On a trip to Berlin, 4 years ago, my DH and I were seated in front of a loud and obnoxious brat who refused to stop kicking the back of my chair after I'd asked his mother, very politely, to control her son. Finally, my husband (a retired teacher/high school principal) stood up and hissed, from between his teeth, "Don't kick that seat again!"
The mother huffed and puffed but the kicking stopped. I'm always baffled by parents who have no sense of shame when their children are obviously offensive. As kids (back in the dark ages), my 7 siblings and I were referred to as ‘home devils and street angels’. When out in public, we understood that naughtiness would result in great pain and sorrow once we got home. In fact, before any misbehaviour progressed, my mother could paralyze us with a look. That look!
When I owned restaurants I never had this type of problem with kids. I did have to confront a number of I'll behaved adults though.
My tactic was to inform the individual that they would have to leave then I would tell the rest of the party they were welcome to stay. Invariably the rest of the party would get their shit behaved element under control.
More than one of the poorly behaved individuals came back, apologized and became regular customers and one even became a friend.
When DW, SS and I moved to the MidAtlantic our downstairs neighbor was one I asked to leave. When we ran into each other on the stairs it was hilarious. She & her BF, DW and I became pretty good friends and had some great parties when SS was on SpermClan visitation.
I was spend $ for a babysitter for my SK. To go out to a nice restaurant [what we could afford after babysitter] and have someone else kids having a mely down, or three couples with 12 kids. Putting the kids at there own table. Because the adults want alone time. The kids are being kids and making the restaurant like a zoo
I get that kids don't learn how to behave properly in restaurants without practice.. but IMHO.. there are plenty of opportunities to practice public manners.. at a fast food restaurant.. at home.. at chain restaurants.. It is very unfair to patrons who are spending a big chunk of change to be forced to put up with your screaming kid.
AND.. i get it.. some kids have issues.. autism spectrum.. etc.. but in those cases? You know that the child won't be able to match the energy of the establishment.. so why put them in that position and force other patrons to deal with your kid that can't help but yelp out 12 times a minute? So.. does that mean if you have a special needs child you can't eat out at nice places? maybe.. maybe it does if your chilld can't manage to be there without being disruptive.. you can always find a sitter.. or get food to go.. sorry.. that may not be totally sympathetic.. but the reality is that your child's problems do not need to be everyone else's.
And.. my mother had to move two small kids back in the 60's and 70's.. to places where there were not always a fast food option.. we moved every single year until I was 12.. so they had to take us to restaurants.. the whole food app thing was not possible.. so we learned very early to behave in public spaces.. I'm sure we had our share of behavior issues.. but I also remember the threat of being made to leave without eating my meal.. was enough to keep me in line most of the time.
I also am not a huge fan of kids being on planes when they can't or won't be able to act accordingly.. so maybe you don't take fly away vacations until your children are able to behave in public? I get that sometimes you have to fly with kids..but much of it I imagine is voluntary.. "fun" travel..
AND.. the whole issue of asking people to give up seats so family can sit together.. That is complete BS.. if the airline offers seating options together.. that cost more?.. the family should pay that.. the problem seems to arise when people don't choose their seats in advance being cheap.. then they get upset when the system assigns them separately.. I paid in advance to have my specific window seat towards the front of the plane.. unless your request to move is for me to go to FIRST CLASS.. I won't move for you.. sorry... no way.. you likely had an option to book your own flights.. so you caused your own problem.. why does it now have to be mine?
The only way I would potentially allow seats to be reassigned is if the airline can put you in a similar seat to what you booked (and paid for)... Or possibly if a child under the age of 12 and a parent books last minute.. where they will change it so that at least ONE parent can sit proximate to the child.. and that proximate could be minimum in the same row... across the aisle etc..
I recently had the joy of discovering an airline that doesn't charge for seating but does their best to seat everyone sensibly when they confirm their flight. No, you can't choose but you know you'll all be seated together. For the record, it's TAP, a Portuguese company ( we're currently on holiday in Madeira). So no unhappy parents badgering other travellers for their seats.
It used to be that it was basically first come first served on seat selection... you booked earlier.. you would end up getting to pick your preferred seat.. last minute? you might end up in the middle.. lol.
Airlines figured out that for many, it was worth it to pay a bit more to have their preferred seat placement.. nearer to the front of the plane.. exit row.. aisle or window.. etc..
And.. it can be worth it to be closer to the front if you have a tight deadline. and who would want to randomly be assigned a middle seat if they were willing to pay for the privilege of another option?
