"Trapping"

The blog written earlier today got me to thinking about this.

Many of these BMs seem like they have crazy histories. Before I have sex with someone, I like to know about their history, and if they have any mental issues.

Many of these guys didn't love the BMs. But they had some sort of relationship with them, and had sex with them?

Most of these guys aren't victims.

Anon2009's blog
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here we go

here we go again......*sigh*......most aren't butttttttttt some are........

i deleted it.....much like

i deleted it.....much like this one needs to be deleted before the village burns down....

yes, you can delete any of

yes, you can delete any of your blogs....

DH was not a "victim" - he got drunk, she got drunk and she got knocked up on the second date. They went out once more, he was over it. A few weeks later she showed up saying she was preggers. Either give her $ for the abortion or marry her but she wasn't having a baby without a father again... sigh.

Yep- he has a girlfriend when

Yep- he has a girlfriend when he was in high school who had an abortion and he always swore that he would never do it again and he just really wanted to be a dad and a good dad.

yeah... funny huh? And it

yeah... funny huh? And it amuses me to no end that he proposed to me knowing good and well that my tubes were tied and I would not be having any more children.

**Edit- make sure you read this with lots of sarcasm!

My DH was a straight up dumb

My DH was a straight up dumb ass thinking with the wrong head. 2 freaking condoms and some common sense would have saved he (and eventually I now), A LOT of grief and a shit ton of money.

^^^^THIS, Amen!

Seriously... I make no

Seriously... I make no excuses for him and neither does he. He knows he was acting like a dang dip wad and HIS actions/inactions are to blame for the state of his affairs now.

I hate this... my DH/BF/SO was "trapped" nonsense. Nope, your DH was DUMB

"I hate this... my DH/BF/SO

"I hate this... my DH/BF/SO was "trapped" nonsense. Nope, your DH was DUMB"

^^^THIS^^^

Yes...THIS^^^

I don't think they are

I don't think they are victims in the sense that they chose to have sex with someone knowing that there is always a possibility for pregnancy. I think that it is shady for a woman to intentionally get pregnant and not make a decision agreed upon by both parties. Either way, they are both responsible for the consequences.

^^^Tog, I love you....that is

^^^Tog, I love you....that is all.....

I <333 both of you! LOL.

Car theft and consensual sex

Car theft and consensual sex are two totally different things. Rape and consensual sex are two different things.

When did men become absolved of all responsibility when it comes to planning parenthood? Condoms are inexpensive and can be bought at CVS, Walmart, etc.

I don't think it's a double standard at all. Each person should be responsible for themselves when it comes to consensual sex and planning parenthood. Guys who claim to be "adults" should know of condoms and the things THEY can do to prevent unwanted pregnancies. It's not on the BMs to look out for these guys.

Men aren't absolved, they end

Men aren't absolved, they end up paying through the nose. I would like a show of hands from every person who NEVER made a mistake in their life or trusted someone who ended up betraying them..

... which again drives my point home. Don't be a dumb ass, lazy ass, trusting ass... just plain ass.... and wear a stinking condom!

I know I didn't, because I

I know I didn't, because I was ULTRA choosy about who I slept with. I actually take responsibility for myself and don't expect someone else to. I hold myself to high standards.

I do believe there are a lot

I do believe there are a lot of stupid people out there that never should have had kids. Men and women. But I also believe that a woman can "trap" a man if she does it the right way.

If the man has sex with the woman, that he had not known very long, and he decides to NOT wear a condom with the knowledge that she is NOT on birth control...then he is a dumbass.

If he is in a long term relationship and is lead to believe that the woman is on birth control, and she is not, and he does not wear a condom ....he was trapped.

Willow, you JUST hit the nail

Willow, you JUST hit the nail on the head...EXACTLY what happened with my DH with BM....exactly....

What I'm saying is given the

What I'm saying is given the fact that people can't be trusted, that it is and has been common knowledge in this day and age that people can and do lie about birth control and given the fact that pretty much everyone knows that if you father a child with a woman, you are going to be paying for that child out of your nose for at least 18 years and just the mere THOUGHT of being saddled to a woman that you aren't 100% positive you want to spend the rest of your life with, should be enough indicator to a man to just wear a condom.

