Those nagging little things that mask really big unrelated issues.
So, my Lovely Bride and I had a great weekend. Filled with our usual combination of relaxing reading, hand holding, intense passion and some out of the house activities. We ran to the beach to check out the big waves from Bill's passing.
Then there was THE fight. My perspective: I use too much toilet paper, I am inconsiderate and do not drip dry in the shower before stepping out to get a towel which gets the bath mat wet, I do not clean up after anyone but myself, etc......
???????????? You think I am kidding right? Nope, I am not kidding at all.
O-Kay, my wife and I actually only have two fights. We have them periodically but we only have two fundamental disagreements.
1. How to deal with the SpermClan and the discipline of SS. This one is actually getting less frequent since the SpermClan is nearly destitute and we can exert our will on them at our discretion and they can do very little about it. That and we are only 346 days away from SS's 18th birthday when he ages out from under the visitation component of the Custody/Visitation/Support order. Most influentially, SS is making incredible improvements in his character and performance so my Wife and I have less to disagree about as far as SS and the SpermClan are concerned.
2. House work. We both hate it and neither of us participates in it in a manner satisfactory to the other. We are both graduate degreed professionals with full time careers so neither is interested in picking up extra crap at the end of the day (I bring this up not to toot our horns but to note for new community members that niether of us are stay at home spouses). Our home is usually presentable but is far from being kept in the Model Home status my wife would prefer. I am good with the clean but lived in look. She wants spotless and show room worthy at all times. We are not neat freaks nor are we pigs.
Wife's Perspective:
At least my understanding of it. We both contribute to the mess but she does most of the cleaning. (Absolutely true by the way). I pick up after myself but not after anyone else. (Also true). She does not understand why every time she uses the shower the bath mat is wet and it grosses her out. She does not understand why I use so much toilet paper.
I attempted to discuss these issues which was the WRONG thing to do. My response: I use as much toilet paper as I feel is necessary to complete the job adequately. (wrong answer apparently). The bath mat is designed to catch the water when you step out of the shower. If she wants a dry bath mat when she showers, get up earlier and shower first (really wrong answer). I rinse my own dishes and put them in the dish washer because historically I get groused out for not rinsing my dishes and putting them in the dishwasher. This way I can clearly send the message that "those are not my dishes". (really, really, really the wrong answer).
The root cause of the issue:
1. My Wife is flying out this comming Friday to visit her family which is always a mixed bag. She is excited to go (she has not been in 2yrs) but they always give her crap about not needing the nice clothes, jewelry and upscale rental car and then proceed to hint at their financial woes and needing money. She really was not upset about the toilet paper, bath mat or dishes. But that is where her emotions about her less than fiscally responsible family (and I mean all of them) manifested. My I-L's, S-I-L and her husband, B-I-L (1) and his wife, and B-I-L(2) who is now approaching destitution himself because of the ~$30K he has "loaned" to the rest of the family and not gotten a dime back. B-I-L(2) recently arrived in Iraq for his 3rd combat deployment (previous 2 were in Afghanistan) so that he can stave off foreclosure on his parents farm for 1 more year.
Her parent's house is truly a toxic waste dump and she gets very sensitive to the cleanliness of our home before she goes to visit her parents. We/She never stay(s) at her childhood home when we visit. We stay in a hotel. All of this makes my wife feel guilty at some level. For some reason this issue manifests itself in a fight about house work.
2. Rags is an idiot for discussing the fight from what I assumed to be the logical position. (Bad Rags, bad)
After the fight and after my Wife's quiet alone time and Rag's loud cleaning of the kitchen and down stairs toilet we both sought each other out where I apologize profusely for being an insensitive ass and she apologized profusely for being a nag.
I assured her that she is not a nag. There was dead silence in response to my comment on Rag's being an ass so I have to assume she agrees with my perspective on that issue. :?
I agreed to put more focus on consistent clean up and she told me she was not really mad about the toilet paper, shower mat and dirty dishes. The issue really was preparing herself to go see her high drama family.
The make up sex was great!
My question is this. Why is it that so many marital fights are rarely really about the surface issues? In this case the focus of the fight was aggravating small stuff while my Wife's family's drama was the core issue and as far as I can tell unrelated to what we actually fought about.
Anyone, anyone?
Just a random some what off topic musing from my weekend.
Best regards,
- Rags's blog
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Comments
I'll step up
and say for me, at least, it is avoidance of talking about the real problem, or being afraid to, so we choose "safer" topics to bitch about. Although, I have said to my DH, you just want to pick a fight now, for the make up sex later ! LOL ~ " I'm awful sorry you got pissed, just have to cross you off the list, of my true friends." PHISH~
I'll step up
and say for me, at least, it is avoidance of talking about the real problem, or being afraid to, so we choose "safer" topics to bitch about. Although, I have said to my DH, you just want to pick a fight now, for the make up sex later ! LOL ~ " I'm awful sorry you got pissed, just have to cross you off the list, of my true friends." PHISH~
Make up Sex fights. I like your husband Chele.
