Rant of the day
How to give support- this is something we can witness in person but a lot of it is online, including on these forums. Just please be thoughtful and kind.
Instead of: Well, my DH would never do that
Try: It really sucks when your DH hurts you or mistreats you, he’s an as*
Instead of: I would never put up with that behavior from my husband
Try: What would you say if it was your best friend, daughter or little sister that told you what you just said about your situation
Instead of: Well, my husband would never speak to me like YOURS does
Try: DH is acting like an as* to you, and him name calling you is NEVER ok-please stand up for yourself.
Instead of: I don’t know how you can even begin to put up with this kind of situation, I would never do that
Try: I’m sorry, this is so hard, it’s not ok, you deserve better, I hope you find the strength to go after it
Instead of: I would never stay in an abusive situation like this
Try: Abusive situations are never ok, you need to leave for your own well-being, I can help you make a plan or give you some resources
Instead of: I would never stay in a marriage like that and be so unhappy all the time
Try: You are incredibly unhappy, it’s not worth it, you can and need to do better. Life is short
Instead of: My DH would never leave me stranded like that, I would never let him disrespect me
Try: Your DH was a di*k, hope he eats sh*t. I will cyber punch him for you
Make it about them, make it about their spouse – and it’s ok to even insult their dh’s because we are mad they hurt our friends (cyber or IRL)- but please for the love of god, do NOT keep comparing yourself OR your spouse when ‘helping’- it’s fuc*ing condescending as hell, it’s ‘help’ wrapped in an insult and undermining the other person and their choices. They would rather make YOU feel worse about yourself, your choice, or who you are married to than help them feel find a healthier place. Or implore you to get help, or get out, or find happiness- you don’t help someone by telling them what YOU or your spouse does better/behaves better than theirs. I find that so incredibly rude, emotionally abusive, condescending and out right toxic. It reeks of sense of superiority. There has to be a more accurate description for this behavior. Quit projecting your own insecurities -quit trying to make yourself feel better by putting others down. It’s IMO a deep sign of insecurity in your personal life in marriage as picture-perfect to outsiders-but if you have to do that much convincing over years, that shi* ain’t real, quit frontin!
El Fin
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Comments
Thank you!
I see this in comments all the time, although Im not remembering if I have or have not done this.
I do hate when one of the eagerly awaited comments includes the above mentioned references.
I dont think my marriage is completely bad or completely good it is what it is and we grow from these things.
Comparing is just not going to help me, just makes me feel much worse than I already do.
I don't think I've ever seen
I don't think I've ever seen you do this Clove. And yeah, it's just not helpful. In one scenario, I've even pointed this out to a regular offender, so it's not like they don't know they are doing it, they just continue to do it despite being told how wrong it is. I think a lot of times we aren't aware and can do this w/out noticing, but the bottom line is this:
Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.
I agree 110%. Another that
I agree 110%. Another that gets me is the need (for some) to focus on what was: why did you do that? You shouldn't have done that? Yet another way to make someone feel worse. Like they need that when they're already hurting. Sheesh. Instead of talking down to the person hurting, focus on the freaking problem and how you can help.
Thanks for your quick action
Thanks for your quick action earlier Aniki! You're the bestest mod!
Thank you! I cannot take all
Thank you! I cannot take all of the credit. Dawn got one, too.
Love this! I'm not the best
Love this! I'm not the best at giving advice, but those comments always rubbed me the wrong way. Some of us are already having a hard time, don't kick them while down.
Ignore
When someone posts something I dont agree with, or has an attitude, I just skip right on down to the next. Lol. But, I agree, some folks are in a fragile state when they post and don't need, "Coulda, shoulda, woulda".
Right? Like beating a horse
Right? Like beating a horse when it's down.
Thank you for this! I know
Thank you for this! I know that I've been guilty of this. Will do better.
I'm on the fence about this.
I'm on the fence about this. I understand what you're saying, but I do think there are times when saying "I wouldn't put up with this" is appropriate.
