OMG Please advise can BM do this?!?!?
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DH got Covid two weeks ago. DH informed BM so SS would not come over till DH Quarantine was over. DH Quarantine is over and he's symptom free returning to work tomorrow.
Well here is the PROBLEM BM being the controlling bitch she is wants DH and ME to submit her a copy of our negative Covid test BEFORE she allows SS over. Legally can BM do this?? DH has a custody order that says this Christmas he gets SS. I for one do not want BM to have my personal medicine information. Honestly this is just one more way BM try's to control DH.
1. Does BM have the legal right to refuse DH his parenting time intill DH provides BM with negitive Covid records?
2. How would you respond to BM regarding this request and if she does refuse to release SS to DH
I don't know...
In my situation I probably would go ahead and get a covid test and let her have a copy, provided there wasn't any personal information on there, like ssn or something like that. As a mom myself, I'd want to know that the house my children are going to is covid free. She could genuinely be concerned about sending SS over and him catching covid. Or it's another way of her being a controlling b**** disguised as a concerned mom. Legally I doubt she could, but I'm no lawyer so I don't know. I'd ask a lawyer about that. If she refuses to let dh have ss then call a lawyer is all I can tell you. It may depend on state laws, what's in the CO, etc. The BM in my situation probably wouldn't have asked for it, just asked us to keep her posted on when our symptoms went away, then sent him to us when we were both symptom free. When he moved in with us we would've asked the same of her, that she be symptom free before he went to her home. My SS is an adult so we haven't had to deal with BM drama for years.
As a practical matter, it
As a practical matter, it doesn't matter if she can legally do it. If you don't provide negative tests, DH misses Christmas with SS. Maybe she'll get a slap on the wrist if DH takes her to court for contempt, but at that point Christmas is over. Your DH has a good argument - CDC guidelines don't require a negative test to end quarantine and courts have prioritized and enforced custody orders throughout covid. But what does that get him? Not this Christmas with SS.
As someone who works in the
As someone who works in the healthcare field, if DH had COVID 2 weeks ago, he will not test negative for at least 90 days, so BM will not be able to get a negative test from DH anyway. Most people test positive for COVID for months after they recovered from the virus, which is why a lot of countries for travel are requiring either a recent negative test or proof of a positive test taken within the last 6 months. If DH completed his quarantine and is cleared to return to work, that's really all he can do. Ultimately though, BM is going to do what BM is going to do.
Everyone is correct that court would be a waste of time and legally, no BM cannot make those demands, but clearly she will and you and DH will have to comply if you want to see SS for Christmas. Otherwise, you can file contempt, take BM to court and request Christmas next year to make up for the Christmas lost this year, but there is no guarantee a court will side with DH and its a lot of time, money, and energy.
Interesting. My sister is a
Interesting. My sister is a nurse who has to test weekly because she refuses to vax (don't get me started). I believe she's been testing negative on her weekly tests, though I don't talk to her about it. Wonder how they know if someone is really not covid positive on those weekly ones? Not asking her, I barely speak to her right now.
I worked in a nursing home at
I worked in a nursing home at the height of COVID and we had several staff members contract the virus. Some were symptomatic and some were asymptomatic. If they tested positive, they could not test for 90 days because it would still flag "positive" that whole time. We tested it on a few staff and found that to be true, every single one of them still tested positive at 30, 60, and 90 days after recovering from the virus, even though it was clear that they were no longer sick. As long as they had COVID (or tested positive) in the past 90 days and completed their quarantine, they were fine to return to work.
We tested twice weekly. If our rapid test came back positive, we had to do the longer test and were sent home until the lab results came in a few days later. If that test came back negative, we could return to work. If that test was positive, we had to complete our quarantine (asymptomatic or not) and could return to work when our quarantine was over.
I don't know how they do, I'm
I don't know how they do, I'm too annoyed to even discuss the subject with her.
That's so strange, my
That's so strange, my daughter and husband stopped testing positive right at the 10 day mark
Just with anything....
Everyone is different. OP's DH might also but they can't count on it but that raises a good point... Maybe OP's DH should get tested and see if he is negative he might be...
Exactly, if he ends up
Exactly, if he ends up testing neg, problem will be solved
"Wonder how they know if someone is really not covid ...
