You are here

back against the wall do I emancipate my kids ?

pat's picture

My ex has decided to make my visitation a living hell with my girls. She puts demands that I pick them up at a certain time or not get to visit them ,even with a visitation agreement in the courts was done. She has broken every rule in the agreement and has decided to do what she wants. She wants me to take her back to court so I spend more thousands that I don't have. Me and my fiance can't deal with the drama every week or every other week. Rather there is a issue at pick up, drop off, or with the phone.I feel my back is against the wall and I have no choice. We want peace for our future, but I feel the only way is to get my kids emancipated. This way I might have a shot with them when they are 18. Right now , I can't enjoy what little time I do have them, so, what is the point of them spending time with me ? She will always do what she wants because she does not care about anyones feels and believes she has no boundries. I have already blocked her from the house phone, text, and email. That still does not stop her from calling my cell, or sending stupid snail mail. I don't know what to do next ?

pat's picture

Blended, just because I stop seeing them, does not mean I don't love them. I will always be their dad and they can always call me if they need anything. I have tryed to give them some sort of normal life. My ex just feels like she can do and say what she wants.

pat's picture

Blended, that is incorrect. I just dont want the drama every week with her for the rest of my life. I do support my kids and do love them very much. As far as chicken$hit, I would like you to come deal with this for years! You have no clue.

StepMadre's picture

Yes. "Emancipate" means: 1) "To free from bondage, oppression or restraint" and 2) "To release a child from the control of parents or a guardian"
~Amer. Her. College Dictionary

My take on this situation is that obviously it can't stay the way it is. It's not a happy or healthy situation for anyone right now and I can understand why you are considering stepping back and waiting to re-connect with your kids when the emotional climate is more suitable. I would be frustrated and overwhelmed too. I do think that it would be possible for you to work out a system where you still get to be actively in your kids lives, but avoid the drama and angst you are currently experiencing. If your ex is not following the court order, you can pursue a legal course of action because she is acting in contempt of court. You mentioned not having the funds to fight it out in the courts and I can understand that too! It will be hard, especially since there is already a precedent of the ex getting away with her behavior, but it is possible for you to set and maintain healthy boundaries with her and still be able to see your kids. Do you have access to anyone that could be a mediator while you and your ex discuss the schedule? A specific schedule needs to be set, agreed to and stuck to. Your ex can not just flout the rules and do whatever she wants, despite popular opinion that residential custodial parents are invincible and all-powerful. Have you looked into counseling with your kids? Even once a month would probably be extremely helpful.

I understand the desire to give up, just to have peace and try to reconnect with your kids later, when they are free from their mom, but no matter how worn out you are, you should do your best to stick it out and work towards a situation and arrangement that you feel happy with. If your ex isn't working with you on the schedule, THAT needs to change, not anything else. If PAS is going on and you are experiencing negativity from your kids from that, counseling would again be a good solution.

Instead of emancipating your kids, I would try every less drastic thing I could think of first. If necessary, cut back the amount of time you spend with them so you can focus and work on problems slowly and methodically. If you work towards a low-contact relationship with your ex, insist on neutral drop-offs (if potential violence or harassment is an issue you can meet in a store parking lot and have an officer on standby-it's very commonly done and the police don't mind doing it at all) and focus on preserving and improving your relationship with your kids. It may sound like it will be easier to back off now and try again later, but your chances of success with that are pretty much nil. You will miss out on years of your kids life that will never come again and I think it's important for parents to be involved at all ages. Also, if you emancipate them, even for the best of reasons, they will more than likely not understand your intentions and just take it as rejection and abandonment. Then, when you later try to reconnect and rebuild a relationship they won't want to have anything to do with you and will have had years of being soley influenced by their mom, which I am guessing will not do any favors for you. It's easier to walk away from overwhelming problems, but it's up to the kids/teens to walk away and test boundaries, not the adults. Teens leave and return a few times as a normal part of growing up, but in order to be mentally healthy they need to have a secure place to come back to and parents that they can always fall back on for emotional support.

