Can DH tell SS that BM is a POS? (really looooooooong)
HERE'S THE UPDATE:
DH & SS 13 met with the counselor. SS didn't have anything to say - didn't want to talk about anything etc etc etc. Was just being all-around attitude-y typical teenager. My DH laid out his points that we were going to follow the CO and it was b/c she had brought the boys around some questionable people. SS had been told for years by his BM that the CO wasn't real. But we told him that SIL had just called us asking for our lawyer's info b/c BM was going to try to file for custody modification w/o a lawyer. So I guess she now believes it is real. DH told him we love him and want to keep him safe and because BM had put him in danger before we can not just trust that she will make sure they are in a safe environment. SS has nothing to say and after the session sulks for 5 minutes then engages DH boisterously about wrestling season etc.
Both SSs go to their BM's mother's the next day for their supervised visitation. BM is not there but SIL drops by to pick up the boys to take them to their BM's house where she will supervise the visitation. SS 13 chooses not to go. He doesn't feel like it is what he later tells us. When DH asked him why he said he didn't know. Maybe all this is sinking in.
Okay, I know he can't, but hear me out:
We have full custody of 2 SSs (10 & 13)and BM has supervised visitation and has for 4 years. She never changed the temporary order (idiot). Her history - drug addiction, living with addicts and dealers, one boyfriend abused the oldest, felony drug convictions, 17 misdemeanor convictions for stealing checks, always skipped visitations, went a whole year w/o seeing kids, left them at a campground with a "friend," suicide attempts, goes from boyfriend to boyfriend (current boyfriend has pending criminal charges), moves every few months, hasn't had a job in 5+ years, made threats against us,never paid a dime of support for the kids, you get the picture. Our situation is not unique, many of you have similar BMs or BMs that are worse. But here's my most recent conundrum.
On Friday oldest SS & DH will be doing a joint counseling session w/ SS's counselor. Counselor has already given DH the heads up that SS wants to talk about why we aren't doing more to help BM see the skids more. See, to SSs, BM is MOTY, right? The skids blame us for BM not getting to have them unsupervised. When they spend their very limited time with her she tells them her very fantastical version of events: The custody order is not valid; She was never addicted to drugs (even though she told us, her kids & her own family that she was and she, ya know, went to jail for possession of crack); We made up all this drug stuff to turn her kids & family against her (we made up a felony drug conviction?); My DH is actually the one addicted to crack (He's a full-time college student w/ a 3.89 GPA, full-time dad and full-time KICK ASS DH - when does he have time to smoke crack?). These are just the most recent lies.
We never bad mouth BM to the kids but we do try to tell them the truth but age appropriately - "Your mom is sick right now and can't be with you guys" or "I don't know why your mom hasn't seen you in 7 months but I know she loves you." But SS13 has always been his mom's biggest champion and he's always put it on our plate to make accommodations for her to see him. She won't actually do anything to change this situation - she won't hire a lawyer, she won't even go for a free consultation, she won't research free legal aid avenues, we even sent her info on pro se custody modification.
SO I guess what I'm hoping you can help me with is this- DH would love to say to SS something to the effect of:
Your BM is a POS who for the last 10 years has repeatedly put you in dangerous situations and is currently living with a criminal. She claims you were never abused even though the pediatrician did find evidence of it. She told you she was addicted to drugs and now she says she never was. She told you her last boyfriend was a drug dealer and now she says he wasn't. She said the boyfriend before that was a drug addict and now she says he wasn't. She said your own father was a crack addict then she admitted that was a lie then she said it again. She skipped out on most visitations with you in the last 6 years and once went almost a full year without seeing you at all. She has always chosen spending time with latest criminal boyfriend over spending time with you. According to you all she does when you do see her is cry. She has never paid for one school supply, one school lunch, one article of clothing, one sport equipment expense. She has NEVER ONCE helped you with homework. I'm not sure she even knows where you go to school or what grade you're in. She has not been to a parent-teacher meeting in 7 years. She has no self-awareness - she has no idea that her actions have caused you boys great harm and because of this she will continue to put you in harmful situations. I will not spend one minute of my time or one cent of my money trying to help this bitch spend more time with you. In fact, I'd rather spend my time and money trying to make sure she NEVER sees you again.
All right, friends, thoughts? I know he can't say this stuff, but how can he stress all this without completely destroying the kid?
