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High conflict BM

Notup4it's picture

Let me start by saying we have hands down THE most high conflict BM we are dealing with EVER- she takes it to a whole new level. I don’t deal with her directly, never will... DH has been in and out of court for years and it looks like they are FINALLY starting to take some steps to recover his relationship with his kids, and try to counteract some of the damage she has done.

There will be set visitation time (not in our home, and I will never under any circumstances allow that after all that has happened). So he will be leaving the home and getting a hotel during those times.  She of course will try not to abide by it (like usual) but the court is finally putting her in her place. And finally willing to set consequences). 

The kids also have to go to counselling (which I know they need), but it is going to be intense and for now (unless she doesn’t abide) DH will have to pay half. Which is going to be crazy expensive. 

The expense of all this, and the still very long journey ahead makes me feel literally sick with anxiety. 

I don’t want to be selfish but I am going to be for a minute here.... I don’t want to spend the next 5 years dealing with all of this. I seriously cannot take anymore. This is far from over, and it all sort of seemed to be simmering down... now it’s gone back full swing. 

I’m just wondering for those who have disengaged for a substantial part of time now do you ever just feel like you are repressing how you feel? DH will never stop pressing this.... he acts like he is going to but doesn’t. I’m not paying for any of this any longer but he is instead getting himself into debt. And obviously with this on top of huge child support expenses we will most likely never be able to afford a vacation together or  new home, or another child, or anything normal people would hope to afford in life. 

I feel so incredibly resentful as this is 100% attributed to a severely personality disordered ex. And yes it isn’t fair to DH- but none of this is even remotely fair to me. 

I feel like I’m spinning my wheels here. I feel like we will never get onto the same page here, and I’m starting to feel like it is all just too much for me. I can see right now there will be tons of legal expense down the road, tons of term oil and drama. For those of you who did stick through it do you regret it?! Do you wish you would have gotten out long before? 

When I voice my concerns about these expenses I get that it isn’t his fault and he is doing everything he can, etc etc. This BM is hell bent on ruining his life, she will never ever ever give it up. Plus there is already so much damage to his relationship with his kids due to her I’m not sure he will ever rectify this. This is all be done so he can show them he fought to the bitter end for them. It’s great and all but I don’t really know if I want to put my life on hold for all of this forever.

Notup4it's picture

I realize that societal norm is “Fight to the death.... mama/papa bear”— but These actions impact my kids too and I feel fed up. 

I detest the “what’s wrong?!” Im getting from him. Because I’m sure my face looks like I’m facing a life sentence right now.

He is always the good guy, and of course I look like a jerk if I say ditch this trainwreck now dude. 

But what do I do bite my tongue forever? Do I just let him sink himself? I know you can try to have things as separate as possible, but we all know that no matter what reality is their decisions and financial situations DO impact us and our lives too.

 

Notup4it's picture

I honestly don’t know!!! 

I walk away, he sinks himself in debt and he can’t afford to put a roof over his head and do all of this. He still loses his kids, plus me and our family being one unit. She is a venomous snake and he will face so many more legal battles, counselling costs and who knows what other schemes from her.

i stick it out and put my life on hold... possibly go crazy in the process. Things will never be normal in this situation. Like I said snake who will never let there be peace of any kind.

He walks away and let’s the lunatic raise the kids however she wants, cut him from their life and doesn’t see them- possibly never see them again? And then I don’t know what emotional state I would be dealing with 5, 10 years down the road from him.

 

Well This Isn't Fun's picture

I relate in a lot of ways. Him being gone for visits will give you some time to yourself to process. This is his life, but it doesn't have to be yours. Take some time and focus on yourself and what you want. Good luck. 

Notup4it's picture

Talked to one of my close friends today and got that none of it is his fault and that I need to be more understanding.... and she looked at me like I had 2 heads over my concerns.  

Then also spoke with a work friend who is going through something quite similar and she was commiserating- turns out they are spending even more.... and her boyfriends ex is almost just as bad with the attitude as well. 

I don’t know if I am being selfish and I know it’s not directly DH’s fault or anything... but wow is it ever a lot to deal with. I guess that is the MO of BM, try to be as difficult as possible to destroy lives.

Survivingstephell's picture

You need to find shirk4men.com  If nothing else, spend some time there soaking up the wisdom of HCBM's and how to deal.  You can follow her on FB too.  

 

Notup4it's picture

That site looks great! Thanks for sharing!! 

We both have criminal restraining orders against her... for some pretty serious stuff, so LUCKILY don’t communicate with her directly. She now just uses the kids to create as much mayhem as possible... extreme alienation, and having to fight crazy stuff she does through court and lawyers. The more we push the more she “works” on the kids. They are all severely brainwashed, it is classic extreme alienation, and they all are dealing with mental illness themselves now.