I just feel like if you are traveling as a family.. and you had the option of selecting seats together when you booked.. even if it meant at a cost.. that is just the price you pay for traveling and sitting together. Perhaps airlines could not allow a small block of seats to be prebooked.. maybe in the back of the plane.. and those are the seating areas used to accomodate those families with very young kids who didn't pay the upcharge.. Maybe they could require an adult who is booking with kids 12 and under to book one adult near a child.. maybe they could even offer that "for free".. to have one of the adults with the kids.. I don't think they necessarily need to do more than that. I don't think airlines are obligated to give people free access to their seating preference when others have to pay for it. If the parents don't choose to exercise the choice when they book.. seems like they put themselves in that position.
However, I was impressed that this airline seemed to get it right. Nobody disputed their seat and all families and couples seemed to be seated together on both flights we took. No hassles. Very refreshing.
This was almost 7 years ago before the seat thing blew up but... we were on our way to one of SOs friends destination weddings. So a bunch of us on that flight were heading to the wedding. The brides brothers and their families where on that flight...
We still talk about to this day about how bad that 3 and 1/2 hour flight was because her nephews were out of control... there are a bunch of them.
It was an 8am flight at an airport 1 1/2 -2 hours away with parking... so we were all up very early and wanted to relax.
If they offered adults-only flights I might actually somewhere haha. I just could not imagine spending all that money for a flight only to spend it in misery listening to screaming the whole time. Not my idea of a relaxing vacation. I would be like that guy who lost it on the flight... "Sir, you are yelling" "So.is.the.baby!!!" lol.
And let's be realistic, they aren't going to ban children from EVERY restaurant. It would be nice to have a few adult-only options that aren't a bar. They will always have plenty of places to practice manners.
With so many people my age and younger forgoing having children, I think there will be more of a market for adult-only venues. Birth rates are dropping in pretty much every developed country. If you want to have kids great but so many people who don't no longer feel the pressure to be baby making machines.
Breweries and wineries have become TOO kid friendly. Example... SO and I stopped at one of our local wineries at noon on a Wednesday two weeks ago... this place is jammed on the weekends..very big and well known.
There were maybe 10 people there and out of those 10... two girls in their mid to late 20s... one had a 1 1/2year old and it was full blown photo shoot between the kid and the girls.
Im not anti kid but FFS. Go to the zoo or something.
What i can't stand is the kids with their ipads on full volume. TBH, some adults will watch videos on their phone at full volume too. Manners and class are rare out there.
THIS IS MY LIFE! SSs with their f'n phones on full volume walking around the house. I purposely embarrassed SO in front of his friend and his wife by bringing this up... because they were both like oh no!! They have two teenagers themselves....
SO thinks nothing should bother me................. like him.
My son is 22 and when we go places he's like "Look at all the little ipad babies!" It's crazy how sticking that thing in their hands just mesmerizes them so the parents don't have to do anything. Can't be good for them.
As for learning to behave at a restaurant.... not necessary when parents are of quality and raise their spawn from day one with standards of behavior.
I have on a number of occassions assertively told parents of ill behaved children running amok in a restaurant to get their kids under control or I woudl. I then ask the server to get the manager.
I speak calmly but with enough volume that the shit parent, their shit child, and the rest of the guests are fully aware of the situation and that the offending parents likely will be pulled aside by the management of the establishment.
My restauranteur days were blessedly not polluted by this. All of my locations were in malls with an open air cafe design so kids could be tossed over the planters to run amok in the mall instead of in my stores.
I enjoy watching people and families. Fortunately, most are decent and so are their kids. Parents of infants who have a meltdown going on should take their child out of the restaurant for a walk and a talk. Young kids should not get out of their seat. PERIOD!
Kids raised with THE LOOK! do not seem to struggle with these behavioral issues.
Funny how that works.
As for kids with legitimate behavioral disabilities, their parents owe the public calm even when their kid is ADHD, on the spectrum, etc....
Comments
I wish they would charge a
I wish they would charge a fee for rotten kids on airplanes, too!! Love it!
I'll second that, dulce_vida!
On a trip to Berlin, 4 years ago, my DH and I were seated in front of a loud and obnoxious brat who refused to stop kicking the back of my chair after I'd asked his mother, very politely, to control her son. Finally, my husband (a retired teacher/high school principal) stood up and hissed, from between his teeth, "Don't kick that seat again!"
