Civil divorce to Psycho divorce question
This one I just can't figure out. Opinions welcome.
My brother and ex sister in law divorced ten years ago without any drama and Mutually agreed on joint legal custody. The two kids were 2 and 4 and the first 3 or 4 years post divorce my bro and SIL got along wonderfully. SIL would even have my bro over once a week for "family dinner". They did joint bday parties for the kids and would talk freely on the phone about the kids.
THEN about 6 years ago EX SIL did a huge 180 regarding my brother. She refused to have joint bday parties with him anymore for the kids , refused to let him keep the kids any extra time or take the kids if he needed to work. Would only Communicate with my bro by email. SIL will now go WAY out of her way to sit as far away from my brother at kids sporting events when before they would sit close so the kids had easy access to both parents. SIL is now basically VERY short and rude to my brother. I always thought time heals but in my brother's case it's gotten WAY worse.
Thoughts on why SIL and my brother did a Phenomenal job coparenting when they first divorced but know SIL seems to make it her job to make things as difficult as possible for my brother.
Did your SIL's sudden change
Did your SIL's sudden change toward her ex coincide with him moving on and finding a new partner?
If not, maybe she had hope that they would get back together and when she realized they aren't she got mad.
No the only thing that changed is
SIL got a boyfriend
There's your answer.
There's your answer.
BM got much more nasty to DH
BM got much more nasty to DH when she got her claws in her current husband. It's all an act to get the new guy to feel like a white night to swoop in and save her. She is sending signals to the new BF. Sorry for your brother, it's not personal.
Who knows why...
Ill echo stepnorth and Evil both good points.!
Is she in therapy? Cause a good therapist may have lead her this way. The way it was there was no room for new partners, or at the very least it would be uncomfortable for the new relationship. Family dinners weekly? Not good for moving on and reality for the kids. The kids would be very resentful of a new partner especially if this closeness stopped.
Does she have someone new and they are setting boundaries.? Or as Evil said does your brother? Im leaning towards your brother has someone new. Her about face on contact was abrupt. The situation worked for them while single and divorced, with a touch of maybe we can get back together on SIL part?
Boundaries
I agree with the others. For whatever reason, healthy boundaries have been put into place and enforced. It could be a new relationship, it could be she thought they would get back together, and was smoking the hopium for a long time (6 years!).
This was started 6 years ago and you are trying to find out now? Is there something precipitating your quest for answers?
Smoking the HOPE-ium! I'm
Smoking the HOPE-ium! I'm stealing that XD
w/ my own experience to fall
w/ my own experience to fall back on, my exhusband and I did very well when it was the two parents making the decisions, etc. But one he added his wife into the picture things got very strained and often just plain mean spirited.
Dittoing above. Also
Dittoing above. Also something to consider is who initiated the divorce and why, and what kind of persons your brother and XSIL are.
If your brother blindsided your XSIL with wanting a divorce, she may have thought there was a chance they'd get back together. Maybe he finally told her that wasn't going to happen so she put up boundaries for herself.
Maybe he was/is abusive/toxic to her and she's finally starting to get away from that.
Maybe she has always been unstable and has cycled back to being less courteous.
Maybe she initiated the divorce and was trying to keep the peace with your brother, but he took advantage of the situation so she had to put up boundaries.
Maybe she joined a BM group who convinced her that she needed those boundaries (wouldn't be any different than what we'd advise here).
It's impossible to know for sure why she made the change, but I also wouldn't automatically assume that she is the problem. It's very easy to blame the party we aren't connected with as the problem when reality is that it's probably a combo of both of them. They got divorced for a reason. The problems that existed in the marriage don't just disappear after divorce.
I think it's SIL's boyfriend.
I think it's SIL's boyfriend. My DH and his ex were very friendly after they separated and then divorced. Joint birthday parties, joint outings, holidays spent together, etc. Several months after DH and I started dating, the holidays (halloween, to be specific) came around. DH went to a family Halloween party with BM's family, which I wasn't thrilled about. Then he wanted BM to accompany us for trick or treating, since Halloween fell on one of his days. I told him he was free to trick or treat with BM, but if he did I wouldn't be going, nor would we be dating anymore. That promptly ended the joint events. They are still amicable and don't go out of their way to avoid each other at school events or sports, but the enmeshment stopped years ago when I insisted on it. So my money is on the new partner not liking the divorced couple continuing to play "family."