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Good point Foxie. The CO is
Good point Foxie. The CO is probably a little advanced for his age and doesn't say much b/c she readily agreed to the order b/c she was in jail when we petitioned for custody. We didn't even have to present information. We do, however, have all the logs that we have kept for the last 5 years detailing every time she skipped her visitation or tried to commit suicide or was arrested. Do you think we show him that?
This has been a 10 year
This has been a 10 year battle and it's negatively affected their lives in many ways. Since our SSs are continually told by her that we're liars and crack addicts - it makes our lives very difficult. The 13 y/o is insistent that we are bad parents b/c we won't change the CO to benefit his BM. We've done the "I hope you'll understand when you're older" thing, but he's 13 and won't let it go. He keeps pushing and pushing about why we aren't doing more to help her. When 13 y/o was 10 his mother went a year w/o seeing him. We knew she was caught up in drugs but only said "Your mom is sick right now and can't be with you but she loves you." We told him this for a year. When she was finally arrested we told him that she was in jail and now might get the help she needs. He was so relieved b/c he thought that she was dead and we were afraid to tell him. I told him then I would never lie to him and would always tell him the truth if he asked me to. Well, I feel like he's asking. And my DH and I don't want to tell him all this. But I think he is mature enough to grasp the reality of the situation and it's going to be painful. I just want it to involve as little pain as possible.
You cannot give specific
You cannot give specific details to this 13 year old, but he is too old for the "mommy is sick right now" excuse. You're going to have to beef up the conversation. He isn't stupid, give him a good enough explanation without having to tell him specifics.
For instance:
Because of the choices your mom has made and some of the things she has done, she no longer gets the normal privileges that other parents have because it puts your safety at risk. I know you don't understand the situation, but please trust your dad's judgement and know that he is not concerned about taking you away from your mother, but he is concerned for doing what is right and following the rules he is expected to go by for the court.
Could you come up with a good explanation like this? Perhaps tailor it to your kids. When you come up with your story, stick to it like glue and eventually it will sink in to the kids brain. It is short and directly addresses the "whys" of the situation.
Good luck with it!
ddakan - that's good. That's
ddakan - that's good. That's the kind of thing we need. If he asks for more detail, should we tell him?
She's got him thinking all this bad stuff never happened, but HE'S the one who told us her ex-boyfriend abused him. And she's always treated him like her little confidant. And the 13 y/o already knows about the the drugs and the suicide attempts. She told him herself. We only talked about her arrest at all b/c they overheard BMs mother talking about it and were scared sh*tless..
Facts are not good or bad,
Facts are not good or bad, they are just facts. Stick with the facts.
We have extensive files on my SS-18's BioDad including all of the court docs, a copy of his marriage record to his then 16yo wife (BioDad was 24 at the time), a copy of the divorce decree 3mos after the marriage license date, arrest records, income taxes, PI reports and video of stupid shit that the SPermIdiot does, recordings of every telephone conversation between BioDad or SpermGrandMa and my wife etc.....
Any time there is SpermClan drama we keep a record of it and file it. Periodically my SS will get pissed off at his mom and I for being "mean" to the SpermClan. They will ride SS about how mean we are for forcing them to pay CS, how mean we are for not giving more visitation time, how SS does not need the nice clothes, name brand shoes, expensive sun glasses, expensive watch, etc.... and how it is not fair that SS has these nice things and his 3 younger also out-of-wedlock half sibs by two other mothers don't have nice things, blah, blah, blah.......
When they play those idiot cards, we go to the facts. We explain the situation to SS in an age appropriate manner then show him the supporting facts from the file.
This has been going on since SS was 2yo. Of course we did not show him documents when he was 2 but we have always told him the truth. Your SS-13 is more than old enough to hear the facts and be shown the supporting proof that confirms the facts.
Of course your DH should not use the words that you presented in your OP but he sure can and should give SS-13 the message and the facts. The message that DH knows it is hard on SS-13 and his sib(s)but that BM is dangerous and that he (DH) must protect his children from their BM is perfectly valid and should be shared.
My SS loves his SpermIdiot and the SpermClan but he does not respect them. The facts over the course of his life have allowed him to form his own opinion of the situation and of the vitriolic bull shit that the SpermClan attempts to try to pass off to SS as the truth.