The mother huffed and puffed but the kicking stopped. I'm always baffled by parents who have no sense of shame when their children are obviously offensive. As kids (back in the dark ages), my 7 siblings and I were referred to as ‘home devils and street angels’. When out in public, we understood that naughtiness would result in great pain and sorrow once we got home. In fact, before any misbehaviour progressed, my mother could paralyze us with a look. That look!
The adults act more rotten
The adults act more rotten than kids in my plane traveling experience.
Ugh!!!!
We need more of this! And the
We need more of this! And the restaurant looks amazing!
I looked the restaurant up on
I looked the restaurant up on instagram haha. If I'm ever in that area I'm going!
I applaud this restaurant.
When I owned restaurants I never had this type of problem with kids. I did have to confront a number of I'll behaved adults though.
My tactic was to inform the individual that they would have to leave then I would tell the rest of the party they were welcome to stay. Invariably the rest of the party would get their shit behaved element under control.
More than one of the poorly behaved individuals came back, apologized and became regular customers and one even became a friend.
When DW, SS and I moved to the MidAtlantic our downstairs neighbor was one I asked to leave. When we ran into each other on the stairs it was hilarious. She & her BF, DW and I became pretty good friends and had some great parties when SS was on SpermClan visitation.
That always ticked me OFF
I was spend $ for a babysitter for my SK. To go out to a nice restaurant [what we could afford after babysitter] and have someone else kids having a mely down, or three couples with 12 kids. Putting the kids at there own table. Because the adults want alone time. The kids are being kids and making the restaurant like a zoo
I get that kids don't learn
I get that kids don't learn how to behave properly in restaurants without practice.. but IMHO.. there are plenty of opportunities to practice public manners.. at a fast food restaurant.. at home.. at chain restaurants.. It is very unfair to patrons who are spending a big chunk of change to be forced to put up with your screaming kid.
AND.. i get it.. some kids have issues.. autism spectrum.. etc.. but in those cases? You know that the child won't be able to match the energy of the establishment.. so why put them in that position and force other patrons to deal with your kid that can't help but yelp out 12 times a minute? So.. does that mean if you have a special needs child you can't eat out at nice places? maybe.. maybe it does if your chilld can't manage to be there without being disruptive.. you can always find a sitter.. or get food to go.. sorry.. that may not be totally sympathetic.. but the reality is that your child's problems do not need to be everyone else's.
And.. my mother had to move two small kids back in the 60's and 70's.. to places where there were not always a fast food option.. we moved every single year until I was 12.. so they had to take us to restaurants.. the whole food app thing was not possible.. so we learned very early to behave in public spaces.. I'm sure we had our share of behavior issues.. but I also remember the threat of being made to leave without eating my meal.. was enough to keep me in line most of the time.
I also am not a huge fan of kids being on planes when they can't or won't be able to act accordingly.. so maybe you don't take fly away vacations until your children are able to behave in public? I get that sometimes you have to fly with kids..but much of it I imagine is voluntary.. "fun" travel..
AND.. the whole issue of asking people to give up seats so family can sit together.. That is complete BS.. if the airline offers seating options together.. that cost more?.. the family should pay that.. the problem seems to arise when people don't choose their seats in advance being cheap.. then they get upset when the system assigns them separately.. I paid in advance to have my specific window seat towards the front of the plane.. unless your request to move is for me to go to FIRST CLASS.. I won't move for you.. sorry... no way.. you likely had an option to book your own flights.. so you caused your own problem.. why does it now have to be mine?
The only way I would potentially allow seats to be reassigned is if the airline can put you in a similar seat to what you booked (and paid for)... Or possibly if a child under the age of 12 and a parent books last minute.. where they will change it so that at least ONE parent can sit proximate to the child.. and that proximate could be minimum in the same row... across the aisle etc..
O/T
I recently had the joy of discovering an airline that doesn't charge for seating but does their best to seat everyone sensibly when they confirm their flight. No, you can't choose but you know you'll all be seated together. For the record, it's TAP, a Portuguese company ( we're currently on holiday in Madeira). So no unhappy parents badgering other travellers for their seats.
It used to be that it was
It used to be that it was basically first come first served on seat selection... you booked earlier.. you would end up getting to pick your preferred seat.. last minute? you might end up in the middle.. lol.
Airlines figured out that for many, it was worth it to pay a bit more to have their preferred seat placement.. nearer to the front of the plane.. exit row.. aisle or window.. etc..
And.. it can be worth it to be closer to the front if you have a tight deadline. and who would want to randomly be assigned a middle seat if they were willing to pay for the privilege of another option?