You probably are right about SIL new Boyfriend
And "playing family" with your ex would not sit well with me either. BUT having a Boyfriend does not explain Ex SIL nasty behavior towards my brother for no other reason except getting a Boyfriend who is now her husband
Because your brother probably
Because your brother probably acts differently with you than he does his ex.
You're going to see your brother through rose-colored glasses. You'll also be more likely to excuse his behavior, and he's more likely to not be forthcoming about his behavior with you either because he doesn't want to look like the bad guy OR he doesn't think his behavior is all that bad.
The type of relationship you described between your brother and his ex sounded more enmeshed than co-parenting. Like I said in my previous post, there is a reason they got divorced and those issues don't just magically resolve. Her getting a new partner is going to change their co-parenting relationship because there is no way it doesn't (for the millions of reasons that get discussed on this board on a daily basis).
Basically, don't blame her when you can't know the intimate details. You'll never have a clear perspective because he's your brother and she's the ex.
bull's eye
bull's eye
All her boundaries seem normal and healthy ... It is called "moving on"
I see co-parenting as meeting
I see co-parenting as meeting the agreed upon parameters of the court order. Things like family dinners, joint parties, chatting on the phone, are all extras that both parents need to feel comfortable with. If they were required, they would be included in court orders. Ultimately, there are reasons they divorced. Perhaps some of that is surfacing and SIL doesn't feel comfortable explaining herself.
It would be one thing if she was suddenly bad-mouthing your brother to their kids, refusing to exchange when it's in the CO, harassing you, etc. But it sounds like she decided to tighten the boundaries while adhering to the agreed terms for reasons we may never know. It might be upsetting to you and your brother, but she's allowed to.
I read on one of the comment threads that she has a new BF. He could be jealous, or he could have some legitimate reasons to have more boundaries, or it might not be him at all and all her own decision. Or a combination.
Just wanted to add that I think it's sweet you care so much about your brother and his kids. They are lucky to have a kind aunt like you. Take care and be well
They should have never played married after he divorce.
Had they actually lived reality instead of their muli-year delusion this would not even be a topic of discussion beyond.... My XSIL is a raging bitch.
The fake happy family, while somewhat honorable, is naive at best and abusive to the kids at worst.
And btw, she is not your SIL. She is nothing more than your brothers XW , your XSIL, and the womb donor for your nieces/nephews.
It is far less painful to put those factual labels on her than give her space in your head and heart wondering why she went from sappy sweet to raging biotch.
IMHO of course.
My assumption is that her adding a F-buddy was/is the impetus of becoming a raging Biotch.
Take care of you, have your brother's back, have your niece's/nephew's backs. They are blessed to have you.
Why do you feel the need to
Why do you feel the need to call the XSIL names like "raging biotch" and "womb donor"? Absolutely nothing in OP's description makes this woman sound unreasonable, just setting up more boundaries - a thing YOU push people to do all the time.
So which is it? Is she a b*tch for having boundaries and sticking to them, or was she right for finally deciding that boundaries needed to be in place?
It's gross to call someone a name when 1) the information is coming from a biased source (no offense to OP on that one; it happens when dealing with family you care about), and 2) it's behavior you yourself have exhibited but don't extend the same grace to someone else.
Maybe don't call women derogatory names, especially when you don't know the truth about a situation.
ETA: Also, that "F-Buddy" is her HUSBAND that she started dating years after the divorce. I highly, HIGHLY doubt you'd appreciate being called an "F-Buddy" in relation to your wife. She is allowed to date and move on with her life. If OP's brother's GF or wife (if he has one) also a F-Buddy or is it only this dude because you see his wife as "less than"?
I guess I left out important information sorry
My exSIL cheated on my brother and gave him Sexually transmitted disease while married. Ex SIL left my brother for another man. Within months of my brother moving out the kids would come over for visits and tell my brother "mommy has two boyfriends that sleep over" but the kids were to keep it secret from my brother. Plus exSIL told the kids not to tell the two boyfriends about each other too. ExSIL lied about this when my brother asked her if she was having the kids lie about men or if she was dating two men at once. Yes not my brother's business but he did not like EXSIL telling the kids to "keep secrets" regarding different men. I think EXSIL may have been nice at first as she was to busy Juggling different men and the boyfriends really did not care about the kids. Once EXSIL got a steady BF then husband she got nasty.