He is a smart guy.
Best regards,
Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications) To each according to their performance, screw Karl Marx. (Rags)
My guess is
My guess is that essentially, we are not always very evolved creatures when it comes to our emotions. Submitted for your analysis:
1) Our emotions and their development have probably not kept up with our environment. Reptile-brain responses (fire hot, cold bad, sex happy, mean people suck) don't always keep in pace with the complexities of: I'm feeling at once guilty and indignant about the fact that YET AGAIN my imbecile family members seemingly want me to visit but then make me feel guilty for achieving the success they wish they had.
2) We as humans are good at lying to ourselves and deflecting blame. Look at practically every bozo who cuts you off on the highway. You honk as a warning for them to not shear the front end off your car. Their response? They flip you off and yell "F you, a**hole!" Our first response to feeling a guilt emotion is often to push it outward as anger.
Only the most emotionally intelligent among us are consistently good at looking inward and having the ability to see what we're REALLY reacting to when it's an emotion that makes us unhappy or uncomfortable. Sadly, I'm sure this screws up legions of marriages between people who otherwise might be able to get along fine. Lucky for you, Rags, you and your wife are genuinely in love and genuinely able to calm the F down and look at what's really driving the fight.
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)
Belle, so you agree with my wife. I am idiot!
Just kidding of course.
It is good to get some confirmation from somewhat neutral sources. Thanks for responding.
Best regards,
Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications) To each according to their performance, screw Karl Marx. (Rags)
Ha! No, but I do think
Ha! No, but I do think your wife and I have in common that we both have husbands that treat us well and aren't too full of male ego to admit they aren't perfect! (Lucky me that my H is much better at admitting he's wrong than I am!
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)
Rags...This comment doesn't really apply to you
This comment doesn't really apply to you, as you and your wife have such great communication that you can figure out what the "real" issue is and move past it, or at least acknowledge it. But here's the saying...
"Many marriages break up over toothpaste in the sink!"
And basically, it's saying what you wrote above. Communication - and KNOWING each other - is KEY!!
You and your wife are able to move past the small stuff because you know it's the big stuff hiding underneath that's truly causing the stress! If only we could all be as lucky and fortunate!
(By the way, if you turn the water off in the shower and just stand there for a minute before stepping out of the tub, you won't take a boatload of water with you on the mat! As far as toilet paper, my husband gets on me about the same thing, but we buy it in large quantities at BJ's, so there's never a shortage!)
I'm happy for you and your wife. And I'm sorry for the stress she is about to endure!!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
I agree with Stick!
so very true!
Ah-hah! I finally caught you.
Stick,
Your comment on drip drying in the shower gave you away. YOU ARE MY WIFE----- Aren't you?
Actually, I pointed out that since she brought it up several weeks ago I have been wiping off most of the water on my body with my hands, rubbing the water out of of my hair, and putting a hand towel on the side of the tub to wipe my feet on before stepping out. All a total and complete PITA but well worth the effort ....... if only my Lovely Bride had noticed before our fight on Sun. But, as she did point out "you didn't tell me you had been doing that" :?
But, all is fine in Rags land now and we are back on your usual track of marital bliss. Until she gets back from I-L land and we have to go through the usual detox period.
It's not fair. They all work so hard but everything always goes bad for them........
It's not fair, we and YOUR family have so much and my family works so hard and has so little......
Why is it that you always bad mouth my family......... if I said the things about your family that you say about mine you would be mad at me!
(Fill in family member name here) is getting screwed by their boss/company/the man/their customer/Social Security/Unemployment/Aunt ..../Uncle ...../etc... again. Why are people so mean to my family all of the time?
I just commiserate with her frustrations and repeatedly tell her that I am sorry she has to go through this endless cycle of consequences for poor decisions with her family. My family are like the Cleavers and we all have been reasonably successful professionally. I can not of course point out the relative levels of education, sacrifice for the greater good of the family, professional experience and other qualifications or even hint that I am thinking about the relative differences in quality of decisions. I am, after all, not completely stupid. At least I like to think that I am not.
Oh well. At least I get a Man Weekend all to myself while she is off familying away. I think I will grab my tent and head to the mountains for a night or two. All by myself. Ahhhhhhh! I have to get to be one with my happy place before she gets back. She is going to need me to be extremely sensitive and supportive for a while after this trip.
