Spouse is the Problem
Together we have four children. 3 still live with us half time, and one child is grown and living on his own. The three kids are all still teens, (15-17). The kids don't really act out toward one another or their step parents beyond what normal teens will do. They are either loving, polite or quiet when in our home. My child loves my husband. His kids like/accept me, but do not embrace me to the level that my child embraces my husband. I wish it were warmer, but am glad it is at least always cordial and sometimes actually friendly.
The problem is the husband and the ever present guilt. When his children are here he just becomes this different person. The whole attitude is literally "can't we just do what they want?" I have no problem doing what they want some of the time, when appropriate, but all of the time feels a bit much. Then there are the whacky things said out of the blue, like yesterday, and this is what I think spurred this: he remarks that he wants to go away, all six of us for a long weekend on the 4th of July. Never mind he is always rightfully worried about money, and we made no saving plans for such an activity. He remarks "I need to make memories" and I said we don't need to spend money we don't have do this. He then speaks of happy memories of trips with his father. When I pointed out those trips happened as an adult after his father had retired and had extra money to afford things like this due to his kids being independent, and that he never took spur of the moment, unplanned, trips like he was proposing we take as a kid because money was tight and he still has happy memories he backed down. It's like he lives in emotion and ignores reality. Of course, when he is around my child he is kind but sees no reason to go out of his way or our way to please her, but with his own kids it's "can't we just do what they want." Oddly enough his kids don't really have those expectations, it comes from him. They may grumble a bit if they don't like something, but they are not bratty beyond eye rolls and loud sighs. There is always an effort on my part to keep each of the three kids in mind, but in perspective. He feels this need to run himself ragged, spend money he does not have, and his kids really are not asking for such things, so he is always exhausted both financially and physically when they are here .
There is some version of the above constantly. Does this ever end? It's as through reality leaves his brain. The funny thing is his one child particularly makes mention of how he feels his dad is a good father, and it is usually mundane things like remembering what songs he likes. It's never the crazy, expensive gestures. So it boggles the mind this continual preoccupation on my husband's part on "never making them unhappy." That goal was once stated to me, "I never want to be responsible for making my children unhappy in any way." Not realistic if you are a good parent in my opinion.
What worries me most is college as he has saved little if any for retirement, yet I know he is going to feel he must pay for expensive universities for his children. We have already had the talks about this, and I am just dreading the ensuing guilt he will have over this. He is 60 now, so it is pretty concerning. Neither he nor his ex ever were big earners, but they often would go into debt to give their kids things. Both received inheritances of somewhat substantial amounts that were all spent for the kids, and nothing was saved. So he and the ex have this false reality, and he has his guilt. It is in part what broke up their marriage, money. When the inheritance money ran out the ex expected him to just "find" money. She wrote him a letter which he has yet to tell me about asking him to pay 20,000 for some sports program that neither of them can afford. I know about the letter because the kids were talking about it almost in front of me. I wonder if he will ever mention the letter to me? Thankfully I have kept my finances separate, and intend to do so, but ultimately his emotions and irresponsibility impact everyone.
Sorry for being lengthy but any ideas for dealing with this perpetual guilt and the "let's just keep them happy" checked out from reality behavior. It has been four years now, does it ever end?
You're describing a very mild
You're describing a very mild case of "Disneyland Dad" who thinks they must entertain the kids every minute of a visitation. While it true some of my early memories of my Dad was taking us on a trip I also remember him taking me along to work, the auto parts store, the car mechanic, etc. Fortunately your husband has you to keep his feet planted.
Memories don't have to be purchased. I took my boys on a cross country motor trip of eight weeks, California to Disney World in Florida, Washington D.C. and family reunion near Detroit then back. The older one barely remembers it and the youngest one even less so. Fortunately I had as much fun as anyone.
I love the name "Disneyland
I love the name "Disneyland Dad." Do they ever cease this behavior? Does it ever get better?
I agree with you totally memories do not have to cost much if any money to be created. His one child is living proof as he will often comment about how he appreciates his father doing this or that, so it is not that the kids are complaining, well one does at times, but in general they are happy.
It worries me that I keep having to talk him down from these thoughts. It really concerns me that he has not broached this 20,000 expenditure. Apparently, their mother wrote a letter a couple of weeks back which has hidden from me? That bothers me. I don't know if I should confront or not.
Thank you, as always, for your wisdom. You are always on point!
