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Should we move away?

Mumma008's picture

Very long post (sorry)...

I have been with my DH for 7 years and I have 3 x SDs, SD1 is 30, SD2 is 28 and SD3 is 21. SD1 and SD2 are not his BKs. But SD3 is. He raised all three as his own though. He split from his ex a few years before we met. She was a serial cheater. 

We have since had BKs together, DD is 4 and DH is 2.

SD3 lived with us until she was 18. During the pandemic, I was pregnant with my son and as SDs mum lived 10 mins away, and SD3 was still socialising (not following the rules) and working with the public, we all agreed it was best she moved temporarily with her mum. She lost her head with us, had a tantrum / meltdown and directed a lot of abuse towards us, particularly me. The problem was, she was a covid risk. After moving in with her mum, she then caught covid twice and gave it to her mum and sisters and her mums boyfriend who was vulnerable, waiting for an operation! Moving to her mums place was my DHs idea, not mine. But she blamed it all on me. We simply wanted to keep her unborn sib safe from an invisible threat (covid). But she just had to make it all about her. I don’t think I’ve ever recovered from this. I still feel physically sick from all the pain she put us through, particularly the strain she put me under during a difficult pregnancy, let alone being petrified of a pandemic. 

SD3 has been a problem from the start. During the entire time we lived with her, she gave me the silent treatment and when she did speak, it was rude or aggressive. She never made eye contact, would leave the room when I entered. I’m ashamed to say, I felt bullied in my own home, by a teenager. We took her on various holidays, even before I moved in. She was absolutely vile. Throwing tantrums like a small child, spending the entire holiday with a moody face and snappy attitude. 

Other than a couple of ‘family meetings’ with her about her behaviour, I have never confronted her 1:1 on any of this. I do regret this, but I just don’t have the know how or confidence to do so. I play it over in my head but as soon as I’m in the moment, I freeze. I am genuinely scared of her erupting. 

When my DD was born, she became obsessive and possessive over her. Trying to push me out of every situation. Almost trying to take over parenting my baby, criticising me and rolling her eyes every time I spoke about the baby. I tried so hard to include her in all sorts of things, baby clubs, lunches, theatre and was always compassionate as she was now sharing her daddy with me and a new sib, but it was all a waste of time. I went back to work when my daughter was 1 years old and I remember sitting in the car outside my home, in tears, eager to get in to see my baby, cuddle her and breastfeed her to sleep, but equally dreading facing my SD3 and her vile possessive behaviour. I felt unwelcome in my home, always. It was hell. 

I try to be understanding of her situation. She’s not over her mum and dad splitting, obviously. She’s not got a great relationship with her toxic mother. Who is also very controlling and manipulative. I think SD3 is torn between not being able to trust women and the idea that being nice to me, would make her feel like she’s being disloyal to her mum. All three SDs had a turbulent upbringing as mum has serious mental health issues (she was sectioned twice). My DH basically raised them by himself. SD3 has had some therapy recently, but I haven’t seen any change in her behaviour.

She has just come back from 9 months travelling. We all hoped she would have matured a little. Nothing has changed. I think she’s actually showing narcissistic tendencies. It suddenly clicked for me the other day. She’s entirely self centred, controlling and manipulative. But more than the average teenager (well she’s 21 now). It’s always the SD3 show. She is completely obsessed with herself, posting on social media, pouting half naked all the time. Her social media accounts allow anyone to follow her. So complete strangers can view everything she posts. We have asked her time and time again, not to post pictures of our BKs on there. This is like a red flag to a bull though. She believes she can do whatever she likes. She secretly posts the pictures on her Instagram Stories, which we don’t have access to. But her sister, SD2 has shown us when we asked. We have explained the risks and also that we don’t want our children to be seen or identified by strangers. I truly believe she does it in spite, so she feels she has the power. 

I really fear for the influence she will have on my BKs, now and in the future. Her foul mouth, competitive behaviour, manipulation and neediness is starting to really turn ugly. She was holding my 2yo DS the other day and told him she loved him. She then ordered him to say it back, he didn’t. She got agitated and kept on over and over asking him if he loved her and ordering him to say it back. He just kept saying no. DS is very good talker, so it wasn’t that he couldn’t, it was purely that he didn’t want to, and told her so. It was so awkward and I just wanted to grab him off her and tell her to back off, he’s 2 !! But if I dared to do anything of the sort, she would explode like a volcano. She’s the same with my DD. She would run after DD and force her to cuddle her, even when she said no. She dyed her hair from blonde to brunette and kept telling her over and over that they have the same hair. I know this kind of sounds cute, but when you’re watching it happen, it’s quite scary and disturbing. I can see it makes my BKs feel uncomfortable and awkward as SD3 always approaches with a barrage of questions, but in a controlling manner. She doesn’t ask open questions as she only wants an answer that fits what she wants to hear. She told my DD she had a new job as a trainee dental nurse. She asked her if she wanted to be a dental nurse and DD responded with no. SD3 looks irritated and asked why not and my DD just shrugged. She didn’t ask what normal people would have asked! i.e. What do you want to be when you grow up? 