I guess it's just like the "consequences" we are always talking about for crappy acting skids. you play (without a condom) you could very well pay. That's a chance that a man CHOOSES to take.

"Men aren't absolved, they

"Men aren't absolved, they end up paying through the nose. I would like a show of hands from every person who NEVER made a mistake in their life or trusted someone who ended up betraying them."

I'm talking about preventing the pregnancy. Why do they get absolved of preventing it? If they don't want to become parents, they can buy condoms. Once the child is here, yes, they do end up paying. And I'll bet many of them wish they'd saved themselves thousands of dollars by getting some condoms.

Rape is different because the sex is non-consensual. And most of these "men" were not drunk or drugged up when they were having sex with these women.

^^^^^agree agree agree.......

But anon, the issue is

But anon, the issue is whether these women are trapping men. By definition what they have done by lying and misleading with the intention of keeping someone IS trapping. That's what a trap is. And where there is a trap, there is a predator and a prey. I'm not saying men shouldn't smarten up and wear condoms regardless of what someone says butt hat regardless, they are still victims.

It isn't up to the Bm to look out for them, but it isn't up to the Bm to purposely do it either. There's the difference between an accident and premeditated.

They're not victims. Many of

They're not victims. Many of these guys had 0 intention of being with BM for a long period of time. Yet they still hopped into bed with her, more than once.

I'm curious if it makes you

I'm curious if it makes you uncomfortable to think of men in general as "victims" and women as predators who "trap"?

As I said, it's a definition issue. What do you call the act of attempting to catch a person or animal for your own end purpose through the use of deceit, manipulation, or camouflage? What do you call the person/animal who fell for your deceit, manipulation, or camouflage?

I agree that they should have wrapped it up, but by the definition I am used to, they were "trapped" and they are "victims." I am judging it solely on that.

Victims aren't always solely blameless. But sometimes as a product of their upbringing, they may not have had that kind of guidance or taught, as Former have to her children, to protect themselves. Some of the elderly were not taught not to give out their information to fishing attempts. They are victims too. They know that people can get into everything if they have their SS number, but they still believed those predators who, with sweet words or a sense of urgency, lied and made them believe they had a legitimate reason for getting it.

It's not so black and white.

amen to what Not2sure said!

Stealing a car is illegal....

Stealing a car is illegal.... Getting pregnant is not.

Forcingly raping someone who is fighting you off is illegal whether you were just on a date with them or not.

Leaving your reproductive future in the hands of someone else=poor decision making and dumb. Whether she said she was on BC or not, he should have been handling his end of it if he didn't want a kid. The pill isn't 100%, forgetting to take it and meds make it even less effective, not to mention STDs. Men are 100% in control of their reproductive destinies, if they chose to give up that control to another person, that's entirely on them.

Duplicate, sorry

Stealing a car is illegal....

Stealing a car is illegal.... Getting pregnant is not.

Forcingly raping someone who is fighting you off is illegal whether you were just on a date with them or not.

I've said it this exact thing

I've said it this exact thing so many times already. No one deserves something bad to happen to them just because they trusted someone.

I think though, to answer your question tog, our society has a negative base view on sex to begin with, so people assume if something bad happens as a result of it, you are not a victim because you deserve it.

We don't have a negative view on dating someone or expressing ourselves immodestly in clothes (usually anyway), so that if someone date rapes someone else saying that well, they met us halfway by going out with us and fooling around with us but not going all the way, it's considered unacceptable.

However, I did recently meet a guy who was pretty insistent that if a woman dressed like a whore and she got raped, it's her fault and "what can you expect." Needless to say, I stopped being friends with him. There are still people out their who view date rape as the girl's fault so it stands to reason that it's the same for this.

Remember, a woman has a right to say no at any time. Even halfway during intercourse. Sure she engaged in it, but that doesn't make it okay for the guy to continue if she does not want to. It is not her fault AT ALL if he continues and rapes her and she certainly did not "deserve" it.

