Another fight with DH about ss30
Last night we got a surprise drop-in visit from ss30. He of course just walks right in w/out knocking and starts poking around the house for DH. I'm totally fine that he walked by me w/out acknowledging me and went straight to DH. DH is doing some work downstairs so they visit there for about an hour. I am upstairs in the kitchen making dinner then ss30 and DH start talking there. ss30 states that DH makes sooo much money but that all of his income is spent on "kids," then ss points at me. I really didn't want to engage ss in conversation but had to speak up and said, "excuse me, I work full-time and pay for my own children's expenses." He folded his arms, turned his back and continued his tirade that DH's money was drained by "kids," mine of course.
Dh sensing the tension walked ss to his car. After DH came back in I told him that I did not appreciate what ss30 had said, and that I also didn't like that DH just stood there and let ss attack me. DH said, "I'm sure he didn't mean it disrespectfully." I told DH that if ss30 talks about me, my kids, our relationship, or either of our finances then he's being disrespectful since e's never had one nice thing to say about any of those topics, and that I would appreciate for DH to stop the conversation is ss starts talking about these things. DH started yelling at me that he couldn't do anything about ss's behavior because he was grown and he wasn't able to parent anymore. I told him that if my teen or adult kids were the least bit respectful to DH that it would be stopped in it's tracks. DH yelled that I had made my point and that he would talk to ss30 but it wouldn't do any good since he had talked to him before.
I told DH that it was ridiculous that our main marital issue and fights were about his grown 30 yr old son. Also that he'd better take charge of the situation or I'd set ss straight on where all of DH's $$$ is really going (alimony to ss's hoor mother). "Do you really want me to have to fight with your son while you watch?" Dh agreed and said that he dreaded ss30 coming over because he knows this will happen every time. Then he went to the other extreme and said, "I'll just tell him not to come over." Oh sure, like that wouldn't cause other issues and totally be all my fault. Then I asked DH what he and ss used to talk about before we were married, and that they could continue to talk about everything else, but anything pertaining to our relationship, finances or my family was off limits. Surprisingly DH agreed. So we'll see what happens, but if ss does this again he'll hear a lot of facts from me and I won't hold back. I've put up w/more sh*t from this grown man that I would put up w/from anyone else since he's DH's son and I told DH this, but I'm officially done. If DH won't protect me and deal w/his grown ass loudmouth son then I will.
How is it disparaging to tell
How is it disparaging to tell adult ss that his mother is receiving a hefty chunk of DH's paycheck every month in alimony? ss30 lives with his mother so DH is paying both of their rent.
I would never call BM names
I would never call BM names to her children. They know her history and that is part of why they are both grown men who still act like children. I know that DH and I don't owe him any explanations for anything and that's why I said my small piece and stopped.
I do understand your point
I do understand your point that it is "NOT 1890" however men are expected to have certain roles (that's why they are called men and not women)and they should be protectors, if not they should just cut off their manhood and get a vagina.
No woman needs a man to speak for her, however you would expect your spouse of any gender to stand up for you and back you up.
Actually, I don't think
Actually, I don't think gender should come into play at all. A SPOUSE should support the other SPOUSE. I am a woman, and if my kids said something like that to my husband, I would tell them -rightfully so - that they were out of line.
Yes, as a spouse I did not
Yes, as a spouse I did not receive protection from my husband, but it's been this way for years now when it comes to ss30. Usually he's more subtle in his rudeness/contempt but this time it was extremely blatant, a new milestone for ss. DH lost massive respect by just quietly standing there while I defended myself against ss.
It is a difference of
It is a difference of opinion, and no one's opinion is right or wrong, just different. My opinion is that her DH should have however she has to come to realize just because he won’t, she should stand up for herself.
I am sure others can empathize with this posters frustration and hurt and understand that she came on here to vent and not be attacked.
I would not expect any father to eat his young (unless he is a Grizzly Bear), but even animals correct their young.
I understand stepfamilies due that different dynamics, but it does not excuse poor behavior.
It is sad that these
It is sad that these husband's cannot stick up for their wives, but they have no problem sticking up and being defensive about their rude adult kids.
I am in the same boat.
My husband does not defend me when skid 21 talks poorly or makes snide remarks about me. I have learned I am the only one that can stand up for myself. In the meantime it causes resentment and I will never stick up for DH.
This has been our main issue
This has been our main issue for almost 4 years now. Disengaging has helped but when ss30 gets right in my face and starts talking smack I was really unprepared. It was hurtful that DH just stood there and allowed it. We've been talking about the situation and may go to counseling if we don't come to a resolution soon.
Excellent response! I love
Excellent response! I love it.