Kids need to know the facts about their parents in these situations. Fortunately, most parents are decent people and the facts are not all that interesting. However, in the case of toothless dip shits, the facts are the tools that allow the reasonable half of a kid's gene pool to protect the child.
All IMHO of course.
I think Rags, Vickmeister and
I think Rags, Vickmeister and ddakan have some very good advise. A 13yo is ready for some facts although they should presented simply enough, minus any negative projection toward the BM or her intention, along with a good amount of reasurrance that he is loved, is being protected and that you are sure his BM loves him in her own way regarless of how her actions might look.
Thank you everyone. This is
Thank you everyone. This is just the kind of advice we needed. We know we don't want to say anything negative about the boys' mom (and never have) because we've been trying to protect the boys but we've probably been too careful about shielding them from the truth. And in the end this has ended up hurting them as well.
My DH's points in the conversations will be:
He'll stick to things she has said to him, things the boys have said to him, legal documents and verifiable facts. He'll let them know that we love them and want to protect them and her actions have made it so that 4 years ago we and most importantly the court didn't think it was safe for the boys to be with her unsupervised. The court might make a different ruling today if this matter was brought before them.
But for now, the court expects all of us to follow the current orders, they are like laws and we will do that until the court tells us not to. It is not our responsibility to change the orders for her. We can't financially afford it and wouldn't do it even if we could. That is her job. We have given her plenty of information on how to go about changing the order (even though that was not our responsibility either) and she has chosen to not do any of these things. He's sorry she can not afford a lawyer but most lawyers will do a free consultation and we have given her the information on free legal clinics and how to file the necessary court papers without a lawyer at all.
DH understands that this situation is extremely hurtful for the boys - it hurts us too to see them in pain - but he hopes when they are older they will understand that we are only doing all of this because we feel we need to for their own protection. It may not always be this way but until SHE takes the initiative to take us to court, we will not deviate from the court order.
STalkers - Am I leaving anything out?
Jen, I would delete this
Jen,
I would delete this sentence: "The court might make a different ruling today if this matter was brought before them." and I would also delete the "Bur for now" in the 3rd full paragraph. I like the discussion on the CO and that it is the law and everyone has to follow the law.
I would also edit the 3rd paragraph to delete most of the reference to what DH and BM can and can not afford and to stick succinctly to the "she has chosen to not do any of these things" message.
I always liberally refer to all of the stuff that my wife and I do to protect our son from the moron decisions of his SpermClan, minus the moron reference of course.
DH may want to reference all of the things that you and have done to protect the kids from BMs and her BFs criminal behavior (this is a prime opportunity to show some arrest or conviction records). Remember, facts are not good or bad, they are just facts.
There is no need to prep the Skids to request that their BM take DH back to court for a change to the CO. If BM is too much of a moron to go after a change then leaves your DH in command to do what he things is best for his kids.
IMHO of course.
Good luck.
You're a real prince, Rags.
You're a real prince, Rags. We'll be making these changes. Thanks for all of your thoughts. I always felt that your situation is close in many ways to ours as we have a Toothless WombDonor and her clan to deal with. You have inspired me to get real enjoyment out of these Hillbilly Assfaces!
"Hillbilly Assfaces!"
"Hillbilly Assfaces!"
CLASSIC!
I was always waiting for SS to tell some "Squeel Like a Pig BOY!" stories when he got back from SpermClan family reunions.
The funny part of my SS's gene pool HillBilly Stories is that SpermLand is on the West Coast and the family wears a lot of Confederate Battle Flag attire. They are so clueless that they don't get that a family that has been in OR for more than 150yrs has amost ZERO chance of a Confederate history.
Morons!
When my SS has brought this up with them their response is "that is not a confederate flag, it is a symbol of red neck pride". WTF? :?
I would follow the
I would follow the counselor's lead. But I wouldn't tell kids that young details of their mother's criminal past. They don't need to hear that mess. That deserve to enjoy being kids and not worry about their mother.
However, I do think they are old enough that you are going to have give them some of the information. Maybe explain it using "time-out" as an example. Kids get "time-out" when they aren't behaving in ways that are appropriate. The judge thinks that mommy needs a "time-out" so that she can spend some time learning how to take care of you guys better. She loves you very much. But right now she is not doing a very good job making sure you are fed, healthy, and safe. Daddy and I are going to continue to make sure you are safe no matter what.