I give you my body for mutual enjoyment to partake in an activity. I did not consent to anything more or anything less. I'd view it just as disgustingly if a guy poked holes in condoms to get his gf pregnant to keep her, and I knew someone who got pregnant because her bf replaced her birth control pills with the one week off one, because she was going to leave him. She trusted him, he broke that trust in a way that she will now have to carry for the rest of her life. She kept the baby because her beliefs prevented her from getting an abortion.

Anyway. I guess we could go back in time and say if a woman doesn't want to get raped, she shouldn't go on dates with a guy or fool around with a guy because that's just the risk you take.

Like Daizy said, these guys

Like Daizy said, these guys are dumb. You said that your DH had sex with BM (and it doesn't sound like he was raped by her). It sounds like he had sex with her more than once. Yet he didn't love her. Dumb, dumb move on his part.

I guarantee you it was dumb

I guarantee you it was dumb and he beats himself up for it all the time. Just because someone was "dumb" doesn't give another person the right to control their fate or harass them, or make them do or become something they don't want to.

Is a woman dumb for trusting a guy won't hurt her if she goes to his apartment after five or six dates and nothing happened? Is it her fault that seventh time he DID hurt her? No. In any relationship, as in the interaction between two people where there exists some level of trust, people have the right to feel safe, and if someone violates that trust, it's on them. Sure there are warning signs but some people go ahead and do it anyway, then it's their fault?

So a guy is a bit controlling when ordering food for you and him, or he raises his voice a little when you guys are arguing, or grab your arm a little too hard. It's okay, he tells you he'll NEVER hurt you. Get married, and he beats the shit out of you. Were you dumb for believing him? Yeah. Maybe. But did you deserve it? Nope. Not one bit.

There are too many variables for each situation, but the one constant is that a liar is always in the wrong, and the person who believed them is always a victim. In any scenario no matter what. Human beings have the capacity to trust,t hat's what allows us to have the relationships that we do. Anyone who abuses trust, in any way, shape, or form is vile to me.

This is all IMHO. I know we disagree on this point but as someone who has made mistakes and know I am not above being tricked, I have compassion for those who have gotten tricked, and disdain for those who do the tricking.

I guarantee you that if he

I guarantee you that if he wanted to, he could have talked to a lawyer about signing his rights over.

I've made mistakes too. However, I'm also very choosy about who I spend time with and let into my life. I was taught to take responsibility for myself. Comparing this to rape/abuse is in poor taste. Most victims of abuse/rape were forcibly restrained, drunk and/or drugged up. Most of these "men" were not any of those things when they were f@cking around with BM.

Unfortunately you can't just

Unfortunately you can't just sign your rights over in the US (not sure where you are?)

The issue at hand is whether human beings should not be given a basic level of trust in all aspects of their interactions with others. As I've observed here, and in real life, the issue of sex seems to be one where there is an idea that since one is the penetrator and one is being penetrated, the penetrator holds the greatest deal of responsibility, and it is inherently considered an immoral act.

Obviously, in situations of forcible intercourse, this idea works in favor of the one who was penetrated, while it works against the ones who are doing the penetration.

Rightfully so in that scenario. Not so much in other situations of sex. It's quite prevalent even in the issue of rape. A majority believe a man cannot be forced to have sex with a woman, as Project Unbreakable's male survivors have shown. Thus we tend to assign a greater amount of responsibility in situations of force and lying to the male.

I think it's a societal thing. We still, in our minds, believe men are less likely to be dominated and victimized. I don't know if we can achieve true gender equality with this as possibly a biologically inherent idea.

This is just what i observed, I think it's an interesting subject.

Anyway. everyone has their own beliefs that we may or may not agree with. This is an issue of belief, much like democrats vs. republicans, pro-life vs pro-choice. It's about what you believe is more important in your hierarchy of values. i view lying as worse than being stupid or not careful. Some people view being stupid/not careful worse than lying.

And I know it is impossible to change opinions but a good healthy debate is always welcome for me.

Unfortunately you can't just

Unfortunately you can't just sign your rights over in the US
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can if you are a woman...

Wait, what? When can BM's

Wait, what? When can BM's just sign over their rights to the BF without a stepparent willing to adopt the children? I know at least signing over rights work both ways.

No..I am saying that women

No..I am saying that women can sign away their rights period. And a lot do. If a woman does not want to be financially responsible for her kid, she can just place it up for adoption.