The ones getting the brunt of this now are the kids. The courts are finally stepping in to try to resolve this, but I’m certain as they try the more it will cause flare up from her and she won’t stop at anything so financially and I’m sure emotionally we are in for an even bigger $hit storm (us and the kids)-

Chelsearg's picture

im sorry your dealing with this. I have been a stepmum for 8 years and regret not getting out sooner. Hubby is amazing but the stress and emotions and abuse I have had to endure is something no one should go through. Don’t feel sorry for your partner, think about yourself. Do you want to deal with this for the rest of your life? Yes the rest of your life. Even when those kids turn 18 your still going to have them in your life and come across BM at family events if the kids have kids or get married etc. this sucks for your partner but he had kids with someone and unfortunately we all know that things can go pear shaped. Your hubby is going to go into debt. This is going to affect your life and your kids life. What this situation takes from you as a couple will take things away from your child. You may grow to resent your partner as it affects your life and this situation will consume you.

sorry if it sounds doom and gloom but I wish I had someone to tell me this.  

Notup4it's picture

Nope this is what I need to hear... I’m just needing to know with extreme high conflict BMs how things turned out. 

We will never be in the same room or speak with her, but she uses the kids to get at him. And they are severely alienated and aggressive towards him, and refuse to have anything to do with me or anyone in his family (parents, siblings, cousins, etc etc). 

I know that he is wanting and trying to make things right and it is an extreme injustice.... but so much of me only sees the situation being better if he walks away. His parents and siblings say the same. 

Chelsearg's picture

Personally from my experience it will never get better. Hence websites like this being created for people struggling. 

You may grow to resent your partner, having stepchildren traps you. You can’t move away, your life revolves around their visitation, you will miss out on opportunities as you cannot move anywhere or chase your dreams. As you have already stated, financially you will loose out, you may never have your dream home or be able to afford your own family holidays, you will forever be fighting against a system and children who have already been manipulated to a point where you won’t be able to change there thoughts. You may never be able to have a child together due to the financial reprocussions of having these step kids. You will both forever have to live with the stress of fighting the system and the abuse that comes with it. The kids may very well change once they hit 18 and can have their own lives however that is unlikely and even after they reach adulthood you will still see the ex in their lives. Being a step parent is a ridiculously huge sacrifice. 

Chelsearg's picture

find an amazing councillor who will help you as a couple. Your hubby wants to do the right thing and fight for his kids however he also has 1 life to live and he can’t keep fighting such a toxic battle. It will destroy you both and is very unhealthy for all involved. Could he instead show his love by writing letters each month and sending photos and sending  birthday and Xmas gifts so they know he is still here and thinking of them if they would like to know him. That way he’s not completely giving up and he’s also not destroying himself in such a toxic mess. 

Notup4it's picture

We have a therapist for us dealing with BM.... she told DH a long time ago to let this go, send them letters or even write them, keep in a box and send when they are adults. 

DH will say he is going to disengage and then his lawyer seems to sucker him back in every time. She seriously hates his ex and finds it such an injustice, and she knows exactly how to get DH all riled right back up.  “You can’t just give up your parental rights and walk away, don’t do that to your CHILDREN”.  Next thing you know DH is all guns a blazing. Amd of course she doesn’t care she has made mad cash from DH. But I point anything out and it’s “You can’t just walk away from your kids, what she is doing is abusing them”.  And yes she is emotionally abusing them....but the courts cannot stop her quickly enough and it takes years and years to work through issues so severe, endless amounts of money.... and then kids will be adults and worshipping mommy in the blink of an eye here.

Chelsearg's picture

maybe he needs to give her an ultimatum. He can tell her he’s done fighting and will write letters and send gifts or whatever and he’s no longer fighting. When she says “oh you can’t walk away from your kids” then he needs to respond with she’s left him no choice and say he wants this and that (within reason) and if she says no he needs to say he’s done. If she really wants him in the kids life’s she will drop it at some point and need your partner to be involved for something and realise what she’s done. 

The lawyer needs to be dumped. That is there job to make money. In fact I wanted to study law and was told by a number of lawyers that family law is the most financially rewarding career to take in law. More than property! The lawyer is milking you for all you have. Your partner should see the therapist consistently to help him let go of the situation. 

Notup4it's picture

BM does NOT want them in the kids life. She actively and passionately alienates him and wants him to walk away.  It is her way to “punish” him... for honestly, I don’t even know what? She did the same to her first husband as well, she has severe borderline personality disorder.

it is the lawyer who keeps stirring the pot. I have told him many times she is after the money- but he has had her for a long time and seems to think she is fantastic. If anyone says otherwise he thinks it is an insult to his judgement. 

