Question for those with teenage stepkids and crazy bm
DH has full custody of ss15 almost 16. We live in a different state and ss is supposed to go visit bm this summer for 8.5 weeks. The CO states that ss goes to bm a week after school ends and returns the week before school starts. SS does not want to go that whole time. The family counselor suggested a week break around 4th of July since SS has plans he would like to fulfill with friends. Initially, BM said no but now she is changing her tune to a 4 day visit over the 4th weekend which would cost us a fortune since prices are so expensive that weekend. DH suggested she pay for half the flight which she probably won't do. My suggestion is that ss stays with us until after the 4th then he goes to bm and wouldnt return to us until the day before school starts. It would be an even exchange and ss gets to do his plans. He still has to go for 8 weeks which he hates but he seemed ok with it. BM said she would think about it.
My question here is: BM is notorious for saying she will think about it and then not follow through. SS said he just wants to go with the option where he doesnt leave until after the 4th. By this time SS will be 16. In the state where our paperwork is filed, a child gets to decide at 14 where to go. If we decide just to book the flight for after the 4th, would a judge even do anything to dh? Just a question in case we get stuck here. She did agree that he could come but won't commit to dates.
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My OSS is is nearly 20 and
My OSS is is nearly 20 and lives with us on breaks from college, and YSK is 16 and lives with us FT, visiting BM EOWE and usually half of breaks.
This type of situation is always tricky in my book. In my case specifically, I know BM doesn't have internet, doesn't have a second television, doesn't have a room dedicated for YSK, and doesn't have any of their stuff. She also doesn't have the means to go out and do anything with YSK, and my understanding is that they barely talk to one another when they're together. They also fight, and when that happens, BM's response is to call DH to pick them up. Ultimately, long trips with BM are not ideal, and YSK is not a fan.
If the situation is similar for your SS, I think BM is being unfair to want to "trap" SS in another state for 8 weeks in order to uphold a CO. I'm not saying parents need to make sure their kids are always entertained, but there is a level of comfort that should be afforded to another human being during their time off from their job (for kids, that's school), and not providing the basics but demanding the maximum right to visitation is just mean to the kid.
Even if BM in this situation was lovely, had a room fully furnished for SS, had trips and vacations planned, etc the CO doesn't seem fair to SS. It isn't realistic for a teenager who maybe has a summer job that they need/want to work, or sports/band they have practice for, or just for socializing and learning to become independent. It's also not fair to the custodial parent who only really has time to do the "hard work" and doesn't get much (or potentially any) downtime with their kid. I think the "eight weeks at summer" is fine pre-high school, but once high school hits, teenagers need to have a bit more control over their time. I'm not saying SS shouldn't spend 4 weeks there, or have two, 2-week trips or something. But an eight week block is a lot.
Now, these are just my feelings on this. That doesn't mean sh*t in court, and a judge could really go either way. Honestly, I think that it's a bit late this summer to have the conversation about whether SS follows the CO or not. I think he should follow the CO. SS can advocate to BM to try and get something set up, but ultimately, she's entitled to that time and SS does need to spend time with her. SS needs to also be told that he shouldn't be mad at his mom if she says no to his request because it is her time and he needs to spend time with her. Basically, SS can ask for a change, but BM shouldn't be villified if she wants to stick to the CO.
Now, for NEXT summer, I think your DH should have a conversation with an attorney to update the CO to be more realistic for a teenager. Whether it's eight weeks that starts after the 4th or two 3-week trips or whatever they can come up with, I think it would be entirely reasonable for your DH to approach it differently for next year. Given SS's age, a modification is likely going to be pretty easy. BM may get upset by it, and I can't fully blame her. She realistically gets two more summers with her son before he's a legal adult and can choose whether he wants to visit her or not. She likely wants to hold tight to the limited time she gets with him. But, I do think she needs to be flexible here, and she risks alienating her son less if she compromises and works with him versus sticking to a pretty rigid CO.
There's a lot of room for compromise here, it just may be too late to do anything about it for this summer. Keep trying to work with her, and if she decides to change, make sure to get it in writing that she decided to. If she doesn't, tell SS that BM is doing what the court told her to do, and he can spread his disappointment around but not pile it all on her. Then work on a solution for next year, first with an attorney and then with BM. Even if BM isn't agreeable, a court might be. But for this year, I wouldn't chance SS leaving until after the 4th without written consent (text, email) from BM. Judges are just too wishy-washy and could end up making the situation worse by promising extra time next summer or at other breaks, which will only irritate SS more.
SS Should work it out with
SS Should work it out with his mom. That being said - No court is going to do anything about a 16 year old not wanting to spend the whole summer away. Get tickets after the 4th.