So, I won't judge or criticize you as it is not my place and is rude, but I will tell you my opinion, which you can take or leave. Only you know what your situation is like and it's easy for people to jump on the bandwagon and attack someone when they haven't experienced what the person is going through or doesn't know the whole story, the history or the details. This is a very personal choice that you will have to make yourself and face the outcome yourself. My advice is to not emancipate your kids, but also don't let things stand as they are. Your situation is intolerable and if it's bad enough that you are considering taking a break from your kids and legally cutting them off, it's a pretty serious situation and there are a lot of things you can do to change and improve things without taking such a drastic legal step.

I would sit down with your kids, without the BM present, and talk to them about your feelings and see what they think and what kinds of ideas and solutions they might have? This seems like a problem between you and their mom and it's coming out by affecting them and your relationship with them. If you walk away, you are letting her win and letting her control your life and your relationship with your kids. For your kids sake, you should try every other option before busting out the big guns. Legal emancipation is not something you can take back or change your mind about. It means that if your child was in a car accident and was in a life or death situation in the hospital, you would not legally be able to see him or her! You would not be considered family emotionally or legally. I would leave the legal aspect out of it entirely. If you need to work things out with your kids, take some time and space, but don't check out entirely!

Unless your kids hate you, are evil to you, rude, disrespectful and just use you for resources and you have to pay CS to your ex that isn't being used for them, I could see emancipation being a positive solution, but that would only be if the relationship with the kids would be severely damaged and irreparable, not for reasons just relating to the BM.

I wish you the best and hope the situation gets resolved satisfactorily for you and your kids! Good luck!

pat's picture

Thanks Madre, I will take that great advice. Good points and I will try my best to work it out.

zuzieq611's picture

"BTW, you ALWAYS have a choice. You just may not like your options"
Amen to that sister

Stick's picture

Pat - I hate to say this, but I think that you are being somewhat selfish here.

I get the whole "I don't want to spend $$ that I don't have" part. BUT what about threatening her that you will take her back to court and put in for legal fees against her since you have to go that route? You don't always have to spend $$ either. You can go to family court with your agreement and ask for it to be enforced. You can call the police on her when she doesn't give you the kids as she is supposed to. Yeah, it's a pain, but you are letting her call the shots.

How much are you willing to fight for your kids?

If you give them up now, you may be surprised that you won't have a shot with them at 18. Because they won't understand that you didn't at least even try to fight to see them.

pat's picture

That is the whole issue. Fight, hell, I have been fighting to see them for 18 months. Police have come, spent all I have on this divorce and thousands just to get a parenting plan together. Any other woman would have left a long time ago. We just want some peace and normal sense of visitation. All I want is to see my kids in peace. Not with her wants/demands attached. It is about the kids , not her. I don't know what to do next. Sad

Stick's picture

Pat - you can do what you want... but the reality is, that decision would make it easier on you - but what about your kids?

I mean, really think about it. You won't have the drama in your life. But what about them? What will BM tell them? Do you care? Do you care that they will feel that you have abandoned them?

I don't know how much drama BM is giving you . You sound exhausted and fed up, and I understand the financial difficulties of putting all of this in place. But the rest of it is somewhat vague (or did I neglect to read something?)

I just want to be sure that you are not just looking at the relief that maybe you and your new SO will feel... but that you are looking at the reality of how the kids will feel - FOR YEARS, and possibly for the rest of their lives.

Kids do see, you know. They see who is really caring for them, and who is using them as pawns. Some may say they will get PAS'd out of your lives anyway - so go ahead.

It's a tough call. I think only you know what true effect this will have on your children. Do you think they would be better off without you in their lives?

pat's picture

Stick , I know it is sad. She will only continue and press more and more because I am happy and she is misrible. She wants me to be unhappy and uses all she can fire towards us. I appricate all your comments .

Stick's picture

Pat - I just hope that you understand that your children are your children for life, and this woman you are with may or may not be around for the rest of your life. I read further and some suggest it may be because of her you are considering this. If yes, I hope you do NOT listen to her. A good woman would not try to encourage her man to not see his kids. (That's my opinion, anyway... and you know what they say about opinions!!)