My DH's parents were very
My DH's parents were very modest blue collar people who raised 4 kids on a shoe string. They did not pay for college for their kids. My DH worked his way through to get his degree. Incidentally, at 17 he worked at the same plant as his dad.
My mother in law is a widow now, I never had the chance to meet my father in law. She lives quite nicely in a full size home and enjoys picking up the tab once in awhile for family dinners at a restaurant and similar gifts for loved ones while keeping her home up beautifully and entertaining herself with activities and trips.
I can tell you I have heard my brothers and sister in law as well as my DH often express how impressed they are with their Dad that he planned so well for his retirement that not one of them ever has any worry about their mom and do not have to support her financially in any way.
Never once have I heard my DH complain about working his way through college (he is much better off than his dad was, but he even plans to have his daughter work her way through, too). But I have OFTEN heard him talk about fond memories of working with his dad at the plant.
Don't know how you can communicate any of this to your husband, but these are the facts. Kids raised well love their parents for who they are. And the best possible gift or "memory" a parent can give his kids is peace of mind when they are the ones who are earning and mom/dad are not begging for crumbs or living in a hovel.
Best of luck.
That is a beautiful story. I
That is a beautiful story. I feel exactly the same way. I worked my way through college, worked full time and went to school full time. It was an exciting time in my life. I felt like a real grown up and was very proud of my accomplishments. Today, I am even more relieved that my parents are financially sound and sorted. I would of course, help them if ever needed, but I am forever grateful that they never wanted to be a burden to me or my sibling. So we lived within our means and kids paid for school. I see so many of my friends with the horribly broke, almost destitute parents, and the worry it imposes when they are trying already to care for themselves and their own kids. I am forever grateful for their wisdom and prudence among other things.
I try to remind my husband of this all the time, but he only sees, not unlike a child, "I want to do it hereford I should be able to do it." It is a continual battle. I don't know how to make him see. I guess he does not want to see... He made up his mind that a good parent does certain things, and he chooses to ignore the fact that he chose a career path that while meaningful does not offer salaries commiserate with two kids in private schools and paid for private/ivy college tuition.
Your husband's story is one I wish I could impress upon him. It is rather sad that my spouse seems to equate love with money rather than work and instilling values and backbone!
Thank you for sharing your story it brought a smile! I needed that smile!
I know exactly how you feel.
I know exactly how you feel. My husband and his ex are very poor money managers and have nothing saved and live hand to mouth. I provide almost 100% of my husband's support while he covers his child support and gas and extras. It bothers me immensely that the two of them continually make decisions to have their kids do activities that they cannot afford -- hockey, etc... No one ever tells the kids no.
And I feel resentful because I feel like inadvertently the two of them are making decisions involving my finances too, since I'm picking up the tab for my husband so he can give his ex her child support and pay for things like hockey, health club membership, etc. for his children. I have ample money, but my point it is my money and I intend to pass along money to my own children, not supplement his ex wife and kids.
How do you separate your concept of parenting from that of your spouse and his ex's? I feel like I don't want to bear the burden of the aftermath of their failed parenting. I know everyone has a different style of parenting, but when they don't have resources, shouldn't they be at least trying to help their kids become independent adults? I am not picking up the tab for them. It is almost to the point where living separately might be a better solution because then I am responsible financially for myself and his household finances are completely separate.
What ever happened to acting like a parent instead of an indulgent fool? It doesn't help the kids at all. His oldest barely graduated from high school, has no plans for college and is being rewarded with a year of playing hockey. I doubt my husband and his ex will even require him to work. And they cannot afford this at all. What's wrong with telling your kids you cannot afford it?
I don't understand them and it would be so nice not to have to be part of the parenting of my husband and his ex. I guess one solution is to end the marriage and let them see how much hockey they can afford to provide their kids or to just shut up and keep my distance.
Oh my gosh yes! It's amazing
Oh my gosh yes! It's amazing they drove themselves to the breaking point paying for this nonsense, which led to the fights which in part led to the divorce. Then once the divorcing was on it was who can buy the affection first. It does teach nothing. In my case, the one kid is the sole beneficiary of this excess while the other one receives nothing. When they are all together talking it is the kid who is not given all the special treats that is kind and genuinely complimenting his father for being a kind and protective parent, while the one who gets all the spoiling rolls his eyes and says "yeah right, loser."
I will not bankroll this stuff directly. We keep our finances totally separate. We each contribute our share of the living expenses and a certain shared fund for a dinner or movie and such, but the rest each keeps. Where I am going to be screwed is that I have been saving for retirement whereas he does not, so when we are older guess who will end up carrying the expenses, and that makes me angry.