Thank you, agree with the
Thank you, agree with the others that that is the perfect response. I'll have to ingrain this on my brain so that I'm prepared if/when there is a next time.
The fact that SS lives with
The fact that SS lives with BM also helps drive the whole "where is dad's money going" thing home I think. Grow up and get your own place a$$ hole!! You still live at home with your mommy on your daddies dime..should you really be talking right now?!?
Seriously! He's living with
Seriously! He's living with mommy PLUS he moved his unemployed pothead gf in too. Oh the enabling...
I think you absolutely
I think you absolutely unconditionally should ban SS30 from your home. Why would you allow any ahole in your home? What issues would it cause?
I speak from experience as I've pretty much banned my SS30 from my home. I allowed him to stop by with the baby and babymama for about 15 minutes last month. But I said no to his coming for Christmas or any other family gatherings. I don't care what SS or BM or BabyMama or anyone else thinks about it. If there are issues it is their problem not mine.
I washed my hands of SS because of how he treats other people. I have NO filter left when it comes to him so I understand what you mean about it being best just not to be around him. If I had to spend any time around SS I would go off on him. And SS has a long history of violence so he would probably hit me. And then his life would be OVER.
"I think you absolutely
"I think you absolutely unconditionally should ban SS30 from your home."
It may just come to that. I'm realizing that I've been way too "nice" about this entire situation. I have set many boundaries in regards to ss, but obviously not enough.
I don't think it's wrong for
I don't think it's wrong for you to expect your husband to say something to his son.
I also don't think it's wrong for you to say something.
The problem is that if it comes from you, SS is going to ignore it and when DH is silent, SS will take it as DH is agreeing with him, not you.
Like most problems in stepfamilies, it has to come from the parent, not the step.
I totally agree with you
I totally agree with you Notsobad.
"when DH is silent, SS will
"when DH is silent, SS will take it as DH is agreeing with him, not you."
^^And this is exactly what happened the other night in the kitchen. DH was silent while ss30 tiraded on. SS thinks it's ok to verbally abuse me while DH silently agrees. This incident has me at an impasse, something has to change because ss is getting more embolden and I'm fed up.
What do you think DH would
What do you think DH would say if you asked him if he agrees with SS?
If he says no of course I don't agree with him, then you can explain that when he's silent it appears to both you and SS that he is agreeing with SS.
If he says yes, I actually do agree with SS, well then you have a whole different problem.
My guess is that he doesn't want to contradict or argue SS. If this ever happens again I would put DH right in the middle and straight up ask him. "So DH you're pretty quiet, Do you think that me and my kids are taking all your money?"
You'll have a big fight when SS leaves and DH will be angry that you put him in that position but you should only have to do it once.
Let DH know that if he won't stand up to his son, you'll force his hand.
He is a p*ssy when it comes
He is a p*ssy when it comes to ss30. My respect for DH is very low right now and I think we'll need to have some professional help to fix it, if DH is willing. If not, this just may be the beginning of the end.
OK, I've been thru this. My
OK, I've been thru this. My DH even went so far as to betray me to SD56. DH never defended me. Long story short; SD threw DH under the bus in a nasty email to me; uh-oh in writing!
Yep! The whole world came apart for DH and SD. We've been married 36 years, so I was not going to just walk away and give up everything we had earned. I just retired 6 years ago and had a career, with retirement. Everything we own was on the line for DH. OOPS, now what was he to do?
I woke up to a reality that "I" was the only out I had. I went into action immediately. I set boundaries and let everyone in the family know what they were, I didn't care what any of them thought of me, and the boundaries would be followed, or the Court orders I had set into action, would be enforced forever. You have rights in your own home; your SS has no right to just walk into your home and disrespect you. My SD56 used to just walk in, without knocking; I now lock the door, she has to knock.
This time last year we were putting it back together and are doing well now. The only reason is because I took it upon myself to set everyone straight. Nobody was going to wake up, so I woke everyone up and it was and still is sometimes ugly; but with all of this said, I am NOT backing off. I will NEVER be mistreated again by my SD56. I have "promised" SD and DH (not threaten, but promised), that Law Enforcement will visit again and I will not lift the orders a second time. I mean it! They know it!
You have to take care of "you". This is very difficult; it's like saying "no" the first time, it gets easier with each stand up. I understand your frustration, but you have to defend yourself, kind of like a mother bear backed into a corner.
Good Luck
(((hugs)))
Here is a solution. LOCK THE
Here is a solution. LOCK THE FRONT DOOR!
Remove the possibility of him just walking in. Lock the doors for securities sake at least. You never know who is creeping around.
