When Does It End?
I apologize for this being poorly written, rather out of sequence. I'm just kinda fed up today.
I have been dating my boyfriend for 8+ years (2007). I am 28 and he is 36. He has two "biological" children with his ex-wife (2004 and 2005). When he met his ex-wife, she had a child from a previous encounter. He has raised that child since she was 6 months old (2002).
It's a convoluted story. I don't even know where to begin. This is a short, polite, recent version.
The main issue is, my boyfriend wants to marry me. He has for a long time. First, I was just young and didn't want to get married, then he became jaded by his divorce and went through all of that. I don't think he will ever be fully healed, but he is better. Now, my problem is (which I knew from the beginning because he didn't hide the fact that he has children and is divorced) the money, the energy, the time spent dealing with the manipulations of the ex-wife. He has tried different arrangements of ways to give her money; give her the child support monthly and give extra money when she needs it, give all child support for the year at the beginning of the year, etc.
He knows he cannot save for a future (his own or ours) if he keeps giving her money and she doesn't properly use it. But, he cannot control what she does with the money. So, now he gives her the child support monthly and tells the children if they need anything (toothbrushes, pencils, clothes, etc.) let HIM know and he will buy it. This is instead of giving the money to her because she uses it for something else.
In addition to the money issues, she either 1) will not bring the children over or 2)will cause a huge scene when he tries to pick them up. She has actually physically attacked him on multiple occasions; the children have been witness to this and state that he didn't do or say anything to her to provoke the attack.
It's like she is trying to keep him out of their life as much as possible. To name some of the things she has done, the children were baptized and no one told him until after the fact, there was a school program recently that oldest was in and she didn't tell him. Then to top that off, he had asked if it was okay to pick the kids up on a certain day, a week in advance. She said, "Sure." Then on that day, she drops the two biological children off and he asks why the oldest isn't coming. She said, "Oh, she's in a program today," So the two youngest had to choose between their dad and seeing their sister's program. The reason he decided not to go to the program was because he had planned to take them all somewhere and that thing was happening on that day only. He frequently tries to plan things for them to do and his plans was thwarted. So, this time he said he wasn't going to let her interfere and maybe she will be more forthcoming. Also, she didn't tell him so he things she didn't want him to go, so he didn't.
He says this is emotionally draining (I am sure) and it just makes him not want to pick them up. As the children are getting older they are starting to see that their mother is the cause to a lot of problems; they have started to blame her for their divorce. In addition to this, the mother is of course trying to manipulate the children to thinking whatever she wants. It is not so successful with the younger two (ages 8 and 9), but with her oldest (she is 11)- it is starting to take effect. The last time they came over there was a noticeable difference in the demeanor of the eldest. He said something to me about it.
He has thought about just giving up on them and about taking custody of his biological children, but he doesn't want to because they won't be with their sister. He has legal custody of the son (which is something they both agreed on) and has thought about just having the son move in, but then he wouldn't be obligated to send her money and says he wouldn't but then the other two would obviously suffer.
I doubt he could just give up on them anyway because something similar happened to him when he was growing up. Actually his situation was a lot worse.
In the beginning of the relationship he talked about getting a paternity test. But, the children look like splitting images of him; it just seemed like a waste. Now, I just want to get one just to know. At this point, I don't know if he could stop being involved in their lives, even though he claims he sometimes wants to.
I feel like getting a hold of her credit report so I can figure out what is really going on with her financial situation so I could help her out (pay off her debt discreetly) so she can move on with her life. I know that is how crazy I am getting.
The thing is, she is just tons more agreeable and polite when he gives her extra money (who isn't). Tells him about the happenings with the children, drops them off, calls so they can talk to him, etc.
He helped her establish paternity for her first child so she could get child support (years ago, but still). He has helped her get a job. He has helped her file paperwork for school. He has given her money to pay for a certification and license for a new career path. He has helped her move, actually this last time, I also helped.
A few months ago, I said to him, the first 8 years went by pretty fast, there's only 10 years left and then we're free. Now, I'm like I don't want to go through this for 10 more years. These were the easy years.
I can't (don't want to) get married and start a family knowing what things are like now. I can only assume that things will get worse from here and quite honestly I don't want to be around for anymore of this nonsense. Whatever the circumstance of these children's conception, I'm not the one who impregnated this woman and I don't want to keep paying for it with with my energy and time.
I feel like he is an idiot and I am a bigger idiot for staying with him. I feel like I need to throw out an ultimatum just to make things move faster.
I recently ended things with
I recently ended things with my man precisely because, like you, I realized it's not my burden to bear and I should not be expected to pick up the slack. I am sorry you are going through this, but you're NOT alone! Getting married won't fix anything; if the situation is bad it's going to remain bad, legally wed or not. If I were you I would honestly spare myself the headache and heartache. Easier said than done, I know, but I would get out now.
Your fear of having wasted 8
Your fear of having wasted 8 years can cause you to waste another 8 before you realize this is a lost cause. A million guys who got their career started before starting a family are just now looking to marry a woman your age. Admit to this guy it was a mistake, thank your God you didn't have children with him, and go find a guy to start your own family.
you are so young (only
you are so young (only 28).
if you want a family of your own, break it off.
the feeling of freedom and relief you will have when you do this will far outweigh the sadness. you wont even realize how bad you had it for so long until you are out.
I agree leaving *might* be
I agree leaving *might* be the best option, but it sounds like you maybe want to explore if there are any other possibilities first - otherwise you'd just leave him instead of posting here.
