take a mile if she can get it. Do not extend any courtesy or kindness in regard to space because she won't think twice about taking your space if she can get it. Any space she oversteps that is verifiably out of her bounds, call him on it and raise holy hell. This will thing is a fantastic place to start. It's good that he said "no" to her, but he needs to know her even going there is a problem for you.
Anyway, the intimacy between these fathers and daughters is...disturbing. I was weirded out that SD recently asked my husband if he would be OK with her adopting kids rather than producing her own. Like, WTH? Who asks their FATHER that???
Their level of intimacy is really odd to me. When SD calls, I hear him ask about her co-workers: "Did Melanie's daughter have her baby yet?" as if he works there too! He knows details of all her friends' love lives, whose baby is already walking, and every ache, pain or twinge SD feels -- and there are a lot of them (SD's health takes up half of every conversation, although she's perfectly healthy).
What I noticed about the intimacy is how one-sided it is. She never asks about him, about our dog, about his work, his projects, his vacation...(that's why it's so ironic when she weighs in on something like whether we should buy a certain house or not.) He gets on the phone with SD and all I hear is silence on his end unless he's asking her some minute detail of her life.
Their dynamic really bugged me at first. I want SD (and all women) to be stand-up women who do for themselves and stand on their own and value their self reliance. But I soon learned SD's constant damsel-in-distress state is how SD keeps him hovering and buzzing around her. It's what she apparently feels she needs to keep his attention. The same with the Daddy's Little Girl act. These girls LOVE to identify as "daddy's girls." I find that term not only humiliating and self-indulgent, but sexist and obsolete. Other women LOVE the term and wear it like a badge of honor. Whatever.
Wow...long rant. Sorry about that. I think I needed that.
So much of this rang true
So much of this rang true about TheX and his screwed up daughter. Just before I met him she sold sex aids (you know the sort of parties I mean) and he even bought stuff from her. In fact he once brought me something in a bag with the brand name all over it- obviously got from her. (Not a sex toy I might add!) So glad I'm out of that weirdness...
marblefawn, we have the same SD...
So much of what you wrote is entirely relatable, particularly the part about SD talkig constantly about her travels, her, her, her, while daddy listens silently. Once he actually set the phone down while she was talking, went to get something to drink, and came back, picked up the phone and she was still talking. It reminded me of the teacher on Charlie Brown/Peanuts. "Whow, whow, whow..."
Self-promotion is a dead give away there are huge insecurities, as are constant picture postings on social media regarding what they're doing, where they're going, who they're doing it with...like you mentioned in your swimming pool analogy. Spot on!
marblefawn, we have the same SD...
So much of what you wrote is entirely relatable, particularly the part about SD talkig constantly about her travels, her, her, her, while daddy listens silently. Once he actually set the phone down while she was talking, went to get something to drink, and came back, picked up the phone and she was still talking. It reminded me of the teacher on Charlie Brown/Peanuts. "Whow, whow, whow..."
Self-promotion is a dead give away there are huge insecurities, as are constant picture postings on social media regarding what they're doing, where they're going, who they're doing it with...like you mentioned in your swimming pool analogy. Spot on!
Really, all you should expect
Really, all you should expect is that the skids are polite to you. Everything else is between them and their Dad.
It's fantastic that your DH had them move out so he could build his marriage. I don't think I've ever heard that here before. The next step is dealing with the intrusion of the phone calls into YOUR life. If he is taking their calls during dinner, or when you are on a date, or when you are engaged in conversation, then your problem is with HIM. Other than that, you don't get a say in how frequently they talk or what they talk about. Although I do agree with you that 2-3 times a day for advice on stupid stuff is troubling. But it's HIS trouble to address.
You ask him not to take phone calls that would interrupt your time with him. I had to do that very thing and it was HARD for DH because he jumps ridiculously high for his adult kids. Still is hard for him years later. And I agree that it's because he likes the attention and needs to be needed.
So, a lot of people here have
So, a lot of people here have given pretty good advice. This is my take:
Now that HIS kids are out of the house, they feel a loss of control, especially the daughter. Jealousy is afoot on both sides--theirs and yours, and that's natural. It isn't unnatural for grown kids to call their parents a couple times a day, so, unfortunately, you need to accept it with a pleasant smile on your face (not saying you have to like it). You don't want him sneaking around to take and make calls. She/they have zero right to know about the will. Their meddling mother has likely put the thought in their heads. Talk calmly with your husband about your concern about that and the need for boundaries. You aren't their mother and, frankly, you're not really even their friend. You're just a woman that their dad wanted to marry. They'll learn to respect you on some level if you don't try to be anything but polite when they're around. The likelihood of drama for the rest of your life is pretty high, so try to settle in and be ready for waxing and waning of it. It's nice that your husband had them move out. That's a very positive sign that he loves you and wants to try to make you as his wife, first. Best.