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Long Distance Visitation?

pastepmomof3's picture

Hello All,

It's been a while since i've been on here - honestly have to say things have been going relatively well - at least good enough that i'm not pulling my hair out. I wanted to put this out there though to see what anyone else might have to say about it.

My DH and I work at the same place and the job is transferring to GA. We're currently in PA so it's about 16 hours away. We're waiting on written documentation before moving forward but have already advised BM that this is going to happen and have tried to reach an agreement with her. DH is NCP so he now gets SS about 10 3/4 weeks worth of nights, of course spread out through the year in the form of EOW visitation and 3 weeks of vacation (1 @ christmas and 2 over the summer). So he went to BM and said he wants 8 weeks over the summer, 1 week at christmas, and the remaining time will be made up when we're in the area or over thanksgiving and easter. This seems like a "traditional" long distance visitation agreement but BM had a cow. Our attorney advised us to try to come to an agreement and submit a stipulation to the current order but if that won't work, we'll go in front of the judge. My concern is this -- she typically takes her family vacations in the middle of the summer (which would fall during DH's visitation) - has anyone had experience with the judge ruling in favor of BM to split up NCP bulk visitation to support vacations??

Anyone have any other suggestions??

This really seems like a no-brainer to me but i think i just need some reinforcement.

Thanks!!
PASM3

Comments

overit2's picture

Actually I wouldn't like this arrangement either. Especially if bm has now vacations during the summer w/the kids.
ALso-are you sure you want the ENTIRE summer and no break for yourselves to do anything? That's a big bulk of time that I would honestly not like.

We are IN THE SAME state and BM has thrown SD at bf and his parents for almost 6 weeks-and it's been excruciating.

Anyways-I think 4 weeks might be more standard. Where they both get down time "summer time" for fun stuff w/the kids. Perhaps add a spring break week in addition to the 1 week in Christmas? Yes it will be added flying cost but a bit more equitable in my opinion.

As to your move, hope you like GA...big change from PA. IF you need any help w/school/locations, etc send me a PM.

pastepmomof3's picture

Thanks overit. I think we would be okay with the timeframe especially since we were trying to get SS to come live with us anyways before we knew about the transfer. If nothing else, it's a starting point and BM and DH will need to figure something out. The only thing I've seen BM do is this year they did a week and a half in Florida (driving from PA) - the other year, they did a week at OBX. I think if she could plan that far out and stick to it, it's definitely something DH may be willing to consider. BUT, she hasn't come back with anything else so we'll see.

pastepmomof3's picture

School got out this year the second week of June so he was actually suggesting getting SS9 starting around Father's day weekend and having him the last 2 weeks of June, all of July, and the first 2 weeks of August. That leaves BM with 1 week after school gets out and 2 weeks before school begins. The thing DH is honing in on is that BM would have SS about 10 months and he would have SS about 2 months. I've heard of several other blended families that have long distance visitation set up like that. In PA, extracurriculars not associated with the school take a backseat to visitation. Anything he's been in so far has not carried over past Father's day, which is why that time was selected.

As far as Christmas is concerned, DH and BM alternate who gets Christmas versus Christmas Eve, but the last 2 years, we've gotten SS the day after Christmas for the week between Christmas and New Years, so i assume this would continue.

They haven't gotten very far in the discussion honestly. He suggested to her about us paying to get him down there and her paying to get him home and since it is such a long distance over the road, flying him would be the only reasonable method. He will be 10 this coming Christmas and would be old enough to fly by himself. It's really only a 1 1/2 - 2 hour flight.

NCMilGal's picture

DH and I are long distance NCPs.

He is allowed up to 6 weeks in the summer, but this year it was 4 - SD15 had to be back 3 weeks before school started for band camp.

BM allows us to get SD15 any other time we want - but we pay for all of the travel costs. We usually swap years; one here in NC with my mom, one in LA with his mom. So we get SD15 for Christmas when we're in LA, and she comes to NC the day after Christmas the other years.

