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CastleJJ's picture

DH called SS10 today for our usual twice per week call since visiting him last weekend. It was evident DH was on speakerphone. Of course, BM wasn't there - it was GF taking SS to a school event. During their call, GF chimed in, telling DH about how much fun SS had with us last weekend and how he couldn't wait to tell them all about it. DH said that GF's comment seemed genuine and sincere, not petty or sarcastic. SS then confirmed that he had a great time with us. 

I know a lot of you on here said in my last blog that SS likely was conflicted with us being in BM's city, since he is not used to mixing the two families. He is used to us being here and BM and GF being there, always separate with SS traveling back and forth. I just don't get why the whole weekend, SS barely said two words and acted so proper and uncomfortable with us, yet he tells BM and GF that he had such a great time and spent so much time talking about it. He literally seemed like he would have rather been anywhere else last weekend than with us. Where was that excitement and happiness when he was actually with us? I just don't get it. 


thinkthrice's picture

Aka victims of PAS are required to be aloof toward the targeted parent when the PASing parent is present.  Otherwise they will suffer punishment from the PASer parent for daring to appear happy around the targeted parent.

CastleJJ's picture

That's the weird thing, BM and GF were not present. We had SS alone the whole weekend, so I don't understand why he was still acting that way. If BM and GF had been with us, I could understand it, but he was alone with us the whole time, except for at the football game, but SS was on the field the whole time. 

thinkthrice's picture

The psychology is still there.   I noticed this aloofness grew as the PAS progressed.  At first, there was a 20 minute period on the drive back to our house for visitation from sports activities where you could tell they were waiting for a "safe distance" from the Gir 'n' Clan to be comfortable with us.

That time period increased to the point where they would not talk to us on the phone (after the fake CPS incident) they would pretend to ignore us at their events whilst obliging the Gir by parading in front of us pretending they didn't notice we were there.    Then the terrible behavior on visitation, the phoney excuses as to why they couldn't come to our house (fourth BM family reunion in as many months, national pizza day, etc) 

They would seldom if ever return Chef's calls and when they did it was always speakerphone with Gir screening the call.   They never picked up right away.  By contrast,  Chef would always pick up when the either the skids or Gir called.

One by one they stopped coming over, yet the Gir had them send what could only be described as judgemental greeting cards to induce Chef's guilt/guilty daddy syndrome.

The psychology, like brain washing, stays and yes it is child abuse of the cruelest kind IMO.  We simply did not have the money to fight this in court.   And by most of the outcomes you read here, 99% of fathers in courts fighting for their rights has a negative outcome. Money flushed down the extremely militantly pro-BM system called "family" court.

Rags's picture

Once that was past with your departure back to your home city, he could talk all about it without the tension of having to avoid hurting mommy's fee fees, etc...

With the pleasant interface with SS and GF, it certainly appears that the source of anxieties is BM.  

Other than making sure BM does not get away with even a single ounce of bullshit, it may be best to focus all interface with SS and BM's GF.

Sorry to be such a master of the obvious.


Take care of  you.

CastleJJ's picture

GF may be nicer and easier to deal with, but she is in no way a friend to us. I doubt she would help us in any way, shape or form because helping us goes against the narrative she wants that SS is her bio son. She would direct everything to BM. GF is just polite where BM is rude, regardless of who is around. 

Rags's picture

If GF is less nauseating to deal with, deal with her rather than BM.  

Keep SS fully informed with the facts in an age appropriate manner so over time he knows what BM and GF are and so he can protect himself from their bullshit.

I have never presented myself as my SS's BioDad. Though I have always been his dad.  At least I have been his dad since before he has memory, and even though I am on his revised birth certificate.  I am his dad. Regardless of his being spawned by the Spermidiot.

He chose me. He chose our family name. He left that POS in his rear view mirror.  Though we had no way of knowing how it would work out, the process started when we commited to be equity life partners and as such equity parents to any children in our home/marriage. As it turned out, SS is an only child in our family.  As the SpermClan manipulated, we countered with the facts, the truth and living a good example as mom/dad, mates, and as a family.  All while the shallow and polluted end of his gene pool circled the toilet bowl and remained committed to lies, manipulations, and toxic bullshit.  As SS progressed into and through his teens, he became fully versed in the truth and the facts and was able to counter their crap and to protect himself from their lies and manipulations in real time. They hated that. He did not enjoy having to nail their lying, manipulative asses to the wall with the facts while on SpermLand visitation, but... he was fully capable of protecting himself and absolutely would when they forced his hand.

At some point your SS will be an adult. The manipulative crap from BM/GF will not end.  Part of your DH's duty, your collective parental duty, is to make sure that SS knows the truth and has the ability to protect himself from them as an adult.  Whether or nor he does, is up to him.  Either way he chooses to go, he will have to make a choice with the full information at hand.

IMHO every kid should have the full facts and truth to consider as they make these decisions as they progress towards adulthood and engage in their adult lives.

CastleJJ's picture

We see SS 6 weeks per year and we have zero custody. We have visitation but that's it. We have to walk a fine line. While we try to keep to the facts when SS asks us things, we also don't go full on. We answer his questions, but keep it neutral and still age appropriate, not badmouthing BM or GF. We haven't pulled out court orders or discussed anything related to that. 