My BKs do adore their SDs, truly, but watching them in these situations is unbearable.

Any type of confrontation with her in the past would end up with me being entirely humiliated. Mainly as she always gets away with it, time and time again. DH doesn’t have any authority over her. There have never been boundaries. He also avoids confrontation with her. He guilt-parents all the SDs. SD1 and SD3 both speak to him with no respect, sometimes ridiculing him about his weight. He has never tried to address this. It’s bullying behaviour and totally unacceptable. But he just takes it because, he explains, you have a thick skin as a parent. I do understand this, but I absolutely would not allow my BKs to behave in this way. I am so worried that my children will witness this language and think it’s ok to speak to us like this. Monkey see - monkey do. 

Her mother and eldest sister are much the same. I’m no prude, but the language they use is completely vile. The way they dress is too, not leaving anything to imagination. Even when the SDs were young kids, they were dressed in clothing that was inappropriate and provocative. Apparently if DH tried to step in and set boundaries, ex wife would go ahead and undermine him anyway. 

SD2 has a totally different attitude. She actually tries to remove herself from all the drama, as she can see how toxic they all are. But they bully her and order her around to do chores for them at the click of their fingers. I get on with her really well and enjoy our connection. I wish I could have the same relationship with the other two. 

DH just puts his head in the sand, time and time again. He has on occasion tried to talk to her, but he is too soft, and allows her to manipulate and control him. Then she gets away with what ever it is she has done. He often defends her, as a father would and then anything I say to him goes in one ear and straight out the other as he's in defence mode. 

I’m currently discussing moving our family 40 miles away (with DH). This would mean changing my daughters school etc. I do love where we live and our house is our dream home, but I’m running out of ideas. Is moving away my only option? We can’t move any further than 40 miles due to work. But I feel I need some distance and the space to allow me to breathe. I’m having therapy (EMDR) to deal with some of the stuff she has done over the years alongside being raised by an abusive mother. So as you can see, this is all very triggering for me.

Every time I think about SD3 and what she has put me through, I go into panic mode. As soon as I hear she is coming round, my heart drops. I’m on edge for the entire time she’s here. My husband doesn’t notice half of what she does. She’s very discreet and calculating.

I have read some of the posts on here over the last few days and fear that there is no way out. I truly believe she is going to be that SD that cuts me out of seeing grandchildren etc and manipulate my husband to be at her beckoned call for the rest of his life. We can’t even go on holiday without a barrage of needy texts demanding attention from him 24/7. 

My BKs have SSs that are completely vile. I don’t want any of this behaviour or language being picked up by them. I also don’t want my kids being bullied or controlled by a narcissist. 

But my biggest fear…here goes… that SD3 will eventually try to turn my kids against me.

There you go… all out! Any advice welcome xx

 

Evil4's picture

You don't have an SD problem: you have a DH problem. He needs to grab his sack and get back in touch with his balls and stand up for his wife. I went through the same crap with my SD33 running the show and my DH being a coward when it came to her which ended up with me being sold out. I snapped and had a major come to Jesus meeting with DH several years ago and then again later on when he had a "relapse" and went all coo-coo over the mini-wife again. I made an exit plan and my DH was scared shitless that I was ending our 25 year marriage (now 27 years) and got himself and us into therapy. I went to my own therapist as well where I learned to not tolerate any more bullshit. 

I'm not going to lie. It's going to be scary. No matter what tactic you use, like moving, it won't work because your territorial SD will be sure to move to wherever you and your DH are to make sure you can never "have" your DH. You're going to have to confront your DH. It is on him to no longer tolerate abuse of his wife. And what your SD does is abuse. Your bios are witnessing their mum be abused, so they'll repeat what they know. That alone was incentive for me to require immediate changes or else. I couldn't bear the thought of our DD23 having a marriage like mine. Yes, you might risk your DH choosing to leave rather than stand up for his cow of a DD, but it's better than living your life like this. You'll never be rid of your SD. She will be sure to insert herself between you and your DH any way she can unless and until your DH gets in touch with his balls and puts a stop to the abuse of his wife. 