Crazy I-L emotional tensions round 15+ is about to commence.
Sigh!
Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications) To each according to their performance, screw Karl Marx. (Rags)
Rags - Your wife has "channeled" me...
To give you her message... But I also didn't know about all of your efforts!! It's actually quite endearing to hear that you do all of that just so that you don't annoy your wife!!
And I just had to add... "Man Weekend" just conjures up all kinds of really weird imagery in my mind... kind of like the Blazing Saddles camping scene!
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
What a concept!!!
wow... I would have to agree with you there, that is an absolutely radical thought... compromise...
I have to admit, I was a nag to my ex-husband. We fought constantly over the temp in the house. I liked it 72, he liked it 80. It was a source of constant strain between us.
The next time around, I picked a guy that loves it 68
I would have to say though, my guy has told me that these "snippy" fights get no where with him and he has actually walked away from me when I get that way. We have never had make up sex
But the sex after a "break" for a few days is HOT! }:)
Our counselor notices that we have very good communication and it is a great foundation to our relationship. Get this, she has never seen us together! I guess we are being more careful the 2nd time around.
Immature love says: 'I love you because I need you.' Mature love says 'I need you because I love you.'
Erich Fromm
Shower habits
I could complain a little about FH's shower habits. He and I had a BIG argument about this one before. Maybe I'm just neurotic, but I like to use a towel 2-3 times before I wash it, and I do NOT like for anyone else to use it in-between my uses. Not that I care that he uses it on his clean body, BUT...he drags it across the floor, sometimes drops it on the floor, wipes up stuff off the counter with it, then hangs it back up for me to use it again. The worst was when he DRIED THE DOG off with my towel, then hung it back up. I went to use it after my shower and smeared DOG FUR all across the front of me!! EWWW! I had to re-freakin-shower after that! Since then I hang my towel away in my closet where there's no chance of him grabbing and using it for anything. lol
Ok, rags...what's the underlying issue on that one? lol
Underlying issues to this one??? You hate dogs don't you?
Ha! Sorry, I've got nothin on this one. Good luck getting your DH to keep his fingers off of your towel or at least keep the towel away from the Dog. :jawdrop:
Best regards,
Success is rarely final. Failure is rarely fatal. It is character, courage and consistency of effort that count. Vince Lombardi (with some minor Rags modifications) To each according to their performance, screw Karl Marx. (Rags)
Ok JoJo
I'm with ya girl... I would be completely grossed out if I had used a towel that had been dropped on the floor, or used to wipe down a counter... or dry off the dog!!! I'm sending you my condolences!!! And I'd also be worried... does your husband really have a hairy chest???? Or is that dog hair?
*** A rainbow just threw up on me... and now I'm sh*tting glitter! ***
travel
Rags, one of you should chose a job that requires travel. FYI, my DH usually is out of town from Monday through Thursday. We have our weekends together and my house and shower stay nice and clean!!!
Glynne
This was my favorite
"I assured her that she is not a nag. There was dead silence in response to my comment on Rag's being an ass so I have to assume she agrees with my perspective on that issue."
You sound like my husband on that one. Like BB it is far easier for him to admit to being a jerk than me. However...
I don't usually do it. Honest. You could ask him. I do it sometimes and then I fess up. He has a much worse temper than I do.
I guess you could say actually, that I'm quicker to tell him what's bothering me without making him dig it out (nag?) and he suppresses what's making him irritated til he is a tea kettle ready to boil and I NOTICE, ask, drag it out of him (a$$.)
Perhaps it's all a matter of perspective.
Recommendation
Rags,
Now, I know I have posted about this a lot recently, but it really is a good read! Mars/Venus Collide is such a great eye opener for both genders on how to handle stress, understaning the other gender's stress and how to "pick" your fights. It might help your wife with these emotional things.
Now, as far as toilet paper... ok, I am blushing here, we use flushable wipes and it helps immensely! With 6-7 people in the house, I am constantly pointing out (not nagging) that we are running out of TP all the time! It was actually BF who started using this stuff. I started using it at my home before I moved in with BF.
Shower thing, sounds like you have it covered. It sounds like you really love your wife and are happy most of the time.
I am very happy for you!
Good luck!
Immature love says: 'I love you because I need you.' Mature love says 'I need you because I love you.'
Erich Fromm
I think we go after the small things
because they are not emotionally charged and have some hope of resolution. I'm the queen of projection; when I'm upset about something deep I'll pick on something stupid and small because, in that moment, I'm sure of the small, stupid thing's validity. I was really upset last night because FH didn't listen to me. I freaked out on him for screwing up the laundry.
Nice observations there, Rags. Thanks for sharing.