"Wonder how they know if someone is really not covid positive on those weekly ones? "
As castle stated above that is why they have to show the proof of the positive test within 6 months. The Positive doesn't just go away when quarantine does.
Another conversation for another board but your sister is a nurse and if she gets all other vaccinations and won't get this one you might want to look at that and wonder why? what does she know as a medical professional that we don't. She also has the right to make her own decision and if that is why you are barely speaking to her, that is ridiculous. She is your sister in a noble thankless profession while you can disagree with her decision all day long choosing not to speak to her is sad. People are ending relationships far to easy over this... just saying... it's Christmas and our families have been through a lot over the last few years... don't loose a sister over HER choice. I wouldn't normally say a word but you added it and put it out there.
My response to BM would be ..
My response to BM would be ... Lol!!! I do not believe there is any legal precedent for this but maybe she can take it up with the Supreme Court???
Only if you let her.
Only if you let her. TIme for daddy to start smacking his X with a contempt motion each and every time she denies him his COd time with his kids. No doubt the CO sys "Respondent will have visitation from XYZ to LMNOP........" Nowhere will it say "unless BM .....".
This shit just pisses me off. What either party can and cannot do is in the CO. Keep a rolled up copy handy and beat the snot out of her with it each time she violates. Figureatively of course.
this exactly
this exactly
"What either party can and cannot do is in the CO."
"What either party can and cannot do is in the CO."
True but this is new territory for courts and I think each situation would be taken individually, until a time when language starts being added to CO's about such things as illnesses like Covid and the Pandemic.
As a mom I too see BM's side of this. I wouldn't want my child exposed and OP and her DH should understand that too. It could be another BM ploy but we don't know that for sure and the bottom line is you want SS and as peacefully as possible. If at all possible I would get the test, show her the negative for you but certainly not give it to her or let her keep it. Show it or DH show it. Explain to her that DH won't have a negative test for a while and suggest she talk to her doctor, health department of the CDC about that fact. You are showing effort and doing all you can this way. Se if any of that makes a difference.
I am all in on the test of reasonableness.
If BM is being reasonable, then deal with her reasonably. If not... it is game on.
Denying visitation is a game on decision on her part. Regardless of all of the outside variables. Including the Pandemic.
IMHO of course.
We just put the proverbial tape line down the middle of our home last evening. My staff member/office mate just tested positive on the self test yesterday afternoon and on the PCR test last evening.
So I am quarantining per the CDC and our corporate guidelines. My bride moved to the guest room and we are both home officing. She is a full timer regarding home officing. I am doing it for the next 3-7 days. Our corporate requirement is 3 days post last close contact with a known positive individual. CDC says 5-7, My first contact was Monday, last contact was ~Noon yesterday. I just self tested this AM and am negative, so far.
My parents who are in their late 70s and vaccinated (though they have not yet had the booster) were due to arrive today for the Holidays. I called them last night and asked them to postpone. As much as we want to spend the Holidays with them, I/we will not jeopardize their health. Not even when the risks are neglegiable.
I am fully vaccinated (1,2,3 and the Flu vaccine) and am not particularly worried. My office mate and I, though in an enclosed space nearly all day every day together, are both fully vaccinated, the room is about 400Ft^2 and we are fairly diligent at masking, social distancing, and sanitizing.
I will do a second self test on Saturday. I will then go for the PCR lab test and return to work on Monday if I am negative.
Overstepping by the blended family opposition is a hill to die on for me. We battled it with SpermGrandHag for the 16+ years we lived under a CO.
No, she can't legally do this
No, she can't legally do this. But if she delays long enough she can take Christmas away.
I would send it, but block
I would send it, but block out all information you don't want her to have. even if it's a patient ID number or time or location it was done at. I would just send it to her with your name, the fact that it was negative, and the date nd time it was done....
MY problem with it, is that I've heard where people were testing positive for MONTHS after having covid.
Better than a BM then sent her home
My BM sent the step kid home w/ my husband had COVID... so I am torn on this one...
I'm going somewhat against
I'm going somewhat against the grain here and saying that I can't blame BM wanting a COVID test from you even if DH is past the two week window. He may be done with quarantine, and he may be symptom-free, but that doesn't mean (to BM) that you didn't contract COVID at some point while your DH was recovering, which would put you in the two-week quarantine window.
This could be BM being controlling or it could be her being cautious but previous behavior is making it appear controlling. Her request, to me, isn't illogical.