School in the south ends in early May, and starts up in early-to-mid August. I know that the school district I grew up in (NY, 10 miles from Susquehanna, PA) ended school around the 20th of June, and didn't start again until the Wednesday after Labor Day. There's quite a difference from region to region.

pastepmomof3's picture

Thanks Trish -

That's an interesting arrangement. i think that's what worries DH honestly - he wants to start with the most and wittle it down to a reasonable amount but in the instance where school extracurriculars come into play, he'll lose time with him. He's still a little too young for that but in a couple years, we'll be there i'm sure. we're already there with SD16 and it's really to the point where even one weekend a month is getting to be too much of an infringement on her extracurriculars and such.

I figure we'll incur most of the cost one way or another but BM tends to be equitable when it comes to paying for things so we'll see.

pastepmomof3's picture

Thank you for your comments. Although they're hard to read and even harder not to react and go defensive, it's what we need to see. You've definitely given us some food for thought, so i appreciate your candidness with me.

MrsFitMama's picture

My dh has a similar request. Long story short, he requested 2 months during the summer (which is upsetting for me bc I don't want them that whole time) but said they are free to visit for 7 days for vacation with their mom. He will see them every other weekend throughout the school year, odd years for Thanksgiving, Dec 19-24, originally he then wanted them Dec 29-Jan 4... I told him he was crazy. For God's sake, do I not get a break from them for holidays?!!! I want to have my New Years too! Anyway, I think they did every other new years. He wants spring break. Every other Easter, Presidents week. As you can see, any vacation, my husband wants them. Hell, do we get a vacation without the kids??? Ugh... makes me sick.

calm retreat's picture

A long distant parenting plan should be agreed upon by both parties and personalized to meet the needs of the child. I doubt the Judge is going to decide anything at all. If it goes to court the Judge will usually send you to mediation $$$ over and over again until the parties have agreed on a schedule. One thing that helped us finally get an agreement was to pay for all travel expenses. We also added a clause that the schedule was flexible to meet the needs of the child, as long as the number of days remained the same. This allows for the child’s changing needs.

We have found that anything longer then 6 weeks gets really uncomfortable during the summer. Our SD14 gets bored and crabby because she's not in school and has no friends in our area. We both work. Summer camps usually don't fall neatly within her visit schedule. And so 4 weeks usually works out pretty well because we can take a vacation together and hang out with family. We take her for the week after x-mas because she has a little brother and she likes to see him open his presents. We also have her half of spring break and every other T.G. Yet lately she's asked to come visit every T.G. and her BM lets her. She has been making the 2 hour RT flight 4 times a year since Dec 2008. So far so good. Only one spring visit was cancelled so she could visit her grandma and we made it up with the following T.G.

Something you should be aware of is the distance is extremely hard on the kid emotionally and dilutes your ability to do any actual parenting.

Good Luck.

pastepmomof3's picture

Good points and questions. BM works from home so SS (and his half brothers and sister) stay at the house with her over the summer. There is not a community pool close to them but she takes them to the local park or something and they jump in the lake. If we sign him up for camp, which is what we suggested if he was interested, we would pay for that.

Thanks for helping think everything out.

overit2's picture

Thats the other thing-what about summer break time w/his friends? All summer is honestly not something that the child may like...and the 10 months for BM are during school time (no down/play time). I think he should start with 4 honestly-and perhaps alternating week in Christmas/New years break (our kids in GA have two weeks there)..and perhaps alternating spring breaks (again in GA there is a random week in Feb and in April kids have breaks on-don't know how PA is.

If the child wants to stay longer go from there. But it's coming across as "unreasonable" to BM and I can see why.

Also as others have said-wouldn't you like a few weeks of the summer to enjoy yourselves w/out kids there the whole time? I know I would.

pastepmomof3's picture

Good idea. We have a BD3 at home so kids all the time is normal for us. I've gained a lot of insight from this conversation so i'll talk to DH tonight about reconsidering his approach with BM. He won't like it but honestly, he'll just have to deal. I really think an in-person discussion would help too, sitting down with a calendar - that's not something she's used to doing so may be worth looking into. I'll PM you when it gets closer to time to get down there.

