Update On - Estranged SS24 contracts dh after 3 years.

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Ok, I shared about SS coming over for Thanksgiving. It was the first time I had seen him in 3 years.

Other than getting "the look" from ss new girlfriend I though things went fairly good. Yes I accidentally called girlfriend by their puppy's name a couple times. No, I did not do that on purpose. It's like I am trying so hard to not make any waves and YES I am uncomfortable with ss and girlfriend there. I know they will find something about me to complain about.

Well ss has not been over since Thanksgiving. He was a no show at Christmas. Dh has invited ss to breakfast a couple times via text. No answer. Dh has called a few times, again no answer. Ss did have a brief conversation with dh once.

The other night my ss called dh. We had just gone to bed so my dh gets up and goes into the other room. I stayed in bed and fell asleep but woke up about 30 mins later and could hear part of the one side of the conversation. I hear dh tell ss "well Jam thinks you all hate her". I knew ss was giving dh an ear full of complaints about me but I chose to stay in bed. After about another 30 mins or so I decided to get up. My sleeping habits are that I typically get up ever couple hours anyway. Dh tells ss good-by and that he would get right on it and that he loved him. I said NOTHING about ss. Dh tells me a bit about the conversation but did not mention anything said about me.

The next morning I still said nothing and did not ask any questions. My dh then says "I have something that I need to talk with you about". He then tells me ss said I shunned him at Thanksgiving and that he feels there is a big elephant in the room and that he is uncomfortable. DH went on to say that SS wants to have a meeting with me and that he wants dh there. Ss also said that he does not want his girlfriend there. Just the three of us.

I listen to dh and tell him a meeting would be nice if everyone involved was interested in the truth and not just want to win an argument. I also pointed out that it was interesting how I get blamed for the 3 year estrangement and now I am getting blamed again for "whatever"! I also told dh that I think ss has been playing big bad tough guy with his girlfriend and feeding her a bunch of crap and so he does not want her around to learn anything different.

Anyway, My dh says he dreads any meeting.

What thoughts do you have?

Also, I could be wrong but I

Also, I could be wrong but I really don't think there will be any meeting. I believe ss thinks I would be all against it and that he could say something like "oh well, at least I tried".

I agree with this. No need to

I agree with this. No need to put yourself in that situation. An email would definitely be the way to go.

The SS is the one that has

The SS is the one that has requested his dad arrange a meeting with the 3 of us. I don't have a problem with ss seeing his dad and certainly would rather they meet without me. As far as me accidentally calling the gf by the dogs name. It WAS an accident. It was the first (and only) time I had ever met her and their puppy.

We had this kind of meeting

We had this kind of meeting with my entire IL clan a few years ago. Due primarily to manipulation by my BIL1's wife with some notable support from other family members things had been toxic for the whole family for a number of years.

I insisted that the discussion had to focus solely on how we move forward with no venting or rehashing of past hurts, etc....

As the Sr. Outlaw in the IL clan and the only one in the mix who was not tolerating any simmering crap I had no outstanding issues with anyone so I was the facilitator since the issues were primarily between the 4 sibs (my wife, BIL1, BIL2, SIL)with some tailing issues that included my FIL and MIL and BIL1's wife, BIL2's GF, and SIL's DH.

I created and published a discussion agenda and discussion rules and informed everyone that no deviations would be tolerated. And I tolerated none.

So I kept everyone very tightly on discussion of forward motion and when someone would start to go down an historical rat hole I would jerk a knot in their tails and prod the discussion forward.

It worked wonders and now a few years down the road the IL clan interrelationships are pretty strong and now rather than the behind the scenes manipulations everyone pretty much just addresses any issues directly to the person they have issues with in a timely manner..... for the most part.

I would suggest that you and DH specifically draw up an agenda with a clear statement that rehashing of past offenses will not be discussed and the discussion will focus on moving forward. It gives things the best opportunity for a positive outcome from the meeting.

Good luck.

But, in this situation, the

But, in this situation, the people probably cared about each other and were motivated to fix the relationships?

With the OP's stepson, he just wants to place blame.

I would not go to the meeting. Instead, I would rip DH a new one for triangulating the relationship (playing both sides). Your DH is causing and faciliating drama. Tell him from now on, he is NOT to discuss you with other people. You can never have a good relationship with SS if DH is going to be a drama queen.

If SS wants a relationship, then he can go get therapy, learn how to let bygones be bygones and move forward with forgiveness and grace. I assume you are willing to also try to move forward? This is what I would tell DH. There is no need for a "here is everything wrong with stepmom" session.