Yes maybe back to therapy.... hopefully she can convince him to put a lid on this. She has even questioned his lawyers integrity.... and her speciality is actually in family mediation 

Survivingstephell's picture

If this lawyer is sooooo fantastic, why is this still going on?  Why hasn't he won anything?  Why?? Money. plain and simple and your man is a sucker.  

amyburemt's picture

HCBM will never improve or get better and most likely will create havoc as long as your dh is around. I used to(and still do occasionally) dream about the day I could walk up and punch her in the face once the kids were old enough for her not to win them back in court. I totally get that it wouldn't actually solve anything but it would make me feel a heck of a lot better for sure!  Enter my logical husband, the guy who answers her craziness with just pure logic. I asked him once if he is ever just going to tell her off and tell her what a crappy parent she is and stick up for me(most of her spewing is about me). his response was that it would never solve anything. Occasionally women just need a guy to have their back. I don't think i'm going to wait for that. I guess you have to look at wether your situation is something that you can live with. Do you just need a breather from it? would it help if you just asked him not to involve or talk to you about it at all? Is the counselling the last step in getting everything back on track or is there possibly going to be even more court battles in the future? Has he considered asking for full custody? Is there any way you can do a mini vacation for a few days with him with the rule no discussion about kids or court to give both your minds a rest away from it? Do you have an outlet for stress such as going to the gym, doing a hobby, something that takes you away from the house once a week?

thinkthrice's picture

just go running back to the motherrship about 95 percent of the time after dad pours thousands of dollars down the legal black hole.  Look up Dr. Craig Childress on youtube

Notup4it's picture

I pretty much know that is whaf will happen, I think that is underlying whaf is ticking me off so much.  Will go through all of this and in the end the kids once adults will fully ditch him and realign with mommeeeeeeee as soon as he can’t stop her via legal methods. So giant waste of money and time. Everyone in his family is telling him the same thing, but his lawyer keeps sucking him back in and is very skilled at guilting him... he is a nice person and a great dad so of course wants to do the “right thing”. It isn’t like I don’t want him or myself to have a relationship with them I just know that with the level of crazy his ex is that we will forever be in for one hell of a ride.  The kids don’t actually even know why they are alienating him... the reasons are vague and mostly to do with ‘you keep taking Mom to court’ and ‘you lie to us’ (they can’t even articulate what it is they think he lies to them about. Just a matter of time before she starts throwing serious accusations into the mix regarding the kids I’m sure too. Everyone who is involved knows she is nuts, but have to keep going through this huge process.

thinkthrice's picture

to make any headway is if the HCBM assumes room temperature or signs off on her parental rights moving to the end of the earth with a no-contact order and you get full custody.  Then the de-programming begins which is about as successful as court-ordered detox.

Sky101's picture

I was this stepparent except without the debt and child support. The crazy ex-wife and new stepson. It was a lot to take in. It felt like I carried more weight on my shoulders and more stress. Drama that I did not need in my life. I married my husband and over the years my relationship with my stepson grew stronger. I wanted to fight for him and did and won. But if I didn’t do it for him or care about him I probably would have gotten out of the relationship beforehand. It was a lot of emotional stress I had to deal with. 

allsop12's picture

Just walk away - you & your husband. Enjoy your lives, move on. She'll come around once she realizes how bad she's screwing up her kids and maybe she doesn't. Either way, not your concern.

Siemprematahari's picture

First don't apologize for how you feel and secondly there is nothing wrong with wanting more and realizing that you're in a situation where you feel stuck and dont have much room to grow. Lets state the facts here. You are not happy, you are doing your all in this relationship and nothing has changed. Your H says its not his fault but guess what, its not your fault either and he shouldn't be ok with burdening you with this.

In the end you have to look out for you and yours and what makes you happy. Do some soul searching and ask yourself do you want to be in this same predicament for the rest of your life? If not, then you have your answer but if you stay, be prepared for a life time of misery. You dictate how you will live your life. Don't live feeling guilty because the only person you owe something to is YOU. Your H wants to get himself in debt that's on him but you don't have to go down with him.

Ispofacto's picture

DH needs to put the rope down and walk away.  He can pay CS until they age out.  If they are ever sane enough to realize he's their dad, they will come around.

 

Notup4it's picture

Same thing our councillor has told him... then lawyer swoops in and works double time to guilt him and back we go....

thinkthrice's picture

is out to line his pockets with your money!