As far as spring and fall break, they get a friday and monday off - it doesn't offer much flexibility for him to come to us but DH may be willing to go to him, just depending. we'll see.

pastepmomof3's picture

All of this is actually about SS9 and his BM. SD is 16 and doesn't have much to do with DH thanks to her BM so we're really just concerned about SS now.

You're right though - BM is used to having that flexibility - almost taking it for granted i might add. It wasn't until this past December that they got an updated custody agreement that outlined the times of visitation because she was used to being so flexible and always getting what she wanted.

overit2's picture

I don't agree...there's plenty "destroyed" relationships in the same city/vecinity-LD has nothing to do with it. And to be honest a LOT of times LD comes about because of the bm's crazy antics of trying to destroy/manipulate/control the exh and new partner and kids relationship w/dad.

Sometimes it is the only choice to move whehter for better jobs or get away from daily bm antics and issues...

You think those parents that move away dont' sacrifice??? They do...a lot.

overit2's picture

You are incerdibly naive and make no sense in this step world but we all know that.

I understand what you're saying-she already said she'd share our comments about 10 weeks at one stretch being too much w/him...so don't keep on about it.

ALso-1/2 the transport costs....I honestly don't think it's unreasonable to ask-she CAN say no, sure. Perhaps she'd be willing to let him take the cost of tickets and her pay one of the un.minor fees?

Sometimes people move, that's life...they have a right to do so even if they had kids and are divorced. For a better job, better quality of life, perhaps to improve their relatinoship away from the drama. Everyone is responsible and has their part. I guess your intent is to "shame" them for leaving town in some way?

It's all in what they agree to on papers and can mediate between them. A lot of out of state situations involve shared transportation costs. After all the NCP is paying CS already isn't he? It's not unreasonable to ASK -perhaps he could offer to pay 70-80pct of the costs...nothign wrong with trying to negotiate a bit even if they are the ones chosing to move.

This day in age w/our financial problems and lack of jobs-relocation is a big part of our future. And both parents have to deal with it.

calm retreat's picture

SMofknowitall, You have insight and forethought. I admire that. It's true, LD is not ideal. The moving parent is the one that should be humble and adjust to the child's needs, so that the relationship can be maintained. And from experience, after moving, the child will have resentment, and possibly act out. There will be fall-out. The child will also stop needing or wanting the LD parent to parent them, it's too complicated to keep them in the loop on everything. They start depending entirely on the CP. The moving parent is essentially forfeiting their influence. It's the choice they make, and the child suffers. And yet when the parents live close together and fight a lot, the child may suffer more. I have found that there is a lot less conflict with the LD parenting and DH and SD14 spend quality time together when before it was just 2 days, 2 days there.

overit2's picture

You speak of no humility??? You've got to be kidding me...no really...you ARE joking right?

Yep, you're intent is to shame them for leaving by throwing out written 'curses' about how bad it will go in their relationship. How shitty is that.

calm retreat's picture

HA! HA! Overit2,
So true...I remember fighting so hard for as much time as we could get, and now I'm thinking to myself, "I hope she cancels the next visit" and DH is right there with me. HAHAHAHA.

overit2's picture

I know..and honestly having your kid around all the time (mine are also) vs a stepkid aroudn all the time...BIG difference lol.

If/when we move down the road-our idea of "extended" visit would be MAX 2 weeks. Maybe a max of one week lol

pastepmomof3's picture

Wow guys - i'm overwhelmed at the guidance, insight, advice, and defense i'm seeing. I'm seeing "LD" used alot - not sure what that stands for but we're moving to GA because our job is transferring. It's not for a promotion, its just because that's where work is going. I shared with DH what was being shared and it struck him - in retrospect, we went for BM's jugular - force of habit mainly due to how she is so quick to manipulate as she's done before - i talked to him for like 3 minutes and then left to go home and while i was picking up BD3 from daycare, he called BM (without getting the rest of the convo from me but hey, whatever) and he suggested trying 6 weeks or something like that and allowing her to get him during his visitation for her vacation or whatever. She seemed much more open to that. They still haven't discussed transportation but there's no doubt in my mind that she would go halves - it's just as much her responsibility as it is his to get SS where he needs to go - yes, we moved, but it really shouldn't be that much different. At least we've got the communication started back up.