So. Ideal world, what does it look like? (Yes, I know, "no skids". Besides that.) Does he just give her child support money and no more? Stop interacting with her at all other than necessary info about the kids? There are options there. He doesn't have to give her extra - or even buy extra for the kids. It doesn't matter what her finances look like, and if the extra stops coming in then she'll figure out how to live within her means. (Honestly, they won't become homeless or starve - and if it IS that bad then he could get custody and you wouldn't have to worry about Crazy Lady.) As for the kids schedules, he doesn't need BM there either. Have him call the school and tell them he needs emails on all important dates, that you're in a high conflict situation and cannot get the info from the mother. Tell him to be more involved at school, join the PTA, whatever - that's his information route, not BM.
Bottom line is, figure out what YOU need to be happy in this relationship. What do you want it to look like? If you can tell us that, we might be able to offer some good suggestions on how to get there, many people here have had to deal with craziness and have developed some good coping strategies!
Now, I just want him to give
Now, I just want him to give her the monthly payment and nothing else. I want a schedule of visitation. I don't want them talking about work (they work at the same place. I know. I know. But, I've never been concerned about him physically cheating on me. That would make all this easier. I'm starting to see that the emotional cheating is worse because I am trying to justify it). I don't want him to entertain her arguments about the past and why they divorced; what I mean by this is if she starts talking about it, I want him to hang up. Basically no more unnecessary contact between the two of them.
I just want him to stop feeling guilty about leaving his children or her. If he needed to take custody of his two biological children and leave the the oldest one behind, at this point, I would be fine with that. But, I feel so heartless for thinking that let alone putting it into the world.
WHEW - Okay, here we go: You
WHEW - Okay, here we go:
You are too young to voluntarily deal with this crap. You might think he's your soulmate and blah blah blah but you also might wake up in 10 years wishing that you hadn't wasted half of your life and most of your finances. BUT...I also know that you cannot tell young people when they are making mistakes. They seem to be hardwired to have to make their own so...this advice is given IF you choose to stay.
1. Does he have a Court Order? What is in it? HAVE YOU READ IT?
2. Your BF needs to set and ENFORCE boundaries with BM. NO CALLS. Everything in writing. With high-conflict BMs like this, you WILL end up going back to court again, it's just a matter of time. DOCUMENT EVERYTHING with dates/times, etc. Keep a notebook just for this purpose.
3. You BOTH need to learn not to be codependent and enabling. Even if she isn't an addict, the same things apply. When you continually bail her out, there is no incentive for her to change for the better. Much better to let her sink or swim on her own. She is no longer a couple with your BF but neither of them seem to realize this...and YOU are playing into it too! You know what *I* would have said if either my DH or BM asked ME to help her move?? I don't think I would have said ANYTHING because I would have been dying from LAUGHTER!
4. He needs to have child support taken out of his checks automatically by the state. Then NO MORE EXTRA MONEY. It isn't getting used on the children anyway. And BM is laughing all the way to the bank. If she runs out of money, have him tell her GET A JOB! Child support is NOT alimony!
5. Have the court order changed to a neutral third-party exchange place. We used the place that did supervised visitations. Best $15/month ever spent! My DH also got a No Contact order put in the CO which put a stop (mostly) to BM's harassment.
6. Read up and have your BF read up on everything to do with Parental Alienation Syndrome and how to combat it.
7. She has primary physical but he has primary legal of ONE? How in the heck did that come about? That doesn't make any sense to me. If he has a CO, she is breaking the legal custody rule. If not, he is SOL. Even if she is in contempt, don't think that will make her change. Our BM had TWO PAGES of denied visits that we took her to court for. She got Contempt and had to pay $500 fine to DH. Not even any make up time. Our damn lawyer cost more than that! All it did was get her to stop taking him to court every single year. She went back to the normal every three years for the money grab.
8. Custody battles are not always so cut and dried as you guys think. It will and can drain your finances and your energy. Sometimes for NOTHING except it pisses off the BM and makes her ramp up her crazy.
9. He cannot live his life in fear of HER. The less he fights FOR his kids, the more they are around the nutcase.
10. Even if he got primary custody, there are states that will STILL make him pay CS to her if he makes a significant amount more. Stupid, but that's the way it is. Even 50/50 custody doesn't automatically do away with CS.
11. A paternity test is worthless at this point. Men have been made to still take on father's responsibilities (CS) if they have "acted as a father" for the children's lives. States are unwilling to add to the welfare rolls when a guy is already on the hook.
12. QUIT HELPING/ENABLING HER. She is like a bully, if you keep doing what she wants, she will never get better. In fact, she will get worse. It is like rewarding a child every time they have a tantrum.
13. If this is going to work, you guys are in for a LOT of work. On your own AND with a COUNSELOR for the issues you guys have. PAY HER BILLS FOR HER????? HELL NO
1. The court order is they
1. The court order is they each have custody of one child. I have not read it.
3. Neither of them asked me to help move her. She moved to the fourth floor of a building and I volunteered to help him because I knew he didn't want to do it and it was going to be a high conflict situation and I wanted to help get the stuff upstairs as quickly as possible. I stayed maybe 15 minutes. She thanked me and told me I didn't have to stay and help then they started arguing about something (maybe me who knows) and he asked me to leave and I left.
7. They each have custody of one child. He wanted to keep all them together but cannot have custody of the oldest because she is not biologcally his, so all the children live together with the mother and he pays her as if she has legal custody of both.
11. I still want to be sure of the paternity. I feel like it will make it easier to provide the money and walk away.
>>>>There are pregnant
>>>>There are pregnant teenagers, college tuition, weddings, grandkids, family vacations, etc. It never ends and you have to wrap your head around that.
I started thinking about this about 6 months ago. Their daughter is absolutely gorgeous and built like a mini-brickhouse and the mother seems to already be encouraging behavior I would not encourage in my daughter if she looked like this girl does. I am afraid that her ending up as a pregnant teenager might actually be a viable future. Thanks for reminding me.