While that definitely changes
While that definitely changes the context of the type of person she is, still two things:
1.) Why does it surprise you that she "turned psycho" when she was seemingly already not a stellar spouse or parent before? Genuinely asking, because if you are a SP yourself, you not recognizing that this would be the likely outcome may be causing you other stress in steplife. I don't mean for that to sound rude, but a woman who cheated, lied, and asked her kids to lie is someone waving a whole slew of red flags. If you were able to ignore those from her, I'm worried you may be ignoring similar red flags in your relationship.
2.) The new context doesn't justify what Rags called your XSIL prior to knowing that. Whether it's justified to call her those things anyway is debatable, but to jump out the gate calling her names when it wasn't fully laid out isn't okay. It's especially not okay when your first post really made it sound like she was just putting up boundaries, something we encourage all divorced parents to do. Women get sh*t on for not being nice enough or when they do put up boundaries, and it didn't seem fair or appropriate to do that to her at the time.
Hmmm I need to jump in on this
First there is a difference between putting up Boundaries and being a nasty b@tch. Just because you are divorced does not mean you can't work together to co-parent. Yes joint bday parties is something I would NOT be ok with BUT not being flexible with the custody agreement if someone has to work or Purposely going out of your way to sit as far as possible from your ex only hurts the kids. The OP did mention also xSIL got nasty to her brother. Again just because you are divorced does not mean you can't be Civil with each other. You divorced your ex not your kids. You still need to raise your kids together. To me it sounds like the new husband is Insecure or jealous of her ex and making her prove her love to him by making her be as nasty as she can to her xhusband.
Depends on the reason why you
Depends on the reason why you aren't flexible with the custody agreement. Is it because one parent is ALWAYS flexible and it's causing issues for the kids? Do they not sit together because one parent is causing issues (like telling the kid "we'll get ice cream after this but only if your mom/dad says it's okay" and making the parent with custody at the time have to be the bad guy)?
Also what does "got nasty" and "rude" mean? That is really up to interpretation and circumstance. If all you hear is me sternly saying NO once, that may come across as rude because you've missed the 10 other times I was nice about it.
My whole point is that context here is important. Nothing OP posted up until the update I responded to mentioned anything specific that was objectively awful. It COULD be awful, but it could also be justified.
Whooaaaa yeah that changes my
Whooaaaa yeah that changes my thoughts on this a bit.
The woman cheated on him, gave him an STI, is bringing in mulitple men in their children's lives, and your brother is still reaching for her attention? If I were you I would be HAPPY she was putting boundaries between them because your poor bro is still wrapped around the pinky of this manipulative woman. Is he ok? Is he in therapy? I would want him to explore why he's attracted to that toxicity. If that were my brother I would have been telling HIM to put those boundaries up.
Commenting on the presented XSIL behaviors made by the OP.
I do not see anyone as less than. I am an equal opportunity detester of behaviors that are notably negative.
We have only what is presented. I do not delve into much depth beyond that and I focus on the behaviors, and the whats. I do not delve into what-if nor do I tend to delve into the why.
Generally speaking.
I sling the derogatory descriptives liberally and somewhat equally based on the specific character perpetrating the discussed/described behaviors. XHs, XWs, Skids, ILs, etc....
The OP posted a topic on why her SIL went from engaging to difficult. My response(s) expressed my opinions on the presented topic.
As it turned out, there is more to the story. Including the SIL spreading crotch rot to her now XH/OP's brother due to her extracurricular activites.
Not having joined birthday
Not having joined birthday parties or keeping communication to emails or sitting further away at games is not a "hate mode" but a normal behavior.
sounds like you are having lots of judgement about her and want to meddle in their situation. Why is your brother telling you about STDs? Not appropriate. Seems you lack boundaries yourself and are upset that SIL wants to have healthy boundaries with her ex. Stay out of it
BM was nicer (but still mean)
BM was nicer (but still mean) when she felt superior to DH. As soon as he "moved on" and had a serious girlfriend (me) and then a wife and a home, she lost her mind entirely.
Same here!
My DH's ex was a conniving, sneaky pos who would masquerade as an award winning mother. When she found out he had in fact moved on after their divorce was final, she lost any sanity she had left. I truly believe she is a narcissist.
It's probably no reflection
On your brother. She'll be covering her own lousy backside.
I'd put bets her bf/husband has heard and believes she was the victim in your brothers marriage. Because who's going to say I was a cheat, liar and gave him an sti , I'm perfect partner martial. Therefore she has to treat your brother like the cr×p she's made him out to be.
Just a theory
And an excellent theory,
And an excellent theory, Lifer33! Winner, winner, chicken dinner, as the kiddies would say.