In regards to SD16 - different scenario completely - we used to get her EOW and he would go to her sports events, etc. After we had BD, she distanced herself (no longer being "daddy's little girl") and really hasn't come back around. Her BM (not the same as SS9's BM) is also very manipulative and does not push her to have any involvement with DH so it stands where it is now - she comes over about once a month for a weekend that she agrees to and while she's here she's miserable, so he's pretty much counting her as a loss and is focusing on SS. Terrible to say but no judgment needed on this - it sucks, i know, but that's his decision - not mine.

I get involved with helping DH deal with CS and custody agreements and such - he gets irritated quickly and is extremely quick to say forget it. I help him respond to the BMs in an aesthetic way so as not to fuel any fires more - clearly everything is happenening between him and them but i help proofread his emails and stuff. I'm certainly not a stay-at-home mom and SS spends the majority of his time with DH - i take SS places like the grocery store or to the barber shop to get his haircut since BM can't do that and that's about it.

I appreciate everyone's input - it put stuff in perspective which helped immensely. I'll keep you updated on how things go.

Thanks!!

Bugsbunny2's picture

I can only share my own personal experience. BP's divorced when child was 3. When SD was 5 we had to move to IL from MI due to BF's job situation. The agreement before moving was every other weekend, alternating holidays, split school vacations, and 6 weeks during summer. Since we lived in the same town, SD was also with us a couple of days a week but we didn't have that in the custody agreement, it was just something we agreed to. We would split the 6 weeks up where she would go home to BM every other weekend during the summer due to her age.

When we moved, we continued this visitation schedule, we would fly her over on our weekends (1 hr flight). We paid for her flights. BM would drive her to airport and pick her up on her end. When it benefited BM during summer, she would drive half way to pick up SD. Once summer was over, she did not return the favor of meeting half way. We took her to court and won. More and more cases nationwide are going to shared transportation. I have a friend in WI that drives 15 miles to meet halfway & it is court ordered.

When SD was 11, BM had remarried and things were not going well so SD came to live with us. By then, summers were 6 weeks straight. We just flipped the visitation schedule but since BM made less than BF, we waived her child support in lieu of her paying for her transportation. We always included BM in SD extracurricular activities with plenty of notice so she could plan. SD also knew that summer visitation was more important than summer activities. Long distance takes lots of communication.

SD is now 17. She says the traveling was never a big deal to her & kind of fun. Yes, sometimes she would be bored. Even in intact families kids get bored. If she wanted a summer activity, it would just be where she would be. She did not have friends to play with most of the time in either location during summer due to schedules. BM, BF, SM, SF all worked during day. She would go to day camp or some activity for day. Other times, she had daytime babysitter who did fun summer stuff with her. You make it fun, you make it work. Summer planning means you start planning early. She played soccer for 6 weeks instead of the full 10 weeks. Which ever parent had her, paid for her activities/daycare. We did split school costs.

In late teens she did start competitive dancing which took a toll on her BM visitation because her BM wasn't willing/able to take her to competitions they were in multiple states. BM did come attend a few of them a year which was great. We always tried to find time outside of her competition schedule so she could have extended time with BM. We gave BM all school vacation times to adjust for it. We helped with transportation to accommodate child's desire to compete. It's a give and take. Plus every child's personality is different and that needs to be considered.

As for parenting/rules, yes we had different rules in each house but we all had same goal. If there was ever an issue that needed to be addressed we had a family meeting with all of us there to discuss it with child. Sometimes SD had problem with a parent, we discussed it in a family meeting. It eliminates the he said/she said. Obviously it was easier since we were only a 4 hr drive apart but nowadays you can skype to stay involved. If BM doesn't have computer or webcam, buy her one. As with any move, initial costs are higher. You just include the costs to stay involved with your child.

You probably would get shared transportation in court. It is best if you can work it out because you want that foundation but sometimes you have to go to court. You would go to a mediator first, it is usually court mandated now. Mediation can be helpful. The most important thing to remember is that the focus should not be what you want but what is the best solution for the child to get time with both parents. Sometimes people get so stuck on their positions, they forget what the child needs.

Good luck to you! It's hard no matter what.