OH you mean the adoption

OH you mean the adoption issue. Yeah, I know that but that's a whole 'nother can of worms. Guys can't decide to just check out like women can when it comes to whether or not they want to be responsible for a kid.

^^agreed

' i view lying as worse than

' i view lying as worse than being stupid or not careful. "
____________________________________________________________

Lying IS wrong. Is that to say that there is no blame to be had for making stupid or wreckless choices? I don't believe so. There are consequences for every decision we make. The consequences that come as a result of the choices WE make are ours to own.

I think there's a

I think there's a miscommunication. I agree they should have personal responsibility for not wrapping it up, I am not arguing not that point. What I am (hopefully) trying to get across is that the definition of a victim and trapping is what the women are doing and what the men are.

I would just like to see that the women get punished for lying rather than the men being told to suck it up.

I think the women should get punished and the men should do whatever the law says they should, lol.

I completely agree that the

I completely agree that the guys should have wrapped it up and that they should take personal responsibility in this, but that in syntactical terms and technicality, what the women did was trap.
and thus, a man is a victim is he gets trapped.

On the personal responsibility thing: That's why I don't drink when I'm at clubs, and only do so in the privacy of my own home, or at dinner in a restaurant with my friends or my husband. I carry my own water, and don't accept drinks from other people. In hindsight, the few times that I went alone to some of my guy friends houses was stupid, and even though physically I've had the training to protect myself, things could have easily gone wrong too. I recognize that as I recognize that I am lucky nothing ever happened to me where I needed to put my training to the test. But if something did, I think the fault goes largely to the other person, and not myself, although goodness knows many victims blame themselves much more,

I see this thread going down

I see this thread going down like a flaming turd.....quickly....... }:)

well Tog, i'm a woman....and

well Tog, i'm a woman....and as a woman, i KNOW how deceitful some can be...period....

That's an untrue

That's an untrue statement.

Why does it have to come down to one being right & the other being wrong? I haven't read where anyone has said that it's acceptable or right for a woman to lie about BC. I HAVE read where people have said that the man holds no blame for having created children with a woman he chose to have sex with.

Of course the woman who lies about BC is wrong to do so. However, the man is also wrong to blame her for getting pregnant when HE CHOSE to screw her without being responsible enough to take his own precautions.

BRAVO on dramatics though...

"Why does it have to come

"Why does it have to come down to one being right & the other being wrong? I haven't read where anyone has said that it's acceptable or right for a woman to lie about BC. I HAVE read where people have said that the man holds no blame for having created children with a woman he chose to have sex with."

^^^THIS^^^

I don't think anyone here thinks it's ok for women to lie about BC. I am saying that these men aren't helpless and without choices.

Er. I haven't read where

Er. I haven't read where anyone said they hold no blame. They definitely hold blame, sometimes victims hold some of the blame, that however, does not make them not victims.

I think I just figured out why we're all having such a tough time with this--some people are defining victims as those who don't hold any blame at all, while others are looking at victims as people who got tricked, whether or not they are to blame a different topic.

We might just be debating two sides of the same coin.

LOL!

Ok, so my DH was married to

Ok, so my DH was married to BM for 4 months. They both mutually decided they wanted to wait before having kids. BM LIED to DH and told him she was on the pill. 2 months later she was pregnant. She later admitted that she lied about being on the pill because she didn't want DH to leave her. So basically DH's wife LIED to him repeatedly in attempt to get pregnant despite that fact they both mutually decided they didn't want children. How is this not trapping? I don't know, I guess I'm naive to think that spouses should actually be able to trust each other in a marriage.

DH ended up divorcing her when she was 3 months pregnant because he found out what kind of person she really is.

Why can't these "men" wear

Why can't these "men" wear condoms? Even if the woman says she is on BC?

Thank you! So Anon and Echo

Thank you! So Anon and Echo are saying you shouldn't trust your WIFE? GTFOHWTBS! If you can't trust your wife then you shouldn't be married.

I guess they don't trust their husbands either huh?

No, but it certainly means

No, but it certainly means that most of these guys aren't victims. It certainly means that I hope these guys don't try to delude themselves into believing they're intelligent.

terrikitty, spot

terrikitty, spot on.....*applause*

No one is saying they deserve

No one is saying they deserve to be duped.....we are just saying they aren't blameless in their own predicament.