No disagreement from me. It

No disagreement from me. It is the structure and process that I had in mind and that should work if effectively managed regardless of the specific relationships involved. My recommendation was meant to specifically mitigate the "here is everything wrong with stepmom" session and the counter points of "here is everything wrong with SKid" session and "here is everything wrong with dad" session.

Keeping focus and alignment on discussion of future state without rehashing history and past hurt feelings, etc.... should facilitate making this an effective session rather than just a rehashing of history.

Once the inertia takes the relationships in a more positive direction then sometime down the road if it makes sense (I don't recommend it" then a lessons learn discussion can be had regarding what caused past failures in effort. Again, I don't recommend it. If things can move forward in a more positive manner then the lessons learned is too big of a risk to consider.

Why all the drama and

Why all the drama and backchannel diplomacy? Are these SALT talks?

Why can't a grown young man call his SM and ask her to lunch? Why can't he say, "hey, I want to move forward and I thought this would be a nice gesture, now can you pass the salt?"

I would not go to this giant drama fest. At 24 the boy/man can handle his own relationships. If he has something to say to SM he can arrange the circumstances himself and flippin' say it already.

Oh, about calling the person

Oh, about calling the person the wrong name. My dh has called me bm's name so many times my new bil made a joke about it in our wedding toast.

It's no big deal. Someone you just met? No deal at all. You'd have to have paper thin skin to get upset about it in those circumstances.

And holy dog biscuits, Batman, I'd be HONORED if somebody called me by my dog's name!

My dh used to have a dog

My dh used to have a dog named Nigel. If someone was introduced to Nigel the dog and to Neville the son in law at the same time I can easily see them mixing them up. I assume op did not call the gf "Rover" or "Fido."

Some people are better with names and can't imagine that happening. But I well can. I have way too many other things to be offended about to worry about being called Daphne (the dog) when I'm the one named Taffy by someone who just met me.

Well, I married him. He is a

Well, I married him. He is a wonderful, kind, responsible, reliable, thoughtful, generous, and loving man.

But for the first 3 dates he could not remember my name. Seriously.

ETA: It doesn't matter what the respective names of the dog and gf were. They could have sounded alike, maybe they didn't. But dogs very often have human names these days. It is not credible to assume the OP called the gf Rover or Fido.

It's not just my dh, btw. I've been called the wrong name by people ALL my life. I have an active profession where you are meeting new people all the time. And also a profession where my name is quite well known by people I've never met. Yet they STILL get it wrong. ALL THE TIME.

So yes I know very well what it feels like. I laugh it off. I've got bigger fish to fry. And I just hope people will forgive me when I do something similar.

I find the name thing to be a

I find the name thing to be a petty non issue at worst. I suck at names. I remember detail like how many kids people have, where they went to university, but names for some reason don't stick with me unless I put a lot of focus and effort into learning them upon introduction.

I married my XW 29 years ago and we have been divorced for nearly 27 years. Periodically I will call my wife by my XW's name. I have no idea why. It is usually when my mind has been wandering or ..... a memory is piqued by something.

It happens very rarely but it does happen. My wife will slip and call me by the SpermIdiot's name but again it is very rare.

When it happens we just laugh it off. I drop the line, "Nope, that was the other guy." when she slips up.

My mom can't ever get our names right (between my younger surviving brother and I) so we usually get called by a hybrid of our two names. This has been going on for must of my life since my first brother was born. I am the eldest by 6yrs so one would think that differentiating between a 6yo and a baby would not be that challenging.

As for her GKids. All four of their names start with a C. That is some funny stuff when everyone is together at my mom and dad's house or if we are talking about one or more of the GKids.

Really? I get my cat and my

Really? I get my cat and my kid mixed up all the time. Kid is 3, cat is 17.

When you meet someone new in

When you meet someone new in their home, (especially your BF's father and SM who BF has been estranged from for three years), do you arrive with a attitude on your face and a dog in your arms?

OP mentioned in previous forum post GF has short cute girl name. I'll bet puppy has short cute girl name too. One is sitting on the sofa giving evil stink eye. One is running around room sniffing and snooping perhaps looking for a place to go potty or choosing what she'd like to try chewing on first....who's name would you remember?

Of course I make the effort

Of course I make the effort to learn peoples' names. Doesn't mean I get it right every time. It's not a personal attack if I get it wrong or mispronounce it. If someone takes it that way, I really think that's about them.

And actually, I started calling the kid by the cat's name mere moments after birth. Still feeling a little embarrassed about that lol!!!