Anyway - I read especially Old Dart's take about the kids and I think he is spot on. SD has a little girlfriend here who is also 16 but she never met her father. Her mother is kind of whacky (understatement) and the kid has so many issues with relationships and especially male/femle relationships. She is promiscuous and self-centered. She flits from guy to guy and gives it away. She confuses the sexual attention with real affection. She's a mess.

I think Old Dart said it better than I could have. Even though it may be easier now, you could be setting your children up for a lifetime of emotional distress.

PS... your ex is succeeding in making you miserable (even though you say you are happy.) There's another guy on here named Rags who would tell you to take your ex on and fight her and be sure to expose her crap for all that it is - and enjoy it while doing it. As long as your ex knows she is making you and the new SO unhappy, she will continue her games.

mom2five's picture

What is the benefit of that? It won't likely release you from a child support obligation if that's what you're thinking. If it's just a matter of not wanting the drama, you could just as easily stop trying to visit them. I don't think that's a good idea. But I don't see why you would consider emancipation.

pat's picture

It is not about cs. I pay my cs and am not a dead beat dad. If I stop seeing them, it will only make her more angry and put fuel to the fire because she can still have contact with me. She needs to get a life and move on. It has been almost two years of the same garbage. I don't want to talk to her unless the kids are in some trouble. Other than that, she can jump off a bridge.

Persephone's picture

The two years after a divorce is really the roughest.

What I would do is write down her statements, copy or print her letters texts, etc... Highlight all of the parental alienation statements. After a while when you have accumulated enough and can show a pattern... Send her the book Divorce Poison along with copies of your accumulated evidence and tell her if she does not stop this abuse, you will be taking her back to court--on her dime. Even if your state does not acknowledge PAS, it is interfering with custody or visitations.

If nothing else, read the book, if you haven't already.
http://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Poison-Protecting-Parent-Child-Vindictive/...

zuzieq611's picture

OMG that's brilliant. And you are SO right it is always about them wether it's a control issue or a 'payback' issue. Yes I would definetely just back off, don't say a word and she'll be screaming about you never seeing the kids in a couple of weeks. Hey..worth a try.

pat's picture

it was a month that I did not see or talk to them. They are sad sometimes about no seeing me. I was on vacation for almost two weeks. When I got back she took the kids on vacation knowing when I would be back. Then the following week she told me was her week ! So here we are a month away , and she starts all over with the same garbage and ruined my visitation day.

pat's picture

nice to see you steperg. We meet at a local convince store now. I don't want to meet at a police station. The drama ,is always her calling my cell, sending snail mail, and now calling the house phone when she cant reach the kids. I only have them every other Sunday and on thursdays.

pat's picture

Wicked, so sorry to hear that. She will use Pas no matter what. My kids know I am a good day and have explained to them why things are the way they are. They are very young, but, We all need some peace and sanity. To go on for 10,15,20 years of this will just destroy us all. Sad

Shaman29's picture

DH's ExW sounds a lot like yours. She has the prize and now you're dancing to her tune. My DH has heard this a million times "I'm the custodial parent! I make all of the decisions!"

I understand that she's stressing out your fiance and you, but your reactions to her are stressing out your kids. It takes two to fight and if you refuse to fight with her then she loses her power over you. If you want to see your kids, then let her demands roll off your back and go get your kids.

If she continues to break the CO and parenting schedule then by all means, file contempt of court charges against her. You'd be spending the same money to become emancipated anyway.

How you treat your kids now will reflect on how they view you in the future. If you go down this road you are giving your ex all the ammunition she needs.

You seem to have too much stress and drama in your life right now. A pending marriage and now trouble with your ex over the time you spend with your kids. It may be a good idea to take a step back and re-evaluate your priorities. It seems you want to control every aspect of your life and I'm willing to bet part of the problem is you feel like you're losing control.

I highly, highly recommend counseling for your and your fiance. It seems to me you are rushing to the finish line without really knowing what the race is about. I can testify to the fact my DH rushed marriage on me as well and though I love him, I regret not waiting. There were too many issues surrounding us at the time to see that a second marriage would add more stress than alleviate it.