Mumma008's picture

Hi Evil4 - thank you for your response. I needed to hear this. Something that jumped out to me was what you mentioned about the mini-wife! I remmeber seeing another poster mention this as a syndrome so just googled it.... and OMG this is exactly her! She feels entitled to control him and feeds off the attention she gets from him. Up until a couple of years ago, DH would still kiss his daughters on the lips (at the time SD1 and SD2 were already in their late 20s) and all three of them would often sit on his lap, in public! I've had comments from other members of DHs family (like his cousin or his stepmother) saying it made them feel uncomfortable and so I pointed this out to him and thankfully it has stopped. But SD3 still on occasion sprawls across him when she visits, 'claiming' him as hers in every way she can. Bossing him around like his ex wife used to. She basically took on the role of new wife, when he split from his ex, when she was 13 (she chose to live with dad). She still makes plans with him (sometimes with my children) that exlude me, when I'm working. He has Thursdays off work to spend with our 2 year old son (this was my daughter before she started school) and she will only ever make plans to see him on those days, when I am out of the way at work. When she used to live with us, she would taunt me by sitting at the dinner table and saying "so what are we doing tomorrow dad?" - knowing full well that it was a daddy and son day to do something like take him swimming. Acting like an adult, calling the shots and knowing it would get to me. It's all starting to make sense. I see now what's driving her behaviour, so thank you

Merry's picture

Yeah, geography isn't your problem. There is still plenty of interference and drama through social media, cell phones, etc., and you're not talking about moving very far anyway. I've had issues with 800 miles distance between  us.

There is a long established pattern of your DH allowing your SD to abuse you all. Why does he allow that? I'm glad you're seeking individual therapy for yourself first so you figure out why YOU have tolerated this all these years, and then maybe he will join you in couples therapy. If he's willing to change. If he's not willing to change, then you either accept this life, hopefully with some new skills and disengagement you've learned through therapy, or build a life without him.

My DH knew I could and would leave the marriage if he didn't change the dynamics of control in his family. He had to be more afraid of me (and of being without me) than  he was of losing his children. (He didn't lose them, of course.)

You can't fix this by running. What are you willing to do to confront your DH? What is he willing to do to change the dynamic with his kids?

CajunMom's picture

Four of DH's kids migrated across the country....like a 2 day drive away distance. The troubles continued till I put my foot down in 2018 and went full blown disengaged to the point I refused to see them and our counselor strongly suggested to DH that he see his kids away from our marital home, along with some other  tactics. Major one being we didn't talk about those assholes (all adults in their late 30's and 40's) and I could care less about what is happening in their lives.

It's been 5 years since I've seen them. Two have recently visited our home (I released the boundary). I did not interact with one and the other got minimal interaction. Think "smiles" and "good morning" and other than that, total ignore. And while coming to our home, they've been clearly warned....behave or leave.

I'm glad you are in counseling....now time to get your DH into counseling. No way should he be allowing his ADULT daughter to behave this way. Work with your therapist to set some boundaries along with things you will accept and not accept. If your DH can't inform his princess, then take charge.

As for what she is doing with your children, STOP this immediately. When she's trying to force your child to say something back to her, take your child away from this unstable woman. And don't be afraid. Seriously, I've put up with a lot of crap from DHs kids and while we don't have any "our" kids, I know who I am as a mom. That biotch would NEVER be allowed around my kids with those behaviors. I'm not a violent person but don't mess with my kids. I don't care who you are.

So, in a nutshell, continue your counseling and developing some will tolerate/won't tolerate behavior lists along with some good boundaries. Suggest your DH get into counseling and let him know if he doesn't, when you start implementing new rules in the home that upset his precious princess, he's welcome to leave with her. SMH

Serioiusly...no one messes with my kids.  I have no idea how you've tolerated this.

Rags's picture

She is not sharing her Daddy with  you. The Spousal relationship trumps the parent child relationship. Period Dot.

Regardless of if the parents are marriage to each other or not.

The spousal relationship is the only top priority.   Kids are not the priority.

Minor kids are the top adult/marital responsibility.

There is a difference.