He is a kid who already has enough emotional conflict in his life. He constantly has to please BM and suffers from the loyalty binds she puts him in. We don't make him choose. We are not going to add more emotional stress to him, even if it means sacrificing our relationship with him. We cannot protect him from BM's antics with the limited visitation we have. And honestly, he trusts and loves BM far more than he does DH. DH trying to get SS to face the truth would only push SS further away. 

Rags's picture

My DW had full physical and legal custody.  SS had 7wks of visitation with his BioDad. Sadly, the SpermClan was more about the manipulation, trying to dominate and control my DW, and apparently lying to my SS to try to change reality.  Probably a parallel to what the GF is trying to do to your SS as far as playing the second Bio/Mom.

Also sad is that the Spermidiot had little to nothing to do with SS during the 7wks/yr of visitation he did have.  If they chose to take the visitaiton SS rarely saw the Spermidiot for more than a few hours on any given visitation (5wks summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring).  SS was usually pawned off on one or the other sets of GGPs until they all passed, then he was at the SpermGrandHag's and SpermGrandPa's home where he was barely recognized or tolerated.

We chose to raise SS with the facs and truth regarding the lies, manipulations, and alternative reality crap from the SpermClan.  Our perspective was that their lies and crap would cause SS far more emotional stress for far longer if we did not counter the lies and manipulations.

I like to think that had we been the NCP household we would have done as close to the same as we did as the CP household as possible.

I feel for your Skid.

Survivingstephell's picture

This must have been the first time for him to be around everyone on his turf.  Poor kid was walking a tightrope, being overly cautious so he didn't lose focus.  That's mental abuse IMO.  The inability to be your authentic self. Funny how he's allowed to do that ( or feels free to be) around GF.  

lieutenant_dad's picture

Not that I want to give GF too much credit, but I do wonder if she is being abused in some way. I do think BM manipulates the relationship (or at least based on what Castle says) so it wouldn't surprise me if GF also behaves differently in order to keep BM calm/happy. At this point, I wonder if GF sticks around BECAUSE she sees SS as her son and doesn't want to lose him (and truly wants to see him happy despite BM).

It reminds me of ET's XH#2. Awful human being, but I do think he cared about the kids in his own way. I think he stuck around with ET and played by her rules partly for them. Not trying to say he was a positive influence for them, but I think they were a positive influence for him. I could totally see GF feeling the same.

thinkthrice's picture

They will also play mind control games on their partners.  I can only think that in our case, StepDaddyBigBucks is a complete zombie.  Stockholm Syndrome.

CastleJJ's picture

I agree with some of this. I agree that BM manipulates her relationship with GF. BM manipulates every relationship she has with everyone - BM's parents, BM's brother, romantic partners, friends, etc. BM manipulated and abused DH but DH didn't realize it until he was out of the relationship for a while. I think GF views SS as her son and wouldn't leave BM if she was unhappy because she wouldn't want to lose SS. But I also don't think GF fully sees the manipulation and believes she is happy. But I also think GF goes along with BM's antics toward DH because she doesnt want to lose SS either and she feels insecure about not being SS' biological parent. 

CastleJJ's picture

We had gone to BM's city several times a year to visit SS between 2017 and 2018, but after she starting abusing DH, just before we took her to court, we stopped going. This was the first visit since 2018. I told DH we shouldn't go back if it is going to negatively impact SS that bad. We didn't think it would be bad because our previous visits were never that way. 

floralsm's picture

SS is a lot like this. Enmeshment is horrible for kids. The guilt of showing any emotion to me is evident because he feels guilty he's betraying his mum. ESPECIALLY when SD is around, she's BMs spy so he is completely different when she is there. Very quiet and mis behaves. We have him booked to speak to a child psychologist. 

Harry's picture

Again you know BM wasn't s a happy family of herself, GF, and SS.  Cutting you and DH out of SS life.  GF is not as controlling as BM.  GF can't see SS as her child,  GF must be the female in the relationship. She knows that she did not give to SS.  
You must take a step back in trying to make sense of BM and BM life. She is crazy and there is no makeing sense of a crazy's life.

Just play by the CO. Give proper notice of when you are picking up SS and when you are returning him.  Christmas- New  years visitation, you will be picking SS up on December X at X time and returning him Jan X at Z time. Next visitation is February break from Frn X to feb Z. 
keep is short and formal 

GF is not your friend, just a little normal then BM. But BM still try's to call the shorts 

CastleJJ's picture

Oh I am under no illusion that BM or GF are our friends. I know BM and GF would shove us in front of a metaphorical speeding train the first second they could, even if GF is the "nice" one. If it improves BM and GF's situation, makes their life easier, or allows them to keep their grip on SS, they'll do it. They've done it to us many times before to the point we needed cameras in our home and did not allow any family to have direct contact with them. 

We do play by the CO and follow it to the letter. We don't ask for additional time, we don't do anything extra (except this 1 visit in 4 years), and we pay to the penny in CS, paying nothing extra. We have already sent BM an outline of all of our visitation for this academic school year per the CO, which she confirmed all dates (minus summer since that flexes every year based on football schedules). When DH does communicate with BM (and BM only), he keeps it BIFF and when responding, only says "Thanks for the update." We have basically given up, but dealing with that loss is hard, especially when someone else is basking in your failure. DH and I do the best we can to live our lives as normal as possible, ignoring the fact that we don't see SS often. We try to get on with our lives and focus on DD.