Any words of wisdom?
Hi,
I am new to this site, and I'm not a step mother yet, but I do love a man who has a 29 year old daughter and she seems to have already cast me as an "evil stepmother."
I'm trying to balance setting my boundaries and still being available for this man who is so good to me.
I've been divorced almost 3 years.... he's been divorced since his daughter was a baby. We started seeing one another in October, went from hanging out to dating... typical I guess. We have lots of family and friend connections, our families have known one another for years... we are really comfortable together, and feel like we are a blessing to one another's lives. My children who live with me all the time (12 & 16) absolutely adore him, and all our extended family and friends are thrilled that we have found one another and think it's a great match. But, not his daughter.
I'm feeling like I should've seen the signs and gotten out before it went this far... but now that I'm to this point, I'm trying to figure out the best way.
Back in December, I suggested a couple of times that we could meet his daughter for supper, and she never would join us. At that time, I expressed concern, and he told me she didn't want him to tell BM about me until after Christmas, because she was planning a Christmas dinner for the three of them, and was afraid BM would cause a scene. I asked why BM would make a scene... after all she divorced him and they've been divorced 29 years... he said she is just really unpredictable. So, my feeling was, we haven't been dating all that long, daughter wanted to have her parents over for Christmas dinner at her place... no big deal. At that time, I told him, if we are still dating this time a year from now, it will not be appropriate for him to have a family dinner with the three of them... him and daughter is fine, but if x is there, someone who is in a long term relationship with him should be included as well.
So, after Christmas, he told ex wife he had been seeing someone. She had already heard. (We have lots of mutual acquaintances.) He said she didn't seem to be upset... but concerned about the impact on daughter.
So, last weekend in January, I went away for the weekend with my best girlfriend, and he had told me he was going to help BM paint the hallway in her house, something he had told her he would do before daughter moved out. I had no issue with that, as long as he was painting, doing what he was called over there to do, and not being manipulated by her to just hang out, and we had a talk about that, in which he told me if she wasn't ready to paint he would go home. Of course, it turned out, he went over, she didn't have any paint, they had to go to Lowe's, then they were out, so they might as well go out for lunch, then there wasn't enough time left to get anything done before daughter was having them over for supper, so they just hung out and watched a movie until supper. I let him know that I will not be in a committed relationship with a man who will spend that much time alone in intimate settings with another woman. Although they were divorced, they were functioning as a couple socially.... So, he realized he couldn't carry on in this way with his ex and have a relationship with me... and that hasn't been a problem.
However, that same weekend in January, I met the daughter for the first time, and I thought it was rather pleasant; but, he came to me a few days later with concerns from her.... that she didn't want me to try to be her mother, that she was afraid I would stop him from helping her financially (he has allowed her to keep her phone on his family plan and pays the entire bill, and he pays her auto insurance).... so I wrote her an email, very complimentary to her, and reassuring her that I would not push myself on her, that I cared for her dad and I plan to support and encourage her, but the depth of our relationship other than I'm her dad's girlfriend would be up to her, and that I will not tell her dad how to spend his money. I read it to him before I sent it, and he thought it was good and I should send it so I did. And she sent me back a scathing reply, called me names, accused me of rushing her dad into getting married. (He does believe he wants us to be married, but he has from the start been the one bringing up marriage... I thought I wanted to marry him, but I wasn't pushing for it.) So my response was polite and understanding, and I did not put myself on her level... but I told her father, and told him he needs to set her straight on some things.
So, about a month went by... near the end of Feb it was his birthday.... so daughter wanted to have a birthday dinner and go see a movie with her mom and dad for his birthday. He suggested just dad/ daughter and she flipped out. So, he told her that if she wants her mother there, he would invite me... and she told him that if I showed up she would just walk out. He did stand by his guns and invite me, but I had other plans already, and he felt it would be better if I didn't come... so I didn't. He went to his birthday dinner, and his daughter and her mother didn't speak to him. He used that opportunity to talk with BM about working together as parents to help her through this, as it is not healthy for her at age 29 to be stuck in this state. He said BM agreed with him.
The following week, his family had a big family event hosted by his cousin, and I was invited, not by him but by the family (we go back a long way)... and daughter refused to come because I was invited. He said it was her loss.