Then when SS wanders over and is stopped at the front door and has to knock THEN you get DH to open the door and greet his son.
That should take the wind out of his sails a bit.
...
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You should not depend on DH
You should not depend on DH to set his son straight but you deserve to be respected as DH's wife - both by DH and SS. This does not mean he has to get all over SS's butt, but it also doesn't mean he has to argue with you when it is more than obvious SS is being an a$$.
I gave my DH the choice of informing SD that she is to respect me as his wife - especially in my own home, and she would not be crossing the doorstep until he did. I added it was non-negotiable. I don't really care how he delivered this message to SD. If he blamed it on me what difference does it make? He also had the choice of leaving or working on the marriage. I would not back down. He has the right to see her just about whenever he wishes. It is still up to him whether SD enters our home or not. If she walked through the door and argued with me I would call the police immediately and have her removed. If DH didn't like it he could join her.
I agree you should be able to defend yourself if necessary but when DH refused to morally support me as as his wife I lost a great deal of respect for him. We have worked on the marriage, and in many respects it is better than it was when SD used to visit, but the marriage is not about 'us' as a united team. Now we are two independent entities whose priority is ourselves and we share a life together. It is a lot easier to compromise than sacrifice your human rights and dignity.
Thank you sandye21; I have
Thank you sandye21; I have questioned my decision, to act, different times. I have stood my ground on the boundaries I set for myself and DH, this past year. It is very difficult, because our marriage, such as yours, has changed drastically, because I took a stand. It literally broke my heart and I still hurt, when I type this. I never wanted anything about DH's and my relationship to change (I always thought it was great); I was forced to make the changes, because DH would not protect our privacy from SD56; he never has, come to find out.
On the positive side; it has made our relationship stronger and in ways better. I lived a lie for 30+ years, trying to be the perfect wife, perfect SM, perfect housekeeper, perfect cook, on and on. I didn't dare say or do anything to upset DH and his perfect kids. When I stopped living this lie and came out in full force, it all stopped, as well as very ugly.
I had two priority boundaries I set for myself and DH.
#1 I stop the hate, nagging, and trying to make DH be the person I wanted him to be. I ignore his actions and game playing. I am above it all. I set this boundary for myself, because I couldn't move forward until I got my own issues realized. Difficult boundary, because I felt I was giving SD56 the win, not so, I am the winner.
#2 I stay away from SD56 and her immediate family; SD56 and her immediate family stay away from me. This meaning, SD and family members can come to "our" home to see DH when I am not here. I visit my family in a neighboring State often; so that is workable. SD and family do not come here, when I'm home, DH can go up the street and visit them anytime he wishes; with that said, DH can do anything with his kids, as long as he doesn't expect me to join, unless it's an emergency situation. Nobody makes decisions for me any longer. Part of this #2 is DH was to inform SD and family that they were never to contact me; that I would respect that wish on my end also. DH did inform them and it is better; SD still pushes it, but I step forward and take care of it myself. They were also informed, if I had to push it, Law Enforcement will get involved, as before, and that is a promise.
I was glad to read your post, because I do feel guilty at times for setting such harsh boundaries. My DH and SD56 obviously don't take hints; they actually had to have the picture drawn. I hinted for the past 7 years (disengagement) and it never sunk in.
Thank you for making me feel like I took positive steps. You made my day a bit easier and I hope you can stay strong also.
I held my truths for so long
I held my truths for so long to keep the peace and keep dh, now ex, happy. Do not continue to hold back. Dh will not have your back, or he would have already. That simple, he would have spoken up for you and he hasn't.
I held my tongue, smiling for so long and guess what they got used to it. Yippee for them, and for me, numerous medical ailments, probably stress induced. The end is DH divorced me because I did not remain accommodating and silent regarding his DS. What a horrible feeling to know that I am second to a grown man in my marriage.
It is better to know now where the chips are going to fall, take the risk and speak your truth. Will Dh love you enough to put your first?
" DH is doing some work
" DH is doing some work downstairs so they visit there for about an hour. I am upstairs in the kitchen making dinner then ss30 and DH start talking there. ss30 states that DH makes sooo much money but that all of his income is spent on "kids," then ss points at me. I really didn't want to engage ss in conversation but had to speak up and said, "excuse me, I work full-time and pay for my own children's expenses." He folded his arms, turned his back and continued his tirade that DH's money was drained by "kids," mine of course."
Too bad there wasn't a little talking mouse down in the corner of that basement. I'd love to now what DH was saying to his son that son came up yakking about money and kids pointing at YOU. I sincerely hope DH didn't use you/your kids as a fake excuse for not handing his lazy a** son and moocher GF cash. Or turning the old phone back on or whatever new reason for handouts SS came over looking for.