She has no right to request
She has no right to request medical information from them, though. She can express concern, but then she has to trust and follow the CO.
But she has a right and
But she has a right and responsibility to not expose her son to COVID. It's a crap situation for BM because she *knows* someone in the other home had COVID, and she *doesn't know* if anyone else did. Does she have a right to ask for it? No, but I also think she's not being unreasonable to ask for proof, either. This, to me, is a situation where flexibility is a must. This isn't the flu or strep throat.
I just don't think this is the hill to die on from OP and DH. DH was infected. OP should have gotten tested at 5-7 days post-exposure. If she has the negative test, black out everything except name and test result. If BM is still a pill afterwards, file contempt. It's not an unreasonable request even if she doesn't have the "right" to ask for it.
She's not the only parent
She's not the only parent here, he has joint custody and is responsible for her too. And he has court-ordered time. She's essentially saying he's an idiot and can't be trusted with his own kid. No court would support this.
I don't blame her for being concerned, but demanding a negative test is not reasonable to me. I would not go along with it. She can trust, or violate the CO. Most states decided early in 2020 that COVID was not a reason to violate ordered parenting arrangements, so she would most likely be in contempt.
She'd be in contempt, be told
She'd be in contempt, be told not to do it again, the kid would miss Christmas with Dad, and BM will still feel that she was right for protecting her kid from COVID.
There is no winning in this situation.
I'm surprised you feel a
I'm surprised you feel a father can't be trusted to protect his own kid, and that it's okay for a mother to take his time away out of her own fears. Would you be okay if a father with weekend custody did the same thing?
This has little to do with
This has little to do with trust and everything to do with not spreading a deadly virus.
Asking Dad to submit a test is silly because he could still show positive. OP should have gotten tested between 5-7 days per CDC guidelines. If she did, Dad can either tell BM that OP tested per CDC guidelines and is negative or OP can share that test result. Dad can also share the link to CDC guidance stating that they followed protocol, here is the protocol, and all is well. If after that BM is still being an arse, IMO she is purposefully trying to be in contempt of the CO.
There is absolutely no way I'd trust ET when it comes to COVID. My coworker's MIL lied to them about visiting another family member who was sick and then got her, her DH, and their daughter sick. Nope, sorry. I'm Team Trust-but-Verify when it comes to COVID. There is a solution here that will show whether BM is being cautious or callous, but OP and her DH have to decide if they want to be flexible. I think they should be in this specific situation.
$10 says they provide a test
$10 says they provide a test and she keeps the kid anyway. And then does something similar whenever she wants to withhold the kid. No way would I do this for BM.
So BM should trust that Dad
So BM should trust that Dad has the child's best interests at heart, but Dad should assume that BM is just doing it to be a pill?
Not everything a BM does is ill-intentioned, and we need to stop looking at it that way.
In my opinion, only a
In my opinion, only a controlling person would do this. If not, she'd realize she doesn't own the kid and her ex has a right to his parenting time. Clearly he kept the kid away when he had COVID, so he does care about the kid's well-being. She has no right to demand anything.
And BioDad does not know who
LeutenantDad,
And BioDad does not know who in BM's life, home, family is or isn't COVID positive or actively exposed, etc, etc, etc...
This is a rabbit hole of infinite complexity. What if's are not reality regardless of whether or not they may become reality in the future.
I like your reasonable solution "tested at 5-7 days post-exposure. If she has the negative test, black out everything except name and test result. If BM is still a pill afterwards, file contempt.".
That is a very good point!
I never thought of the fact that OP could have contracted in that 2 week window. Also anyone else in the household. Are there other children? Honestly to Lieutenant Dads point I think anyone in OP's household would need a negative test. While this could be BM causing an issue she does have a very valid point.
Let's reverse the situation
Let's reverse the situation guys. Stepmom is concerned because her SD is coming to visit, BM recently had Covid and is in recovery (out of quarantine)- but SD never tested as she didn't have symptoms.
Stepmom has a newborn at home, or an elderly parent she cares for regularly- would she not want and expect SD to take a Covid test before visiting? We all know how we woudl respond here to that. We would demand she tests or skips visits.
I don't see anything unusual w/her request, that said-she does need to understand that your dh's covid test WILL more then likely show positive as is the case with everyone that has recenly had Covid and in recovery.