Example: my family and friends encouraged me, either actively or passively, to stick it out with my XH. A few times, a friend might say "that's not right how he reacted" or "wow, what he said was rude". But I didn't have the internal understanding, or self-esteem, to realize how bad the situation was.
It took new friends - some bold friends - telling me that they wouldn't - and didn't long-term - tolerate that same behavior for me to recognize that it was, indeed, that bad. Telling someone their husband is a d*co and you should leave them can mean very little if it's coming from someone who hasn't been there or you know has been there but tolerated the behavior anyway.
Personal stories are powerful. People are more likely to listen to advice from people who have experienced similar situations and are willing to share.
So, feel free to tell folks "I wouldn't tolerate it" so long as you can follow up with your own personal story of how you didn't or how continuing to deal with it is having consequences on your life.
But I agree that just saying "I'd never do X, Y, and Z" when never having been faced with that situation isn't helpful.
If you are on the fence about
If you are on the fence about this blog I get it because this is what you have done in the past. You made some of those remarks. I remember you told a woman she was a bad mom because she was trying to get out of a bad situation. This blog is about putting yourself in someone elses shoes. FYI life is not perfect and just a tiny bit of kindness and how we say things makes a huge difference. I think that is what this blogger is trying to say. PERIOD
Yep, I'm guilty of this. Many
Yep, I'm guilty of this. Many are. OP is guilty of it, too. We all have bad days, get triggered by different blogs, etc. OP's message isn't a bad one, but there are times when using your personal experience is useful.
And yeah, I have a real short fuse with adults when I think kids are being abused and the parents are focused more on saving their relationship than protecting their kids.
LD- I don't think I've said
LD- I don't think I've said 'my husband would never do what yours does' actually- though we ALL can sometimes be guilty of being insensitive or not truly helpful, as you said, sometimes you have a bad day.
I made this post because I"ve seen this IRL with some people- I also see it on this board a lot, there are posters that are notorious for this behavior, even after being told how distasteful it is- so that goes from having a bad day, being thoughtless at the moment-to intentional behavior.
Everyone can have a short fuse in those situations, again, it's just NOT ok to rub in their face that YOUR situation is better or that YOU would never live through it because you are-well-superior. I don't think you are reading my post or even understanding it actually.
No, I get what you're saying.
No, I get what you're saying. Be kind, don't act superior, the language you laid out gives off their vibe - I get it.
What I'm saying is that not everyone who approaches those conversations saying those things does so because they feel superior. They do it because that's how best they communicate, or because it worked for them to have it presented that way.
Queensway has been after me for a while about calling someone a bad mother and she found that unkind, and I'm assuming finding it totally in line with my character that I have issues with kindness and putting myself in someone else's shoes.
And I do have issues with being able to do that. And we've all been less-than-kind. But I think the VAST majority of folks on this board are trying to deliver advice as best as they can. And every person who receives advice needs it delivered differently.
How you propose wording things is good for some people, and is very kind. But it doesn't always work to frame things that way. That's my entire point.
I know that there are times
I know that there are times when I'm so intent on getting the message across, that my ...'delivery' could use some work.
LD, IMO, is typically well-spoken and puts a lot of thought into her advice. Maybe the delivery doesn't always set well, but her intent is good.
However, there are times when, no matter how carefully you word something, some will find offense.
Thanks for this bananaseedo,
Thanks for this bananaseedo, it's written in a very helpful and supportive manner.
I know I am guilty of comparison, but (I think) I stick to like things rather than throw out a contrast. As in my SO is similarly moronic. My dad was the same kind of man-child. Or even my MILs cloven hooves match your MILs.
Since I habitually use a hundred words when three will do, I take the scenic route to encourage the reframing of a situation that I found helpful, or even empowering, when I encountered a situation that brought about similar feelings.
It's rare that I share the actual experience that allows me to relate. Perhaps I should do that more often. Then maybe (big maybe) I won't sound like such a dick most of the time.