If there is a next time, go right ahead and don't hold back. Put him right out the door after. You certainly do not have to tolerate his accusations and finger pointing. I realize you didn't want a big scene, but sometimes reality checks are in order. This man has one coming.
That your DH is fighting with
That your DH is fighting with you over his dependent entitlement mandating idiot 30yo is pathetic and tells me more about your DH than I need to know. It should tell you enough also. Really? You tolerate this guy why?
Don't get me wrong. I understand the whole for better or for worse vow element. However, worse IMHO does not include a volutary continued engagement with toxic people even if those people are one's own children.0 a
I think it is time to give SS-30 a complete accounting of where daddy's money goes with his extreme clarity on how much of it goes to support SS-30 and his leeching BM. Take the information out of DH's purvue and make it your personal direct goal to keep SS-30 fully in touch with the facts of his existence and continued leech status on daddy's dime.
"your ss comment is among
"your ss comment is among other ill mannered statements he has made throughout the years, correct?"
Oh yes, this is not the first nasty comment or blow up that ss has had in our home. It's been almost 4 years that DH and I have been together and the first 2 1/2 I "tolerated" more than I should have from the man baby. After that I set strong boundaries and disengaged, this worked pretty well for the last year. Lately ss seeks me out to make sure I hear his rude comments and it goes in one ear and out the other for DH.
Honest question - not trying
Honest question - not trying to be snarky. But when people say "kick him out of your house" isn't your DH going to say "it's my house too and I want him here"?
My DH and I keep our finances separate and split the mortgage 50/50, so it's not "my house" or "his house". How do you cope when you each have an equal stake but one of you wants the SKID there and one of you doesn't?
I'd tell my own bio-kids to
I'd tell my own bio-kids to take their disrespectful and/or argumentative buns right out the door. I might not say 'never come back' or 'you are forever banned', but I do not nor will not entertain bullish*t in my home. Not from stepkid. Not from bios. Not from siblings bickering with each other.
I don't think OP has a problem with her SS stopping by to visit with his father. But if SS can't STFU and behave, it's time for him to take his attitude and mouth right back out the door. It shouldn't matter how the mortgage is being paid (my is paid off btw) or what name/names are on the deed. If a adult child is being a troublemaker he/she needs to be told to leave.
blending2012: I stated in my
blending2012: I stated in my post, my priority boundaries, this was one of them. SD56 stays away from me and only visits when I'm not home; DH can go up the street to her home anytime; it's a two way street between her house and ours. I am out of State to visit my family often, therefore it is workable. It can be worked out. With that said, if SD56 shows up, I do not leave our home, but I don't give her the time of day; I continue to stay busy and stay away from her.
I will not take any verbal abuse from SD or DH; they know it. SD is better off not speaking to me and she knows it. I stand up for myself and that is the bottom line.
Completely disengaging has
Completely disengaging has worked well for me, but from your posts I'm seeing that the next step is to stand up for myself. I really didn't want to have to go there with ss30 since it feels like reengaging with him. *sigh*
Just one, stern retort from
Just one, stern retort from Daddy will straighten SS right out. He's obviously still a child and needs to be smacked down.
By saying nothing DH only
By saying nothing DH only confirms SS's assumptions and is therefore throwing me under the bus. Last night DH told me that SS has asked him for money on several occasions this year and DH told him, "I just don't have it." Who knows what else is being said in their conversations but obviously I'm perceived to be at fault for the failed money grab and DH isn't saying otherwise.
We're kinda hoping that if DH tells him how much $$$ is going to BM each month that he'll harass her instead of him. But as others stated, none of it is any of his business and we don't want to encourage him to think it is. Not sure what to do.
Since your DH is willing to
Since your DH is willing to let you be his human shield, you owe him no loyalty, either.
Drop a few truth bombs on your SS, and then let him, BM, and your H hash it out. Tell him how much alimony BM gets, that you've been carrying DH financially, etc. Whichever facts will turn them on each other. You're going to be blamed no matter what, so let those three reap what they've sown. Then, tell him that if he can't behave civilly, he's no longer welcome in your house.
My H hid behind me for years. I did all the emotional heavy lifting with his kids and his family because I was embarrassed by his lazy parenting and poor social skills. I made him look good, organizing everything. All the while, resentment grew amongst his sisters and daughters because all they saw was me meeddling. Their behavior went from passive aggression to relational aggression to outright rudeness towards me, and yet my H did nothing. Finally, I realized if I wanted change, I had to change. I told H I wasn't covering for him. I have nothing to do with his family, and they are enjoying a fully authentic relationship with their brother/father: He never calls, never sees them, never remembers birthdays or holidays. He knows better than to bring that dysfunction around me, because I will speak the truth, and heads will roll.