We have a Walgreen's you can go to for a rapid test- get a text or email same day advising if you have it or not, no fee. It doesn't have any pertinent medical information. You can then fwd that text or e-mail to BM to show that you are in the clear.
Her request is NOT unreasonable.
I think the DELTA is in the
I think the DELTA is in the direction of Skid flow. The receiving household seems to have the most firm platform for requiring an incoming germ conduit to have a negative test immediacy prior to arrival.
The sending side is in violation of CO if they do not surrender the Skid per the visitation schedule. The receiving side is not in violation if they refuse visitation. The onus is on BM to send the kid, it is not on the NCP to accept the kid.
The script flips when it is time for the Skid to go back to the CP.
COVID does inject a notable level variable complexity into the whole picture.
Not A Hill For Me
While I understand your frustration, these are unprecedented times. CoVid. And while I think this is a power play for BM, it would be so easy to provide the test results. Just black out all personal info. I don't have young children now but I'd have major concerns when it came to my children and CoVid especially if my kids weren't vaccinated.
Two options: Provide the test with personal info redacted, or do as Tog said...."all protocol has been done. I'll pick up SK at X time."
I DO not agree with being
I DO not agree with being forced to cough UP medical info to hand over to an ex spouse.
. Your bm is an ass. Does she really think dad would put HIS child in danger. He is clear to return to work, which I trust is paying her child support---she needs to follow the order OR take it up with a sitting JUDGE in an emergency hearing. Here we go again with unilateral decisions.
She needs to follow the order as it stands . That is the rules.
I am so sorry.
I'm shocked that everyone
I'm shocked that everyone thinks this is fine! I get the need for her to ask, but to demand proof? Hell no.
The current CDC guidance is
The current CDC guidance is that you can end isolation, 10 days after a positive test and at least 24 hours after the cessation of a fever and other symptoms. That should be enough for BM. But that doesn't mean it will be and legal wrangling will not be resolved for Christmas.
We're having similar wranglings with BM right now, but it's just all about the drama. We told her that our DD (who is 1, so can't be vaccinated or masked) tested positive after SSs were with us, but on the day they were with us, so they were exposed. She is relatively asymptomatic, so we wouldn't have known she was positive if we hadn't tested her in advance of planned travel. On that same day, we got an email from her daycare that there had been an outbreak. In response to DH's message, BM demanded to know how much exposure SSs had to DD (DH told her), she also demanded to know if DD had been tested again (did not share, since DD's health info is not her business), demanded to know our travel plans (did not tell her, since it's not her business, but clearly, we did not travel since we are all in isolation), and then raged a bit about New Year's (which is DH's holiday this year). DH told her that he'd send an update closer to New Year's and wouldn't take SSs if any of us had covid. BM sent an angry response telling DH he was "asinine" for thinking she'd send SSs if he had covid, that it was "illegal" for us to travel if covid positive, and that he was making it sound like he didn't want SSs for New Year's and she'd be "happy to have them" (which is what she always says when she has plans and doesn't want Skids around). She was basically just trying to start drama. DH sent her two messages with four sentences total and he got six, mulit-paragraph messages in response. SSs are still with MIL and so far, have been testing negative (on day 6 after exposure). DH and I are still testing negative. So, looks like everything will be fine....but the moral of the story is that a HCBM will use anything to create drama.
When COVID started, I was pregnant and DH has health conditions that make him high risk. BM didn't know I was pregnant, but DH suggested that he skip visitation to limit his risk (and risk to SSs) and BM had a fit...now she's having a fit about something, but I'm not sure what. She doesn't want them to come to our house, but does want them to come to our house?
I'm sorry that your DH might miss his Christmas. If you have a lawyer, you could potentially have them send her a letter (maybe hand deliver it) indicating the CDC guidance and that if she doesn't follow the custody schedule they will file contempt charges against her, but that doesn't mean that anything will happen to her if she ignores it. And if you don't currently have a lawyer, this wouldn't be an option before Christmas. Courts in general, have been fairly silent, I think on this issue. Initially, lockdown guidance indicated that it did not supercede custody orders in some states, but I'm not sure there have been any cases related to actual instances where a child or parent has had covid. Family law likes to assume people can work these things out on their own...which is funny, because if they could, they wouldn't likely be divorced.