Yeah, it's okay if married SM

Yeah, it's okay if married SM and DH get an invite to SK's wedding, and the invite even says, Mr. and Mrs. XYZ (meaning DH and his wife, SM), and then when they both arrive at the wedding, SM's husband is stripped from her arms, SM/dad's wife is figuratively locked in a closet, and then some other woman, BM is paraded around the rest of the evening as DH's partner and spouse. That's perfectly okay. Nothing impolite about that! To make matters worse, if SM dares to act even remotely shocked that she is not allowed to be with her husband of many years, she is considered a ho for trying to take BM's place!!!!

BUT, if SM gets the GF's name wrong, that she just met for the first time, probably due largely to nervousness, then that is impolite. Gawd! The hypocrisy SMs have to put up with is absolutely amazing. There is no end to it.

Actually, it wouldn't bother

Actually, it wouldn't bother me at all, because I judge people by how they treat me and others. You can call me !@#wipe and as long as you're nice to me, A-ok. (But, pls., no one start calling me that now. )

I'm sitting here laughing as

I'm sitting here laughing as I read this. Can imagine the uproar if a SM posted that her SK,BM or SK's SO accidentally called her by the dog's name a few times???

No one here would think it wasn't a big deal. I pretty sure everyone of us would say the kid and/or SO was being a passive aggressive ass.

I think the meeting is a set up. The kid will use it as a chance to attack the OP. Let son and father talk out whatever issues they have. Then decide if you want to welcome the kid into your life or not.

"No one" would have to

"No one" would have to un-include me, since at a first meeting.... I think it's normal to forget names or pronounciation and to correct people. Of any age. I'd only start to think there was passive aggressive skulduggery going on if it was a pattern. Or if there were other clues, like smarminess or rudeness or maniacal laughter when I turned my back.

Agreed that the meeting is BS.

Ditto. Just call me "no one,"

Ditto. Just call me "no one," too.

Even if they were doing it on purpose I wouldn't care. I would just roll my eyes and think they were making a jackass of themselves.

I'm with you, idleven. SM is

I'm with you, idleven. SM is the only job in the world where everything you do is wrong and nothing anybody around her does is wrong. All. the. time.

BTW, my husband's nephew brought a girlfriend to Christmas one year ago. I was the only one who noticed she was wearing what appeared to be an engagement ring on her left hand ring finger. Pretty sure I was paying attention to her and "recognizing her as a person," one could argue even more so than the others in the room who had known her for years.

But I could not remember her name. Still can't. They broke up this year anyway.

I would only attend a meeting

I would only attend a meeting like that with a therapist that you've vetted present, otherwise it's just going to be a gang up on Jam session. ss is going to blame and dump on you while DH puts his head in the sand. If DH were a smart protective husband he would nip this with his son w/out involving you at all; but so many of us myself included, have DH's that cower to their kids.

I would tell DH that the estrangement and all of their issues are between the two of them. You are out!

***ps. don't feel bad about calling the gf by the puppy's name. I call my dog my daughters name all the time.

Whenever DH brings up this

Whenever DH brings up this kind of thing, just tell him that it feels like gossiping to discuss SS when SS isn't there, and you don't like gossip. He'll figure it out.

People need to handle their own business. SS has a beef with you - the person to discuss it with is you. When he's able to do that, you'll know and a 'meeting' will not be an issue.

This whole thing sounds like

This whole thing sounds like a set-up, if you ask me. Of course after one “family” meeting in three years SS is going to blame you. Why? Because clearly, he feels you are 100% the problem and he is 0% the problem.

If he really was interested in getting together with pops or both you and pops, he’d know that it takes time to rebuild a relationship. So, he goes to one dinner after three years, and bingo!, you are some whack job who didn’t give him the time of day. I find it interesting that you actually thought things went well, WHICH they probably did for a first-time meeting in years. But, SS has his mind made up its all on you and nothing is on him.

I’m not sure what SS is fishing for, but he is fishing for something. And, I hate to say this, but he seems to be leading whatever he has in mind (and I don’t think it’s getting back together with anyone), while you and your husband almost seem to be cowering.

My suggestion, your DH and SS can get together, and maybe DH alone can get at what SS is really looking for? Did SS whine and complain to his girlfriend, and then thought he’d bring her and it would be all be happy-joy? He got what he wanted—he wanted to show his girlfriend that you were evil SM, and boo-hoo him. Don’t get me wrong. You did absolutely nothing wrong. You could have been Mother Theresa and both him and his girlfriend probably would have walked away from this with the “proof” they needed that you were the sole problem.

Remember, general society seems to think that everyone and anyone other than SM knows how to be a SM. And, that includes girlfriends of two months too, unfortunately. This girlfriend should be given absolutely no authority in the family. She is not married to your SS, and just met you once, and already seems put-out. You don’t owe her anything.