"You're going to be blamed no
"You're going to be blamed no matter what, so let those three reap what they've sown."
^This is true. It is their story and their drama, not mine. I'm tired of being dragged into it and being the scapegoat for their "secrets."
Love the idea of letting the ss's/gskids/MIL..etc "enjoy a fully authentic relationship with their brother/father." Well done!
I absolutely agree. If only I
I absolutely agree. If only I could make DH say this; but as we SM's know, these adult skids have a RIGHT to their fathers money. SM is stealing all the money so they'd better get their share before it's all gone. *sarcasm of course* but this is what it's felt like for several years.
I can relate to your wanting
I can relate to your wanting to tell your SS how much BM is getting from DH but it probably wouldn't mean anything to SS.
My DH's ex has a good chuck of his retirement going to her when he retires as per divorce settlement because it couldn't be touched before then so she will be getting it soon or maybe she already has it. It was so tempting for me to tell SS who was living with us up until last year and for whom we are paying his student loan with no help from him or her.
It pisses me off that she has not helped one bit with her own son but it wouldn't change anything to tell him she's getting a nice chunk of change and ask her for anything he needs, not DH. SS is not living with us anymore so it is not as annoying as it would be if we were still supporting him
Hopefully DH doesn't retire
Hopefully DH doesn't retire anytime soon
Yeah, I don't know if anything would change if ss knew the financial arrangement (extortion) between his parents, but I guess we'll see.
still learning: You state
still learning: You state that you feel "confronting SS30 feels like re-engaging with him". My disengagement consist of staying away from SD56; if my SD breaths my air; I will back her off immediately, and she knows this. I don't consider this action as engagement, it is another step of keeping the disengagement in place. We are not friends, will never have a personal relationship again. This was her actions that brought my disengagement about.
You have every right to have privacy in your own home and you should not have to put up with PAS. The sooner you back your SS off, with no words barred; the better your disengagement will continue.
My SD tries to re-engage thru DH; it's not working and it will never happen. I just take myself out of the equation and it is an ongoing effort on my part (I am in control of my disengagement, not SD) to keep her from attempting to engage with me, because my SD thinks I will forget and forgive. The reason for my disengagement being raw; I won't subject myself to the hurt my DH and SD inflicted on me ever again. They were enjoying this game and now I took my ball and went home, I no longer play this game, I don't like their rules.
Disengagement comes in different forms, depending on the situation; but you should never have to take this type of treatment from your SS30.
^^^THIS!^^^ "The sooner you
^^^THIS!^^^ "The sooner you back your SS off, with no words barred; the better your disengagement will continue." and DH will learn he can not throw you under the bus anymore.
I agree with Sammie. Putting
I agree with Sammie. Putting pressure on your DH to man up hasn't worked. I mean, that's how skids get to be so entitled and bratty - their parents can't tell them NO. Handle this grown mooch yourself.
"you should never have to
"you should never have to take this type of treatment from your SS30."
Thanks Sammi, I needed to be reminded of this. And thanks everyone for the real/raw advice.
Now I need to practice responding to him with fact and tact, sans emotion.
I can relate to what you
I can relate to what you said, 1StepForward2. I wonder if my 3 adult skids realize that their mother gets $400 a week, plus a percentage of my husband's bonus, each year ($25,000 annually) in alimony. When my SS got married a couple of years ago, my husband and his ex were going to split the cost of the rehearsal dinner. She refused to pay her share and my husband paid the total bill, which was over $2,000.
You know, they really
You know, they really wouldn't care. In my case, the settlement was before me and it is his business. He did talk to a lawyer to see if anything could be taken out of the retirement fund to contribute towards SS's medical and education but it is too late now. He is over 18. So we just have to suck it up. The SK's really won't care so we have to let it go and not care either or keep the bitterness.
I might be tempted to play SS
I might be tempted to play SS and BRAG OUTRAGEOUSLY about all the things you have and get to do because your DH is SO GENEROUS to you. Act like you and yours are just being spoiled rotten by your DH's vast resources that are not for SS.
It could be fun to watch SS just EXPLODE with jealousy and anger. }:) }:) }:)
If I could do this with a
If I could do this with a guarantee that I'd never have to see him again this could be fun. The issue w/ss is that he's already jealous and angry about everything. DH has never said it out loud but hints at it by saying that ss has "small man syndrome." He's very short, skinny, balding, and still living w/mommy. And he just got a job delivering pizzas...a real winner.