I don't think I've ever clutched my pearls and backhandedly implied some superiority, whether SO or myself. If I have, I'd be ashamed of myself and you all should send me vibes of the throat punching variety. Or at the very least, call me out on it.
Thanks again for the post, bananaseedo. Thought provoking (is that sad?). A good reminder that we don't get to decide the weight of our words, that's up to the person receiving them.
Awww, thank you HowLong! So
Awww, thank you HowLong! So many people struggle enough as it is. And let's face it, most people reaching out already know their situation is crap, or their marriage is struggling or their partner is selfish. I think telling them or reinforcing is ok as we are validating their own feelings, but comparing them to 'our situation' being better or that you/your spouse would never do...is just like salt on the wound. It makes people feel even worse.
I think those comments
Sometimes come from trying to convey to a poster "you deserve more" or "better" is possible. LTD said it very well.
Sometimes I read posts and wonder what path some posters took to lose so much of their self-worth along the way.
Sometimes the path starts out
Sometimes the path starts out pleasantly. You get a few mosquito bites, scratched by twigs, trip over a tree root and skin your knees.... The path keeps getting worse in small ways, but you don't know how to get off the path. You get lost. No one is there to ask how to get home. Or when you find someone to ask, they talk about how stupid you are or how could someone like you let that happen. So, feeling stupid and even more worthless, you keep plugging along because you don't know what else to do. Until you end up in the hospital, near death. And I'd've gone back to that path because I was so lost and beaten down. Thankfully, someone loved me enough that, when he saw the truth, he took drastic measures to block me from going back.
I wasn't always a strong woman. But I sure as hell am now.
This is so absolutely true.
This is so absolutely true. Many of us have lived through some very bad situations and came out on the other side- but when you are beaten down badly, it's not helpful for others to be callous or insensitive, or outright mean in their approach, as you said-it only serves to keep you there.
There ARE certain situations where sometimes you HAVE to be more harsh and blunt to shake an abused person out of it. On an abuse message board of support, we had a poster like this- and trust me, it was several years that people gently tried to help her, give advice, she outright would get hostile or argue things she said in a previous post, deny things they said, defend the guy, go back, try to rationalize....eventually the board got harsh, but there were children in the middle and it was a very extreme situation, we finally had to get her to FULLY grasp her staying was abuse by proxy-she was allowing her children to experience this and kept justifying it. She would go back/forth about leaving. Eventually with people getting firm -she eventually left the guy and STAYED out -but it was a few years process I tell ya. Even then though, we had the occasional toxic poster that would be over the top and in her approach would also sometimes compare her wonderful life/marriage/decisions to further stick at her. She did other manipulative/passive aggressive digs in the name of help, she was called out- she was angry at the woman for staying and would say things to emotionally abuse her further. That is never ok.
I answered a hotline for
I answered a hotline for abused women. Some will stay regardless of what you say. A friend of mine, J, stayed too long. She was 7 months pregnant. Her husband was beating her when their 4yo son ran in, yelling, "Stop hurting Mommy!". Her H picked him up by the throat and threw him across the room, into the kitchen wall. J couldn't tell if he was dead or alive. H turned back to J and started hitting her again while she begged to check on their son. He hit her harder. She was able to pull open a drawer behind her and find a knife. One stab. Self defense. Her son had skull fractures and a broken arm. J had to have her facial bones wired and had broken ribs and countless contusions. She lost the baby. Her in-laws testified against their son, recounting what a monster he was.
She has been in and out of mental facilities. Her parents raised her son. That hotline? I answered 3 of her calls. I know her, worked with her, but nothing I (or anyone) said could make her leave; help her. She will never be okay and no one can pinpoint why or where it all reached a point of no return. We can only be thankful that monster didn't kill their son.
I have never done this to
I have never done this to other posters on here but some love to do it to me. The only reason I stay is because of the nice ones like you.