Stand back and let DH handle his son a while sans GF and see what comes of it. I’d avoid a meeting with you and DH and your SS, because it already seems SS is going for the upper hand, and your DH is allowing this. Your DH needs to learn how to control involvement with him first, before you can. If DH doesn’t want to go alone, that’s on him and not you.

I would never do this type of

I would never do this type of meeting. If you agree, insist a counselor be present. I would tell DH that perhaps he and SS need to focus on their relationship without Jam involved.

^^^^^THIS. All of your skids'

^^^^^THIS.

All of your skids' attitudes have been influenced and perverted by PAS. Each of them seem to be filled with resentment and lacking in self awareness. Not one of them have ever had a healthy, consistent relationship with their father, yet this adult brat wants to make this all about you? Your skids practically seethe with anger every time they're around their father. Their issues are both old and deep. You just make a convenient target.

You've told us that your H is weak and won't stand up to any of his kids, so there is nothing to be gained by going along with SS's little scapegoating session. You can, however, tell you H that you see this as an opportunity for him and his son to work through some of the longstanding issues between them. Tell him that while you are merely peripheral, the father/son relationship is most important and should be worked on first (with the help of a therapist experienced in step relations, of course).

^^^^^This too^^^^^ Tell DH

^^^^^This too^^^^^
Tell DH this is about him building his relationship with his son and working out how to communicate like adults without girlfriends or wives running interference. This is about SS and DH. Without you there he cannot blame you. Well he can try but when DH talks to you, you can remind him that you did not set eyes on SS for 3 yrs until this past Tgiving so anything he does say is very dated and clouded with preconception and bias. Let his chew on that for a whille

SS put off communicating with

SS put off communicating with DH for 3 years and then was unresponsive to DH's attempted communication with him? Looks like if there is a communication problem it's between DH and SS. Maybe they need to work on this before scapegoating their communication issues to you.

SD used to tell DH I did not make her comfortable when she visited. When I asked for specifics DH suddenly got that 'deer in the headlights' look on his face and could not come up with one 'violation'. I then informed DH that SD made me VERY uncomfortable in my own home, gave him specific instances where this occurred, and that I had witnesses. DH never mentioned it again.

One thing that DOES need addressed, and this does not require SS's presence, is your DH's need to discuss anything about you with SS. It's a betrayal of his duty as a husband. SS is not part of your marriage to DH. DH and SS should be discussing THEIR relationship with each other only. When SS visits your home he is DH's son, not yours. It is not up to you to make SS 'comfortable'. It is all about identifying responsibility.

Hi Sandy, My ss had been

Hi Sandy,

My ss had been ignoring calls and texts from my dh. So when ss does call he has to have a reason for not answering dh's calls/texts and so he blames me. SS tells dh that I had shunned him at thanksgiving and that he does not feel comfortable coming around because of me, and then goes further to say he would like for the 3 of us to meet to get the elephant out of the room. My dh also told me that when he would mention something that was in my defense that ss would get loud and speak over him.

My plan is to push back. I do not want to met with ss as I know that it would just be ss's time to beat up jam and although my dh tries to reassure me that he will protect me I know from past experiences he will set there like a lump on a log and later tell me I need to treat it as water off a ducks back.

"...later tell me I need to

"...later tell me I need to treat it as water off a ducks back."

I love it when they can tell their spouses how to behave but not their children.

Good for you for pushing back

Good for you for pushing back from this one. This is ridiculous - how can SS blame anything on you if you haven't communicated with him in three years? I would tell DH the meeting should be just SS and DH - to discuss the obvious lack of communication between the two of them BEFORE including you in anything. DH is desperately trying to get you into the 'meeting' so he doesn't have to face what is HIS responsibility. Refuse to even take part in any meeting with SS with DH until this occurs.

^^This seriously. It's just

^^This seriously.

It's just another opportunity to throw you under the bus. Meeting w/them about ss's issues at all is acknowledging that you have some part in their drama which is just not true or possible.

Why bother? It's up to your

Why bother? It's up to your SS and your DH to work out anything between them. You have graciously allowed him in your home. You don't have to be more than civil and polite.

If you and SS were to have an open and honest conversation both of you would probably just admit that you don't like each other. And talking wouldn't change that one bit.

There's really no reason that you and SS have to have any kind of bond or relationship. Again - being civil and polite is enough.

IF my bios were estranged

IF my bios were estranged because they were mad at me then so be it. BS for them to come knocking on the door 1,2 3 years later. They would not be allowed in.

A healthy parent / child relationship does not look like that.