Tx mommy of 3's picture

The kids will alwaysbelieve you deserted them and didn't want them anymore. What giving them up will do is give them MORE time with their mother and MORE time for her to 'brainwash' them. Meaning she'll have years of telling them lies about you and getting them to think you don't love them, are a deadbeat dad...whatever. Then when they do turn 18 or grow up they will still believe what their mother has told them and want nothing to do with you. At least if you fight for them when they get older they may realize how their mom tried to keep them away from you. I don't know what drama there is other than her wanting to talk to her kids while with you, but have you talked with an attorney? Have you tried to file contempt charges against her? Have you taken her to court about enforcing visitation? To me it sounds like your girlfriend is putting these ideas into your head. And if you think she's trying to help you then you better watch out because no good woman would tell her other half to sin off his rights to his own children this late in the game.

pat's picture

My girlfriend just wants peace just like I want. She has dealt with this garbage for almost two years. I know she can't deal with it forever. Hell, I would not deal with this type of treatment from a ex. So, what do I do? Continue to let her treat us this way ?

pat's picture

Dart I read it. Yes it is really good advise. I do love my kids, I am just asking for some peace for me and my kids when we are together.

stormabruin's picture

Pat, wasn't it your STB wife's kids who were making your lives hell last week over your upcoming wedding? I'm not sure how you can justify taking their relationship with their mother into your own hands because you feel they owe her that support in their relationships, but a week later your ready to terminate your relationships with your own children, who truly are only children...because it's too hard??? Blame it on the ex all you want to, but if you give up, it's all on you. Kids deserve to have a mother & a father. Kids need the guidance of a mother & a father. They deserve to have a relationship with their mother & their father. You owe it to your children to fight to keep your relationships with them. At least if you fight & lose, you can still say you did everything in your power. If you give up without making every possible effort, it all falls on you. How do you justify the fight you're willing to put up to save the relationships between your GF & her children but at the same time you feel it's just not worth it for your own???

mamad's picture

I think that if you think the children aren't worth the drama, then they're better of without you then... Your their father..and if you really cared you will fight till the end of the earth for your kids. You're letting yourself be lead by your nose by you ex AND your fiance...history is repeating itself. Your poor kids.. If you love them you'll do all you can to be with them, and not alow your fiance to dictate how much time you spend with them (from 6 to 2) and your ex either. They might grow to resent you for it...which may grow to hate.. meanwhile your ex will have all their love, and tell them what a useless father you are, and your fiance would'nt care ...cause she has kids of her own who love her, and where will you be?

stormabruin's picture

"Plus, they are in their 40s' and want to have more kids - just as soon as he gets rid of his kids ... this is not true love - this is a time bomb ticking right now ... tick ... tick ... tick ..."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Agreed. Life with children is difficult whether they're your own or someone else's. This has been proven in this case. The entire situation is whirling out of control already. EVERY party involved is confused & overwhelmed & hurt & angry. None of the children are wanted by anyone. Why in the world would anyone entertain the idea of rushing into marriage for the sake of pulling more children into an already screwed up mix??? Time is ticking is not a good reason to rush into marriage. Racing to pop more babies out simply for the sake of having babies, especially bringing them into a brewing situation such as this, is completely irresponsible & entirely unfair to the children...those already existing who are being pushed aside, & those who are to be the prize in the race against the biological clock.

mamad's picture

haha, yes DH it is me! Blum 3 SURPRISE!

i personaly think Pat needs to solve his issues with his wife, her jealousy towards his children and her insecurities with herself, if he is still thinking of a divorce..he shoudld.. true children need both their parents...but at times both parents home and unhappy is worse than a divorce. he could then solve his issues with his ex, without a wife nagging him and spend time with his son...hopefully find another partner who is more understanding... make sure to test her skills with your son first...not to jump in to another pshycho relationship. I never went through the naggin wife/pshycho step-mum faze...as i already had a son from a previous relationship myself and could relate.. and so did he. This is mainly a problem with his marriage i think...the children are just excuses to pick on each other