I have kids too, but I tell them how much there is to spend and I stick to that. I also have an ex who tries to buy love, and I told my kids at the outset that it was great that he can afford these things but I am not so able. My kids understood, and there has never been a problem. They have their fun and treats with me too but only what it within a reasonable percentage of my income.
My husband and his ex like your spouse and his ex seem to live in fantasy land where money is no object, and you are utterly correct it teaches the kids nothing about values, reality and responsible behavior.
Definitely keep your distance and keep your funds to yourself. There is no reason why you should be paying for their irresponsibility. You should not be expected to be paying for all the living expenses so he can use all of his money to give them treats he otherwise would not be able to afford. I doubt we will change them as they are all too afraid to be disliked. My husband actually says "I never want to do anything to cause my children to be unhappy." Not terribly responsible as much of what lies at the cornerstone of responsibility does not make us "happy." I guess they do not realize that the rest of the world really is not going to care about their offspring and they are not instilling any giving in the offspring that will enable them to go to these kids for help when they need it because ether saved nothing for old age. I never want to burden my kids in old age, so I do not permit myself to become financially overburdened by anything that will prevent that.
What is it with these uber expensive sports things for these kids who really are not pro athlete level status anyway?
Exactly. And why should you
Exactly. And why should you and I suffer because of our spouse's and ex's bad financial planning? And watch them indulge their kids on top of it at our expense. I know what you mean about providing all the retirement funds too. His two boys play hockey, of all sports, which is ridiculously expensive and the games are all over the place so there is a lot of gas expenses too, not to mention the time.
I am definitely keeping my distance. Last year I put my house on the market and asked if his boys could stay with their mother, who receives child support. I didn't want to clean up after them and try to show the house AND pay for them on top of it. This has been a huge source of discord. But why should I pay to have his kids live with us while the ex gets child support and my spouse contributes nothing to the house? And his kids do mothing to help around the house?
We are in counseling and she has said he should have his kids here but on a limited schedule. I agreed to this, but have insisted that the ice be broken with her present as a trained third party. Apparently his kids are refusing to go. I feel as if my spouse supports them and doesn't acknowledge my point of view with them at all. I think he feels like they should be entitled to do whatever they want in the house and who cares about what I think.
I seriously think this is going to end the relationship sooner rather than later. I am sure you can relate to the sense of resentment you get that you will be making up the difference for the poor financial decisions, which you have NO say in, of your spouse and his ex.
Not to mention, they LET the oldest kid continue to play hockey (FOUR practices during the week plus games) while the kid was flunking three classes junior year. Really? Who is going to support this brat when he can't find a job?
Am I being unreasonable? My spouse just tells me I am jealous of his kids. Really? Why can't he see that it is not my responsibility to provide for them. If they want nothing to do with me, then they have nothing to do with my resources. Simple as that. If they want to treat me with respect and acknowledge that I am married to their father and not ignore me then maybe I wouldn't be so resentful. It's a two-way street.
Is this an impossible situation if my spouse refuses to acknowledge that I have a point and just feels like the big bad witch is depriving his kids of my resources? I cannot live the rest of my life with a spouse who puts his kids over me and expects me to pay for everything while their WANTS not NEEDS eclipse everything.
I was in a very similar boat
I was in a very similar boat before my ( much more entitled skids) PAS'd out. They wanted to dictate the terms of our activities, and pretty much only stooped to particpate after a lot of begging on DH's behalf. This sick dynamic has thankfully been laid to rest once BM had her way and stopped them responding to him altogether. So hundreds of thousands of dollars thrown on them for years bought him exactly nothing. Nada. Zilch. Radio silence previously punctuated with brief flashes of hate.
So in this spirit, value the good vibe you have with your skids (and it does not have to be great, good is good enough) and have fun without spending the money. The money has already been spent, nothing is left for retirement. So how about playing board games? I have two teenagers, 15 and 17, the skids are older, but when they used to come we would all play and have a great time. These days we play with my boys and their friends and it's a hoot! We love German games, Settlers of Catan, Ticket to Ride, Ra, Carcassone. Also Clue, Jungle Speed - each costs $30-40 or less, and brings with it hours of FUN! In Settlers you have to bargain, in Ticket you build your own railroad empire, in Jungle you need to react with lightning speed - they are all challenging and enormously entertaining. Priceless.