**I do not 'do' family drama** Most importantly I am sooo thankful my bio's and I (we) don't have this craziness. Nor do I with my bio elders/family. Skids and their BM are not included in my previous sentence. Although I feel sad for anyone who has dynamics as OP, I have learned it is a choice to make whether or NOT to continue in the unhealthy dynamic or to put a stop to it by not putting UP with it.

YES it is that easy.

I thank you all for taking

I thank you all for taking the time to read and post your thoughts.

I need to correct something I said. I actually called the puppy by the girlfriends name. I did not call her by the puppy's name. Her name is "Zoie". At this point I don't even remember the puppy's name. The funny thing is SS apparently complained about everything under the sun about me but did not complain about me calling the puppy by the girlfriends name. Regardless, it was only an accident.

I really do not want to have a meeting with dh & his son. Before thanksgiving ever arrived I had told my dh that HE needed to work on his and his son's relationship without me but HE insisted on inviting son to thanksgiving.

They (dh & skids) like to play the "pretend nothing ever happened" game. I on the other hand am not going to pretend the estrangement never happened and run out to ss's car when he drives up for the first time in 3 YEARS and give him a kiss & hug, especially when ss can not take any ownership of not talking with his dad for 3 years. SS instead blames me for the estrangement.

I thought Thanksgiving was ok. Seemed as if everyone was fine. I went out of my way to introduce ss girlfriend to everyone spite the girlfriend giving me the "oh your the witch I have been told about" look. I also bragged about how cute their puppy was. SS tells dh that I shunned him. After shunning his father and me for 3 years he is going to turn it around that I shunned him AND THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

Anyway, back to "Thank you for your time". I really do appreciate the thoughts of fellow step-mothers. Thanks again

Good to know. SS didn't even

Good to know. SS didn't even notice the name switch in his complaints and he was LOOKING for stuff so there you go.

jam, in the first 18 months of marriage BM began asking for a dinner with DH and me. It came out eventually that she wanted to "discuss ways of handling SDthen13/14). DH and I burst out laughing. Like BM is an expert parent? PUH-lease.

When we still didn't know what she wanted to discuss we both were very leery, too. We talked it out and in no way did it seem like a good idea to either of us. We thought of offering her a short coffee somewhere instead but even that we mutually decided was just crazy. I feel certain we made the right decision.

Tell your dh you respect the fellow is an adult and can handle his own affairs. If he has something to say to you, let him say it. I also like someone's suggestion to refuse to gossip.

It really was interesting

It really was interesting that SS did not complain about me calling the puppy by the girlfriends name. The second time it happened it was one of those moments where you stick your foot in your mouth and when you attempt to try and fix that problem you push your foot deeper. I called the puppy by girlfriends name right in front of girlfriend and SS. So what did I say to try and fix it. Ready for my industrial strength stupid statement? I said "Oh, I'm sorry, it's just that it would really make a good name for a dog." Then after stuttering for a moment that that was not what I meant, I excused myself & got busy doing something else.

And you're so right. After

And you're so right. After three years of vigorously shunning you two, that young man has a LOT of nerve. He should be repenting and apologizing and offering overtures to mend fences.

My exh has a dog named Zoey.

My exh has a dog named Zoey. Yes I can see how it would be easy to mix the names up.

Hahaha...a meeting, what a

Hahaha...a meeting, what a joke; it is a set up. You see he thought not coming and ignoring dadeeee would make him leave you or at least abuse you; that did not work and now he is trying another approach to effectively abuse you....Not a chance, child/man.

Why can't he meet with you? Because he does not have enough audience, that is why.

After one of mine abused me I asked her if we could discuss it and I would take her to lunch at least three times, she told me it was "water under her bridge." So, now she is water under mine; it was her decision, and she was the one who excluded me.

Look, most men are not like Rags; he is a 20% er guy who can handle his blended family, complete with agenda and meeting participation bylaws. 80% of us, on the other hand, live with jello men who try to keep the peace at the cost of his wife and his kids, really.

You have to know when to throw in your towel, when you only have a 20% chance of success....Just sayin...

Do not go!

AGREE ^^^^^^

I did not read all the

I did not read all the comments....

my 2cents - I will go to this meeting, but before hand I will take some serious calming meds.... Then I will listen to SS, and I will ask him certain things when he's done talking, I will put him on the spot and always remain calm.

1 Why did you ignore your father 3 years, it's easy meeting up in a restaurant you know... call him, txt him
2 Why suddenly now? Are you getting married and now you want us to pay for this?

Through out I will be as calm as a cucumber... and I will say my peace

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Update On - Estranged SS24 contracts dh after 3 years.