That's what our attorney said
That's what our attorney said as well. He agreed that a judge would tell bm and ss to work it out.
I think you wait to send SS until after the 4th.
I think you wait to send SS until after the 4th. BM will have to send SS back the week before school starts no matter when the summer visitation actually starts.
A toxic opposition will manipulate even a COd mid visitation period for the CP. Our CO had this exact stipulation for SS's 5wk summer SpermLand visitation. DW had a COd week with SS in the Spermidiot's locale any time after the end of the first week of their 5wk summer visitation. They finished what was left of their 5wks after DW's week. They never allowed DW that time, so we just shifted the start of their summer 5wks so we could do what we wanted when we wanted to do it. They had to notify us in writing 60 days prior to any COd visitation they intended to take. After the first few years of the CO we learned that they would not allow DW her mid summer visitation week to spend with SS with her family. My ILs live in SpermLand. So... we stopped accepting their requested summer visitation start dates and just told them when he would start his summer visitationw with them. By the time they may have whined to the courts he would have been on his way to them any way. So, we let them rot until the date we were ready to send SS to SpermLand. They could accept that visitation start date, take a later visitation start date, or ... forego the summer visitation. The more they delayed, they risked losing part of their 5wks if they delayed too long and backed up against the end of summer deadline to have SS back home to start school.
They also never notified us in writing so if they bitched that we did not surrender SS to them on their requested date we highlighted the 60 day notice of intent to take their COd visitation in writing element of the CO.
At 16 and only having ~two more summer visitations to deal with, I am not sure the view is worth the climb to go after an ammendment to the CO regarding the duration or start times of the summer visitations.
The CO states that ss goes to
If that is what the CO states, that is what he should do. Unless he is in danger going there, follow the co. Tell him there will be time to catch up with his friends after the summer but he needs to go spend this time with his mom. It doesn't matter that at 14 he has a say in the state that your CO is filed in. He doesn't get to make this choice at 14.
I'm actually surprised by
I'm actually surprised by people saying not to follow the CO. Many folks on here, if they were on the receiving end of a BM making a unilateral decision not to send a kid, they'd lose their minds (and most of us would say it's unfair, file for contempt, etc). It's a crappy CO, IMO, but it's the CO. If BM wants to follow it, as NCP, she has the right to. OP's DH shouldn't usurp it just because his attorney says he probably can.
I think you have to go with
I think you have to go with the CO unless you have a documented meeting of the minds with BM of an alternate plan. SS should not think the 4th is an "option".. because the only person who can dictate what the options might be are his mother.. it's HER time that is being impacted. I'm not sure where the kids have a choice thing comes in... or whether it's more like the idea that a child's preference in where they want to live is taken into consideration by the courts.. but usually it's not so cut and dried as "kid gets to choose".
AT this point the right thing to do is contact BM.. AGAIN and tell her that you need a FIRM answser by X date on whether delaying her custody time till the 4th will work out for her or not. Tell her that if she does not respond by X date that the assumption will be that what is in the CO will be followed. That it will mean SS will miss some things that are important but his relationship and time with her is important too.. so in the end, if she doesn't respond, you will be following the CO for lack of other guidance.
And that is the bottom line.. sure it's tough for a teen to be away from his friends for a whole summer.. but it's also important for him to have a relationship with both parents.. so that is why this schedule was developed right? just because he wants to do something he considers more "fun" doesn't mean he should be allowed to drive the bus here.
I'm also looking back at the
I'm also looking back at the conflict over counting days for her time during breaks..
Like do you count the travel days in her days or his. Technically.. my thought would be that the days would be counting "overnights".. so the day he arrives at her place is his first overnight there.. that is a travel day.. and I would hope that in booking the flight he wouldn't book them punitively .. so the kid wouldn't get to her house until 1159 or something like that. BUT.. the day he travels back is his dad's day.. so basically it would mean that he would have a FULL 6 days with mom.. plus the ONE day of travel to her where he sleeps at her place that night.. but the day he travels back and sleeps at dad's place is dad's day.. so you can't count both travel days as days in her allotment.
I am guessing that because she has had her time so limited.. she wants to get every ounce of time that she thinks she is owed.. and honestly.. in this case.. I think you stick with the CO as much as possible because you will likely find that it just reduces friction for everyone.. the CO is what the CO is. If it needs clarification.. like on what constitutes "days" per the CO.. then have that added to it. I would say that since his dad has custody so much of the time.. I would be likely to think it would be fair to err on her having a generous placement of the marker.. and not reduce her time too much at all.
Even if it means that your DH doesn't get much of a winter break... because he has so much other time throughout the year.. to be with his kid.. she doesn't.