I just feel like if you are traveling as a family.. and you had the option of selecting seats together when you booked.. even if it meant at a cost.. that is just the price you pay for traveling and sitting together. Perhaps airlines could not allow a small block of seats to be prebooked.. maybe in the back of the plane.. and those are the seating areas used to accomodate those families with very young kids who didn't pay the upcharge.. Maybe they could require an adult who is booking with kids 12 and under to book one adult near a child.. maybe they could even offer that "for free".. to have one of the adults with the kids.. I don't think they necessarily need to do more than that. I don't think airlines are obligated to give people free access to their seating preference when others have to pay for it. If the parents don't choose to exercise the choice when they book.. seems like they put themselves in that position.
I'm old enough to remember
I'm old enough to remember those times
However, I was impressed that this airline seemed to get it right. Nobody disputed their seat and all families and couples seemed to be seated together on both flights we took. No hassles. Very refreshing.
This was almost 7 years ago
This was almost 7 years ago before the seat thing blew up but... we were on our way to one of SOs friends destination weddings. So a bunch of us on that flight were heading to the wedding. The brides brothers and their families where on that flight...
We still talk about to this day about how bad that 3 and 1/2 hour flight was because her nephews were out of control... there are a bunch of them.
It was an 8am flight at an airport 1 1/2 -2 hours away with parking... so we were all up very early and wanted to relax.
If they offered adults-only
If they offered adults-only flights I might actually somewhere haha. I just could not imagine spending all that money for a flight only to spend it in misery listening to screaming the whole time. Not my idea of a relaxing vacation. I would be like that guy who lost it on the flight... "Sir, you are yelling" "So.is.the.baby!!!" lol.
And let's be realistic, they aren't going to ban children from EVERY restaurant. It would be nice to have a few adult-only options that aren't a bar. They will always have plenty of places to practice manners.
With so many people my age and younger forgoing having children, I think there will be more of a market for adult-only venues. Birth rates are dropping in pretty much every developed country. If you want to have kids great but so many people who don't no longer feel the pressure to be baby making machines.
Breweries and wineries have
Breweries and wineries have become TOO kid friendly. Example... SO and I stopped at one of our local wineries at noon on a Wednesday two weeks ago... this place is jammed on the weekends..very big and well known.
There were maybe 10 people there and out of those 10... two girls in their mid to late 20s... one had a 1 1/2year old and it was full blown photo shoot between the kid and the girls.
Im not anti kid but FFS. Go to the zoo or something.
So places like this WOULD be nice.
Would be nice if I can charge
Would be nice if I can charge fees for unruly skid takeovers every weekend.
Delusional bio parents thinking everyone wants to be terrorized their "perfect angels" with zero home training.
Chef always allowed
The 3 ferals to do anything in public. Downright embarrassing. I often had to mouth "they're not mine!"
(No subject)
What i can't stand is the
What i can't stand is the kids with their ipads on full volume. TBH, some adults will watch videos on their phone at full volume too. Manners and class are rare out there.
THIS IS MY LIFE! SSs with
THIS IS MY LIFE! SSs with their f'n phones on full volume walking around the house. I purposely embarrassed SO in front of his friend and his wife by bringing this up... because they were both like oh no!! They have two teenagers themselves....
SO thinks nothing should bother me................. like him.
My son is 22 and when we go
My son is 22 and when we go places he's like "Look at all the little ipad babies!" It's crazy how sticking that thing in their hands just mesmerizes them so the parents don't have to do anything. Can't be good for them.
Quality parents don't have these problems with their spawn.
As for learning to behave at a restaurant.... not necessary when parents are of quality and raise their spawn from day one with standards of behavior.
I have on a number of occassions assertively told parents of ill behaved children running amok in a restaurant to get their kids under control or I woudl. I then ask the server to get the manager.
I speak calmly but with enough volume that the shit parent, their shit child, and the rest of the guests are fully aware of the situation and that the offending parents likely will be pulled aside by the management of the establishment.
My restauranteur days were blessedly not polluted by this. All of my locations were in malls with an open air cafe design so kids could be tossed over the planters to run amok in the mall instead of in my stores.
I enjoy watching people and families. Fortunately, most are decent and so are their kids. Parents of infants who have a meltdown going on should take their child out of the restaurant for a walk and a talk. Young kids should not get out of their seat. PERIOD!
Kids raised with THE LOOK! do not seem to struggle with these behavioral issues.
Funny how that works.
As for kids with legitimate behavioral disabilities, their parents owe the public calm even when their kid is ADHD, on the spectrum, etc....