No one is saying that the bm is right or that what she did was acceptable.....but she isn't some evil genius who forced this upon the man who had no hope of escape.

If a man doesn't want a child, the HE needs to ensure he doesn't create one....same as a woman who doesn't want a child needs to take the steps to o avoid making one. If a man chooses to be lazy and leave it to the other partner to handle for him, he is opening himself up for it.

This makes no sense to me.

This makes no sense to me. What kind of marriages do you people have where you can't rely on the word of your spouse? That's the epitome of dysfunction.

Let me clarify something. I'm talking in terms of a MARRIAGE where two people took vows and have a commitment. Not boyfriend, girlfriend type stuff.

Clearly the types of

Clearly the types of marriages all these men were in.

A marriage certificate isn't a magic piece of paper....

Apparently, a lot of people

Apparently, a lot of people on this site are currently in these types of dysfunctional relationships because they are advocating not trusting the word of their spouse. So I guess it means they don't trust their husbands either.

If I didn't trust DH with my LIFE I wouldn't be married to him. I do trust him with my life. I just read a lot of things on this board that I find odd in terms of a marriages. I read a lot of your money/my money, your bills/my bills, your kids/my kids stuff. I just don't see how that can be healthy in a marriage.

*SHRUGS*

I guess whatever works for you. But for me in my marriage, I trust my husband. I rely on what he tells me. And vice versa. I know he trusts me.

"If I didn't trust DH with my

"If I didn't trust DH with my LIFE I wouldn't be married to him."

If I didn't trust DH with my LIFE I wouldn't choose to have sex with him. A lot of these "men" did not trust BM, but they decided to have sex with her.

Sorry I just want to add

Sorry I just want to add something else.

I think a lot of us on here have a problem with the fact that the loves our lives had a child with a skank/b***h/whore etc. So it's easier for us to accept the fact that he was "trapped" versus accepting the reality that they were possibly in love with this "woman" at some point.

For me I think it would be easier for both DH and I to deal with the whole BM/SS6 situation if SS6 would have been conceived in love. DH has repeatedly told me and others in our family that our daughter (DD3) was the only child he planned and prayed for. He told me that SS6 was a mistake. I know that he loves SS6, but I think he resents the fact that tricked into having him. He also resents BM. The only one who loses in this situation is SS6.

"Whether it can be prevented

"Whether it can be prevented or not, if someone's intention is to trap you, then you are TRAPPED into a relationship."

Not really. I'm sure Tom Brady thinks he is a victim of Bridget Moynahan's. He sure as he11 wasn't trapped into a relationship with her. He's not in a relationship with her anymore.

He is not IN a relationship

He is not IN a relationship with her but he does have A relationship with her. And he will for the a very long time because of their child. So they do have a RELATIONSHIP.

And he isn't innocent in

And he isn't innocent in that. Some seem to think it's all the women's fault. He decided to go back for more, knowing the relationship was ending.

Flaming turd!!!!! Flaming

Flaming turd!!!!! Flaming Turd!!!!....flush it quick!....

I don't know...I suppose some

I don't know...I suppose some still live with the belief that birth control is a 100% safeguard. Given that no form of birth control on the market is 100% , I'm not sure I'd want my sons thinking just because a female says she's 'on the pill' that a sexual experience would be 'safe'. Nothing to worry about, no problems? Too easy for a female to 'forget' to take the pill accidently or not. A small chance the pill, if actually taken beats the odds and fails. And then of course there are diseases to take into consideration. Unprotected sex just isn't something to take lightly even in what is thought to be a long term exclusive relationship (How many BF's here found out later their 'true loves' were cheating on them?).

I always told my sons that if they were going to take 'it' out be damn sure they wrapped 'it' up. Do some woman deliberately try and trap males? Absolutely. Living in the day and age though that we all now do, I'm not going to feel too sorry for a guy who claims 'she trapped me'. I think at some point everyone has to be responsible for their own actions. Just my 2 cents.

I think the difference is

I think the difference is when you're in a committed relationship versus just hooking it up with random/casual people.