Notup4it's picture

Oh absolutely is!!!!!!! Every time DH has said “just drop it”, or “fine I’ll agree to whatever I just want this over”, or “I don’t have anymore money to keep going with this” it is met with.... “You can’t just give you your parental rights!!!”, “You can’t give up on your children!!!”, “What she is doing is wrong and you need to take a stand”, “Do you want your kids to think you don’t care and that their mom is right?”, “You are going to walk away and let your children be emotionally abused like this?” Are some of the many things this lawyer has said. 

It’s funny cuz the lawyer has said that BM is the most difficult person they have encountered in Their ENTIRE 30 year career, that she is impossible, evil and on and on.... and how bad the lawyer feels for DH because whatever happens she just pulls something new. 

But DH is a sucker and keeps getting sucked right back in to it anytime this idiot lawyer flaps their guns. 

tog redux's picture

My DH felt really guilty giving up the fight for his son - it took me a while to convince him that "giving up" and "letting go" were not the same thing. The truth is that the way Family Court is set up makes alienation worse, and so does the traditional therapy that judges order and BMs refuse to comply with.

Thankfully, my DH's attorney advised him to stop the fight. Best thing that we could have done, though it was really, really hard at first. I also made clear to DH that I was not up for any more legal battles. I wasn't funding them, and he was pulling his weight financially, but emotionally, I was done. I couldn't spend all my time focused on that anymore.

My SS was lost to PAS for 3.5 years and recently resurfaced (somewhat unfortunately, as all the stress is back too).

Rags's picture

Start nailing this Lawyer with ethics complaints to the BAR.  She is milking your DH as a cash cow.  If she was worth a shit she would already have delivered a successful outcome.

We changed attorneys mid stream and went from merely winning to total destruction of my SS’s toxic SpermClan.  Our first attorney was about the group hug and lowering our expectations so we wouldn’t be disappointed.  For my money I wanted results rather than platitudes.  So we went attorney shopping.

When we found our shark he asked us some key questions.

1.  Are you doing this for the best interests of your son or to punish bio dad? (The answer was ....both)

2.  This could take a long time with significant cost. Are you prepared and able to bear the expense?

3.  If I don’t think that what you are attempting to accomplish is reasonable or likely will you consider alternatives that I recommend.

I wrote him a retainer check on the spot.  Ironically he has commented over the years that he was hopping for a cash cow client when we walked in the door.

Lol

 

 We referred a number of clients to him and he has made good money on our relationship.

We spent $10K+ over 2yrs beginning when SS-26 was 1yo with the placator and including the adult adoption that SS asked for when he was 22 we spent barely $5K over the next 20yrs and we kicked ass in and out of court.  A letter from our shark on his legal letterhead set the SpermClan quaking in their shoes and they jumped into line in a hurry.

I would suggest that you outline a meeting agenda with your DH and that the two of you get synced on your equity life partners strategy to save the SKids, destroy BM, and protect your family.  You are both successful professionals.  Act like. Partner from that perspective and execute your strategy together.

Now for a couple of questions.  

1. His old are your SKids?

2. What are BM’s resources to go toe to toe with you and DH?

Destroying her quickly will preserve your collective marital resources and should be something that you  and DH set forth in your strategy.

First thing..... get rid of the money sucking bottom feeder lawyer.  Get a shark.  Go to war.  Most importantly never forget that your attorney works for you.  If they are not delivering to your expectations fire them and find a better one.  Attorneys are a dime a dozen.  Good ones are rare.  Don’t settle for anything less than s shark.

Notup4it's picture

Thanks Rags. 

I do think it is a lot easier for custodial moms dealing with loser dads.... much more difficult for any lawyer to deal with a psychotic borderline BM who is already custodial and hell bent on making DH’s life hell..... unfortunately. 

The lawyer does piss me off because she won’t give it a rest, but I do think that she has gotten as much as any lawyer would have in this situation.  A few things she went the round about way with which did cost more money.... but I think she is doing all she can compared to BMs actions.  BM DOES get into a lot of crap in court.... but the judges are never willing to do much about it— more just a lecture, hand slap and then she just carries on. She won’t sign things and creates all sorts of chaos. 

The kids are all teens/preteens. From what I have read it is not frequent that alienation cases are resolved through courts before they are adults.... just lots and lots and lots of back and forth. 

There is one lawyer I know of who might have done a better job. But it has also been the case that this lawyer has been letting us pretty much payment plan her- otherwise we wouldn’t be able to do this at all. Right now we owe her 20k- most lawyers would have wanted that up front. We do have the money in DH’s home (which his ex was ordered to sell 2 years ago).... it has gone back and each judge keeps giving her extensions because she has the kids living there.

it is so hard, and just a bad situation.