Toxic victims IRL. Even when they are people that we love.
We have a dear friend who is in the throws of a divorce after a 30+ year marriage. They have no children. I have posted about the situation before.
The STBXDH cut off the DW financially over a year ago when she refused to comply with his directives. Rather than going for his throat, as I recommended, she has been taking a protect him and give him the benefit of the doubt, praying for him to wake up, approach.
Which has failed miserably. Her health has degraded to the point where I/we fear for her life. She is petrified in fear of him. She did file for the big D, had the court initiate serving him, apparently unsuccessfully due to his international work assignment, she moved out of their home and into a home he does not know about, had the locks changed on their home, re-engaged her career to gut his ability to starve her into submission, and included instructions on how he can gain access to their home in the D papers. His key is at her lawyer's office where he can pick it up. All of his shit is locked up on the house and the vehicle assets are in secure guarded storage. No doubt he is fit to be tied about that. But... tough shit dipshit.
I am at the point where my skull has taken on a semi permanent brick and mortar pattern due to banging my head against the wall of her commited toxic victim status.
She did adopt a big, beautiful, hungry, Wolf-Dog hybrid to eat his ass if he happens to find her. Hopefully for her mental health that does not happen, though IMHO it would be a quick solution to her situation and would save her some money on dog food.
But... still..... the whole heart break, power of prayer will fix him, seemingly never ending continual returning to the sacrificial alter of lost cause marriage martyrdom instead of kicking him in the proverbial gonads, ripping out his proverbial throat, and getting on with her life approach is killing her and causing tension in her support network. She is young, beautiful, scary smart, and highly accomplished. Yet... she continues to voluntarily wilt at his toxic bullshit.
In my world this is an easy button problem. He is toxic, the marriage is done, she needs to go after everything, and get on with her life. While navigating any unfolding events as they become viewable.
We do not have is side other than via their Text, e/m, written communication which she has limited their communication to for much of the past year+. That may be somewhat edited. I recognize that as a possibility. Though there is enough in his crap that supports her position regarding his toxic abusive bullshit.
Though I do empathize with her at the pain of a failed marriage. Mine ended 32 yeaers ago after only 2.5 years of marital hell. Hers is way longer though in therapy she has learned it was never good and that he has perpetrated these abuses, control, and neglect on her pretty much from day one. She has a great therapist, solid support from friends and her employer, and every prospect of a positive rest of her life.
If she will GTF out of her own way and actually live that incredible life.
She is directly responsible for his entire career and every professional job he has ever had. Her career provided the contacts for his career to begin, continue, and progress. Once that network gets wind of his crap, he is most likely F'd beyond all measure.
It can't happen soon enough. IMHO.
- Rags's blog
- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
The Stupid, it Hurts
I stayed in the toxic mess too long, smoking the hopium STBXH would change / wake up & see the light / etc.
Took 4 years before I filed, including 3 marriage counselors, countless tears, and being on the receiving end of massive betrayal, contempt, Rage/Charm/Pity cycle, DARVO, gaslighting, character assissination, and verbal/emotional/financial abuse.
I still pray for him, but have stepped out of the way to reclaim my peace & serenity. Night & day difference. Hard not to "should" on myself, but I can't change the past. Only the future.
Hopium. What a brilliant word.
Thanks for that, can I steal it?
Our friend is suffering from most of the things you had to to suffer.
I feel rage over men who treat their mate as you have been treated. I realize I have my issues and make an effort to work on myself near constantly. But, this crap is just evil and those men need to go for a hike and never return. I am blessed to have been raised by a good and honorable man of character. He is married to his life long BFF, they are each other's person. That she is my incredible mom just caps off my complete win of the parent lottery.
I try to emulate his example as the map for my own life journey as a man, husband, father, professional, etc.
I am sorry you, and our dear friend, have had to live this crap.
History Repeats
"I Feel rage over men who treat their mate as you have been treated. ... I try to emulate [Rags' fathers] example as the map for my own life journey as a man, husband, father, professional, etc."
Ironically, STBXH couldn't stand his late father, yet acts JUST LIKE HIM. And to this day continues to nurture resentment about how his dad was a selfish, prideful, angry, rotating-expensive-hobbies obsessed, negative & judgmental jerk. STBSX actually got in a huge fight with his mom & two sisters during an out-of-state visit with his mom back in December & flew home days early, raging at them & having one sister threaten to call the police. I heard every detail of that fight numerous times between then & early February when I blocked him on my phone (including our very last phone call!) & had my attorney tell him all communications to be via my attorney. I wish he'd been blessed with parents like yours, Rags, but he chooses to hang onto his resentments instead of using that experience to motivate a different path for himself (which is what I encouraged, to no avail).
What you see as "voluntary"
What you see as "voluntary" has become ingrained in her. Being abused for 30+ years is going to put you in a state where you don't know up from down. Yes, some people bounce out of those relationships and hit the ground running, but it really depends on what you were brought up to believe, what other people supported, your own mental health issues outside the abuse, etc.
Granted I don't know her, it sounds like she is making great strides in a relatively short amount of time. Until she is totally free from him, though (and it sounds like he may be part of what is holding up that process since he is out of the country), she's probably going to keep looking over her shoulder and worried that something will reel her back in against her will. Still sounds a bit like survival mode: don't say anything *too* harsh so if she ends up back around him his punishment of her won't be as bad.