DH acknowledged that BM's pill wasn't 100% .. but they were married and didn't think it would be the end of the world if she ended up being the 1% exception. At no point did they agree to actively try and get pregnant.

Even protected sex is not

Even protected sex is not 100% failproof. Even masturbation isn't if you have a creep who gets your goods and turkey basters herself with it. Even a vasectomy isn't and a number of men have had the tube actually heal and they become surprise fathers. Condoms can be picked up out of the garbage can etc.

I think we should be teaching kids not to have sex with anyone who they wouldn't want to marry, instead of "safe" sex because there is no such thing.

Unfortunately, sex is seen as more and more of a harmless act, to be enjoyed by both men and women without risk or consequence (that's why we seek to minimize it) but unfortunately that means many people can use that idea to their advantage.

I think this is also, on a slightly off topic, why these women fail at their relationships. If you are willing to lie to get what you want, eventually your partner is not going to want to keep you. around simply because they're tired of being betrayed.

"Even protected sex is not

"Even protected sex is not 100% failproof." No, it is not, and that's why I don't get why these guys blame these women 100%. For the lie? Yes, they should be blamed. But for the resulting pregnancy? I don't think so, because even birth control isn't 100% effective.

It depends for me. If the

It depends for me. If the woman accidentally got pregnant despite precautions, that's a different story than if she tried to increase her chances of getting pregnant. Motive matters.

To say that someone who kills someone else is always the killer's fault, regardless of motive or reason, is... I don't even have a word for that level of insanity. Someone who kills someone accidentally has a very different amount of responsibility for it than someone who premeditates and kills someone on purpose.

The result for both scenarios is death. But is the blame assigned equally?

Like I said, in cases of premeditation, the Bm takes a bigger slice of the blame.

DH got BM pregnant the first

DH got BM pregnant the first time because she stopped her birth control without telling him. She went to great lengths, including flushing her pills daily and continued to fill her prescriptions to conceal the fact she was in fact, NOT on birth control.

She absolutely tricked him into that one. She came clean about her "plan" after she was 6 weeks pregnant .. this was in direct contradiction with EVERY previous convo they'd had about future plans and NOT wanting kids (they were both military and agreed they didn't want to raise kids in that world).

The second one? That one was his own fault. He should've learned his lesson the first time when she swore she was on the pill.

I get that he stuck his d!ck in her and got her pregnant, so he had a contributing part to the first pregnancy. But I don't think it's fair to say he should've been wearing condoms .. she was his WIFE. She told him she was on the pill, went to lengths to "prove" it to him .. he had no reason to not believe her .. the first time.

He did up until they got

He did up until they got married and she got onto the pill. He continued to wear condoms until she'd been on the pill for about 3 months. And kept them handy for when she was sick and/or taking other medications.

^^^^and there you have it!

"I still do not understand

"I still do not understand why if you do not want to have a baby, you would not simply wear a condom."

Me either.

I do have no doubt that if a

I do have no doubt that if a woman came on here and professed she lied to a guy about her fertility, and that she did it to have a kid with him so he'd stay with her (or for money), and she claimed it's not her fault that he trusted her, we'd all tear her apart no matter where we stand on the issue of trapping. I don't think there'd be a single person who'd agree with what she was doing so I have no problem with the fact that we may stand on opposite sides of the definition issue.

I'm glad in some cases it is

I'm glad in some cases it is criminal and they can be prosecuted, like if you lie about your HIV status to a partner and they have unprotected sex with you and contract it.

Not2sure, you made a great

Not2sure, you made a great point....actually wasn't there a poster on here that admitted to something like that?

And not to mention the

And not to mention the posters that get pregnant just to get under BM's skin .. or to piss someone off.

People get pregnant on purposes for a lot of stupid reasons. It's sad that they reproduce and perpetuate the cycle.

I think people change. For

I think people change. For instance, my SIL was a pretty decent person before she had my nephew (he's 7 now). She has almost completely changed since she gave birth. Golden Uterus syndrome for sure.

I think part of my DH's issue with BM is that they were not living in the same state for most of their relationship, before she got pregnant. They were both in college and then she was in grad school, in different states. You don't really get to know someone as well with the day-to-day interaction.