 

Mumma008's picture

Thank you. It's so hard to read these responses but it's like ripping off a band aid, I need to hear it. I have some self esteem / confidence issues, hence the therapy. I guess my fear is if I address any of this with her directly, she will cause a huge drama in the family and I will be seen to be upsetting the 'peace'. Everyone in the wider family, DH's parents, SD's mum's parents, see the SDs as victims due to the turmoil they endured with their mum. This is a lot of the reason DH is easy on them...like I said, guilt parenting. He's a good man, which is why I was attracted to him....but sometimes the thing that attracts you to a person ends up being the thing that drives you crazy. He has tried addressing her behaviours with her on a number of occasions, but it's usually after the 'horse has bolted' and she just worms her way out of it, usually blaming everyone else. 

I'm an only child and both my parents have passed away. So my DH and BKs (and DHs wider family) are the only family I have got. I'm petrified of losing them - which sounds crazy, I know, but the feeling is deep rooted. Part of me just deperately wants acceptance, hence the reason why I haven't addressed this myself. I never want to rock the boat. 

I have a therapy session today which will be focussed on SD3. Hopefully I can get to a point in the future where (with DHs support / backing) I am able to confront her and ask her to stop. I want to speak to her 1:1 and get it all out in the open.... say to her, I know she doesn't like me and she would rather I wasn't around, but I am here to stay and she can either change her behaviour when she is in my company, or not visit my home (this new house is actually owned jointly by me and DH... so it's not even their childhood home). I fear though, any convo like this will be blown massively out of proportion and she will always come out of it looking like a victim. I just need to learn the tools to be able to confidently stand my ground. And yes, so does my DH

Sounds like you all think moving away would be a waste of effort - so I really need to focus on fixing the issue itself

Evil4's picture

You don't need to confront your SD. In fact, you shouldn't. She is your DH's DD, so it is on him to put a stop to the dynamic and the abuse of his wife. 

And yes, things will get worse before they get better. She will ramp it up and it'll make your DH squirm. In my epic meltdown I told DH that will happen and he had damn well better say strong all the way through it or else. 

It's not your responsibility to confront your SD. If you do, it'll only give her the opportunity and fuel to go crying to Daddio for protection and put on the victim act to the rest of the family. You'll only be setting yourself up. It is DH that you have to stand up to. Let him know your requirements from him that are deal-breakers if you don't get them.

I totally feel you on the shitty family of origin and having the emotional wounds to show for it. For decades I thought that the reason I was treated so crappily was because it was me. I was missing some kind of essential ingredient or I wasn't "quite there yet" as far as a good wife, woman, etc. Well, that's just not true. And don't let anyone try to tell you it's you. Don't let anyone try to tell you that the onus is on you to "fix" things between you and your SD. No! She is an adult now too. She is the one doing wrong and your DH is being a coward and letting his wife down. By allowing his wife to be treated that way, he is letting your bio down. 

You can have the boundary to your DH that if he doesn't straighten out his bitch of a DD and he doesn't have your back, then she can no longer come into YOUR home. He will have to visit her outside the home.

And yes, there will be a shit storm. The reason is because for a long time you were always the one to back down. That's what both your SD and DH are used to. So, they'll ramp up the torture to "whip you back into shape." Don't fall for it. Know your worth. If you can't do it for yourself, do it for your bio. Picture the marriage you want for your bio and if you would die trying to get that marriage for her, then that's how you proceed in yours. That is if you just can't do it for you. It helped me whenever I was about to acquiesce. I stayed strong because I didn't want my DD23 to end up sad and traumatized like I was. And make no mistake about it, this dynamic is traumatizing. I was diagnosed with C-PTSD as a result of being in it for so long. 

Exjuliemccoy's picture

It's gospel, OP. You may have your own issues (as we all do), but the problem affecting your marriage is an old one that started before you even met your H. You married into dysfuction, girl. You need counseling to get stronger, but your H needs counseling because he's the one who is responsible for protecting you and your bios from the toxicity he helped create.

The behaviors you've described can develop in households that lack boundaries and/or have weak parents. My DH's family of origin had similarities: weak, absent mom; passive, doting, easily manipulated dad; and several spoiled daughters who seized power and worked in concert to control their Daddee. My DH's father never remarried or dated once his kids lived with him. Thank Dog, as any woman he brought home would have been mistreated. It isn't personal, and isn't really about YOU. It's about territory and control, so you've been targeted.

You've tried being nice, but nice equals weakness to these screwed up, territorial mini wives. The only thing they'll understand is a superior, unyielding force, and they'll resent the hell out of you for it. You're dealing with very damaged people, and no matter how this shakes out you're never going to be one big happy family. Your very existence in the family makes you the scapegoat for any and all poo, which is why your H needs to be the one standing between you and his toxic offspring.