You can't undo 30 years of trauma in a year. Heck, my 8 year bad relationship and marriage had me really screwed up for a while, and I still have rare moments when something triggers me into a panic or meltdown. That ish not only invades your waking life, but the nightmares and dreams are very real and can be very detrimental.
The idealized "take a stand and everything they're worth" is usually far from reality. The mentality to do that just isn't always there, and the very real violent consequences (particularly to women) of pushing back too much can cause many folks to take a more metered approach. My personal opinion on what is needed for victims/survivors is an external agent that can do the proverbial kicking of the balls and have it actually mean something and prevent much of the potential fallout. But honestly, especially as a woman, when I see stories online of women who leave and their exes snap and kill them - even after asking for protective orders, getting a gun or big dog, relocating and not sharing the new address - I totally understand why some stay meek in divorce. It either is or feels way too dangerous.
I have been there myself.
My 2.5 yr first marriage screwed me up. That phase extended into the first couple of years of my current marriage. My amazing bride and I met more than 3 years after my divorce was final and married nearly 4 years to the day that the Judge granted the divorce.
Constant rejection, abandonment of the marital home for her childhood bedroom at her parents several nights a week, rolling of eyes over inconsequential stuff, etc... it all gutted my confidence, may usually highly optimistic life perspective, and my "childlike zest for life" as my then therapist told me.
I do occassionally have some emotional backlash to that marriage even 32 years post divorce and 28 years into an incredible marriage.
I had one of those episodes today. Though emotional, it was cathartic. It came out of nowhere at something that took me a minute to realize why it impacted me so much. I was watching AGT gold buzzer moments clips. The C&W girl trio Chapel Hart sang their original You can have him Jolene.
I had a visceral emotional reaction. Partly because of their story but it was the song that gutted me. With some thought I realized that the message was not to let an unworthy low character partner to have any place in your life and heart for one second more than necessary to kick them to the curb. Yet... 32 years later even my relatively brief 2.5 year sacrifice to a crap person still can gut me upon occassion.
I truly hope our friend can get through this and keep his crap in her past as she lives a wonderful rest of her life.
I am sorry you experienced your 8yr hell and that it does invade your new world periodically. Comparatively my 2.5 years should not impact me at all. But... it still does upon occassion. I do get some Karmic gloating in on how she did the same thing to the guy she cheated on me with with the added Karmic justice he polluted his gene pool with her and will have to life with that recurring nightmare for the rest of his life as he tries to support his boys through his crap choice in their mother. I do feel for the boys. Though not their father and for damned sure not their mother.
Jolene is a great song!
A real heartbreaker, for sure.
You can't undo 30 years of
You can't undo 30 years of trauma in a year.
What Lt Dad says is spot on. In fact, it's quite possible your friend will never get over some of that trauma. For me, mental abuse was like being slowly reprogrammed. How I acted, reacted... I no longer recognized myself. It took a lot of years and a lot of work to "deprogram". To this day, there are a few triggers I have yet to overcome. DH is the only one who touch my throat. I'm embarrassed to say that, about 5 years ago, an old friend approached me from behind and curled his arm around my neck in a friendly hug (he's tall). Even though I recognized his voice, I could not stop my "survival instinct"... Next thing he knew, he was flat on his back. *blush*
Please be patient with her. It may take her years to recover.
Bad*ss Aniki!
You ROCK!
Just want to add, Rags:
Just want to add, Rags:
If her behavior is toxic to or for you, then you need to distance yourself from her for your own mental health.
If, however, her behavior is just perceived by you to be toxic, then you need to check your attitude toward her and the situation. You may still need to distance yourself from the situation, but that has more to do with an inability on your part to be supportive than her behavior actually being toxic.
It isn't fair to call her a "toxic victim" if her behavior isn't actually toxic to you. You not liking how she is handling it isn't toxic.
For sure my perspective with her is supportive.
My concern is for her alienating people who care for her and who do support her because she keeps engaging with her likely psychotic STBXH.
She has commented that some of those who have been there for her and supportive are withdrawing.
I don't want to be one of those. That is why I refer to her as a toxic victim. She is a legitimate victim. I have not one incling of doubt about that. But, she just keeps putting her hand in the flames and then wondering why her hand burns. Figuratively of course. Then she goes to her support network for support. If it hurts when she engages with him, she needs to not engage with him. Another Rags master of the obvious perspective, I know. Her behavior is toxic to herself. And is starting to impact her relationships with those who support her.
I vent here, so I can be supportive and even keeled with her.
Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.
It's a toxic dance that he
It's a toxic dance that he keeps pulling her back into. She needs to go ZERO contact and seek resources to open her eyes about his manipulations. He knows all the buttons to push. Have compassion - she left. Many woman don't leave until they are in a body bag.
It sounds like she's smart but she has a 30 year addiction to be de-programmed from. It will take time.
"In my world this is an easy
"In my world this is an easy button problem. He is toxic, the marriage is done, she needs to go after everything, and get on with her life. While navigating any unfolding events as they become viewable."
You can't really understand the insanity unless you've experienced a trauma bond with a toxic person you foolishly believed loved you. My experience with one was very brief, but healing from that toxic addiction to that person was the MOST painful thing I've experienced in my life. There was cognitive dissonance like you would not believe. KNOWING what I needed to do and not being able to do it was crippling.
She has been programmed by this abuser for 30 years. It will take her a looooooong time to undo his programming.