He is not a victim, but she did lie to him about being on birth control. They had been together about 4 years, so he trusted her and did not wear a condom. When she started talking about marriage, and he knew she was not "the one" he was going to break it off with her. They talked, got drunk, she got pregnant. Both are at fault, not just her.
My point is, people can change with time, age, environment, etc.

^^^THIS, all the way!^^^

LMFAO. I tell my DH this all

LMFAO. I tell my DH this all the time. If she had known he wasn't the cool, smart, handsome reserved guy, and instead he showed her the childish, clingy, moody, daddy issue, mommy issue, annoying guy who pushes your buttons on purpose constantly, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have wanted him.

This side of him only became prevalent after we got married, unfortunately. And he only shows it to those he had long term relationships with. No wonder his ex girlfriends constantly broke up with him.

In public and around friends he's still "Mr. Perfect."

In hindsight that probably

In hindsight that probably means I'm an even bigger idiot for marrying him, lo.

Only the kids are victims

Only the kids are victims really...

That's the truth. My DH did

That's the truth.

My DH did not realize BM was lying to him, but at the end of the day, he doesn't regret having his children.

I feel sad for the kids whose parents and stepparents just point fingers at each other for who's fault the "mistake" was.

Beat me to it! (see my

Beat me to it! (see my comment below)

I've been trying to steer

I've been trying to steer away from this because I know it's kind of a "hot" topic here. Personally speaking, I have never even heard of the idea of a woman "trapping" a man into a relationship by getting pregnant. That is, until my mother told me about it. Acually she never used the word "trap". She said that some women think that getting pregnant is a sure fire way of controlling/changing the guy they are with. She's known plenty of women who tried to do it back in her younger days. Most of the time the situation is as follows; the man is in a relationship but still acting and behaving like he is care-free and single. So the woman, after having exhausted all other avenues but refusing to give up on the relationship uses one of the few devices available to her to keep the guy's attention focused on her..."Honey guess what? We're having a baby!".

Unfortunately, all this did was make an unstable relationship even worse. Some of the guys would bail, some guys would stick around and learn the hard way that they aren't cut out to be fathers... Bringing a child into this world is a hefty responsibility and - sadly - some men and women are simply not prepared for it. The question being asked is, who is the victim here? The man or the woman? I say it is the child. When a child is brought into this world for some ulterior motive other than wanting to have a child and raising a family, the child's chance at succeeding in life becomes diminished.

Well that's my two cents anyways.

And a fantastic two cents it

And a fantastic two cents it is...it is no wonder that a woman selfish enough to "trap" a man to save a relationship continues to be selfish when the children are here. From the beginning the whole situation was about the woman anyway and the child suffers.

Very well said!

I agree with this. A child

I agree with this. A child won't make a relationship better.

I just told Adopted Son, whose GF is pregnant but not sure if she wants to keep it, that to make sure their relationship is solid if they do, because a baby will exaggerate all that is wrong with their relationship and if they aren't prepared to overcome them, then they will end up broken up and the child will have a broken family, and that's not fair to the kid.

I'm glad your mother actually sat you down and told you. Neither DH's mom nor dad told him or his brother. Lots of my guy friends are surprised when I tell them it's possible your GF may lie to you to get pregnant when they're talking about what they do as (un)safe sex.

I think if more kids were told this, men and women, they'd be more careful. Not just be careful of STD's, but that there are people out there who will maliciously do it.

He was a victim the first

He was a victim the first time only. The second time, the joke's on him.

You'll never convince me that most of these "men" are helpless victims. Not when they have the choice of wearing condoms, and not when high schools have sex ed classes.

Like echo said, maybe these guys and gals deserve each other.

Uh, no I didn't. You may not

Uh, no I didn't. You may not think this, but these men do have choices in becoming parents. As in, rubber up. As in, don't go back for more if the relationship already has huge problems. As in, if you know a woman has a checkered past, don't sleep with her.

And YOUR tune is getting old, too. Nobody told your dh about anything? Not true if he went to sex ed classes in HS. If he had such huge issues with bm, he shouldn't have gone back a second time. The first time, he was a victim. But you yourself have said he made a bad decision in going back for more.

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