I was once a lot like you - not much family to speak of, desperate to be accepted by skids and inlaws. I was a doormat for a loong time - used when convenient, tolerated but never loved or respected. The hard truth is, you need to let go of hope and face your fears of being alone. You are strong and capable. You are SUFFICIENT, a mother who has created her own family, and you don't need to beg for crumbs from these damaged witches. You do need to learn about boundaries (get the book Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend) and Karpman's Drama Triangle. Work on yourself, protect your kids from Crazy, stop putting energy into dysfunctional people and start building a life away from your DH's circus. I did, and it changed my life for the better.

ESMOD's picture

40 miles is not going to make much difference with boundary stompers.  If you and your DH can't agree to better boundaries.. and if he won't enforce them.. moving won't help.

PetSpoiler's picture

Moving won't help if your husband isn't willing to set some boundaries.  As far as the extended family goes:  there could be fallout.  Most likely will be.  But you know what?  It's better to be alone in the house with a dry crust of bread, than in a house full of feasting, with strife.  Either one of you not saying anything just to keep the peace will only start a war within yourself.  Resentment will fester, you will snap.  

Don't be afraid to release your inner mama bear.  Your son and daughter are YOUR children, not hers.  She can back off or get out.  If the husband doesn't like it, too bad.  If his extended family doesn't like it, too bad, it's none of their business anyway.  

My husband and I had to set boundaries with his mother due to her showing up whenever, trying to just walk in uninvited, trying to take over my kids, my daughter in particular.  I had enough, I said something, she cried to my husband, he confronted me, I exploded on him.  He learned to set boundaries.  Honestly, her behavior bothered him too.  I was angry, but still had my wits about me to point things out to him, showing him that she was the one being rude, overstepping, and by not saying anything he was showing her that her behavior was ok.  And why was it ok for her to do whatever but I would get called on the carpet? We shouldn't be held to a higher standard than others.  

His family got involved of course, consisting of SS's wife lying on my mother because she likes to stir the pot and get people mad at each other.  One nephew took SDIL, aka She-Devil, at her word, and he and my husband had it out. We cut the nephew out of our lives. SS, for his part, tried lying and justifying his wife's lie, told some lies of his own, said one thing but his actions said another, and we cut them out too.  He has another nephew who has accused us of holding a grudge.  I have nothing to do with him, and I think my husband plans on cutting him out once MIL passes.  They're both involved in her care so sometimes have to communicate.  It's minimal since she's in a nursing home now.  

That's just a cautionary tale, that yes, there could be fallout.  But worrying about that is not worth putting up with the BS you're putting up with.  

Merry's picture

You've been trying to keep the peace for a lot of years now, and that hasn't worked. I would expect fallout when you set boundaries (with either DH directly or SD herself), yes. Be prepared to face it and then move through it. If DH has your back, you will be fine and happier as a result.

But you can see from others' experiences that you will need to hold him to new behavior standards with consequences for when he doesn't. Work through what boundaries you need to set, and what consequences are tied to each if/when those boundary lines are crossed. Then enforce them. I'm a big believer in boundary clarity, to the point of writing them down and discussing them with your DH. It might be uncomfortable for everyone, but you are uncomfortable now, right? The discomfort is not yours alone to carry.

And when you DO  need to enforce those boundaries, use your own anger as a catalyst. It's way past time for YOU to get some peace--it will just be a painful process.

Rags's picture

IMHO one of the key success factors in our Unicorn blended family experience is that we never lived nearer than 1200+ miles to SpermLand and the entire 16+ years we lived under the Custody/Visitation/Support CO was under a long distance visitation schedule. The shallow and polluted end of my SS's gene pool had limited time to ruin him.  They received 7wks of visitation per year. 5wk summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring.  There were a number of periods of a year or more that they refused all visitation.

His mom and I met when he was 15mos old, and married the week before he turned 2yo.  Our son had the stability of growing up in a commited marriage between equity life partners  who were also equity parents, and ..... did not have his existence polluted by having to be raised by his Spermidiot or being ruined by excessive exposure to the PASing banshee shreaking SpermGrandHag.

Our son (SS-30) is a successful viable adult and a man of character and standing in his career, life, and community.  His three younger Spermidiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas include an on the dole entitlement minion, a prison inmate, and #3 is not far behind the convict.