So, a month later, he's telling me that his daughter gets upset every time my name comes up, but that "she implied that she might be willing to open a door for you at some point." He said it in a way like I was supposed to think that's a good thing, but I was insulted. I don't care to wait around for her to throw me a scrap. I haven't done a thing wrong to this young woman, and she is acting as if I have mistreated her. That day, something snapped inside me, and I knew I was feeling angry and frustrated by something completely out of my control. and I don't like feeling angry and frustrated. So I told him I care for him, but I am not willing to be committed to him or make plans for a future with him until this problem with his daughter is solved.
He feels like I'm giving in to her "tantrum" by doing this, but I feel like I'm taking myself out of the line of fire, and setting a standard for how I will allow people to treat me.
Since I set that boundary, he is being more direct with her, and addressing her behavior. I don't care if she likes me or not... but I know as a grown woman who has a job she is capable of being civil to anyone, even those who are rude. So, she could attend a family function and be civil to someone who has done nothing wrong, except be the woman her father fell in love with after years of putting her first. I just know I am not willing to go forward and be subject to an adult child who will set up scenarios for her dad to have to choose.... it's too much stress, and I have a great life.... I'd rather stay single than deal with that for the rest of my life. My family has welcomed him... my 16 year old has introduced him to her closest friends, my son asks me, when is he coming over again.... I would like to at least be ignored rather than open hostility.
I am trying to understand.... why would an adult have a problem with their parent having a healthy relationship?
And now, I'm trying to figure out, what would it look like for this problem to be solved? How can I trust that his daughter won't continue to make herself an issue?
I think you are right. As
I think you are right. As much as I hate it, because he feels like it is punishing him for his daughter's attitude. But he has to lead his daughter to a different attitude, and help her be ready to see him move on before he drags an innocent party into it.
I just wanted to get some other opinions before I give up on it. To be sure I'm not over-reacting out of hurt or pride.
I feel a bit more cautious
I feel a bit more cautious about this. He has done a lot of things to improve the situation in a relatively short while. The striking thing about the situation is that it had become so incredibly entrenched for the three of them over so long a period. The great thing is you have a cv on him because you have such a lot of shared history and friends. But I think the key questions to look at are, was he single for all the time since he and BM ended? What was the quality of his relationships since then and can mutual friends give you any intelligence on these ie did he have a string of them, but they all got destroyed by SD/BM? Was he on and off in a relationship with BM after separating from her - is that the reason for the large delay in settling with another woman? Or was he really able to sustain an independent life which was fulfilled yet not committed to another woman? Whilst the last option is the least likely, equally it might be the one best able to support him committing to a proper relationship with you, because all these problem dependencies could have arisen by default simply because he was not seeking a new adult commitment to a partner yet and just became somewhat slobbish and unquestioning about old family ties. This would be unusual, but then would not block him attempting to change his ways now he has met the love of his life.
I think you are doing exactly the right thing -- keeping your options open, not committing fully, waiting to see, yet not rejecting him out of hand quite yet. You need to see what will happen, for example, if you proceed not to have anything to do with the SD at all. I'd recommend that because she is behaving abnormally towards you and unacceptably, so the reaction would be proportionate, it would not be extreme but merely quietly sensible. If either she or he cannot cope with this, then you have your answer. If she can, then you can proceed to see what agreements can be reached over time with him to keep things that way.
I just think the mature description you have given of what a good match it is, the shared history etc, would be a pity to waste by running off just yet -- so long as you can keep your eyes open.
Fluffy, Thanks for the food
Fluffy,
Thanks for the food for thought...
He waited several years after the divorce to even date, and he had a couple of relationships, but not a string. He had very strong feelings for one woman who was too fresh out a divorce and not ready to commit. However, she lived a good distance away, and the daughter never had to meet her or deal with her in any way.
Mutual friends have told me that he pretty much devoted himself to his daughter and his friends, and did everything he could for her and her mom, that he did date. He and I have talked about how it came to be this way, and he realizes that he allowed it to be that way, with good intentions of being there for her, but he has overcompensated... trying to not let her suffer because of the divorce, and hasn't pulled back the way parents should....
His own description is that he had come to the conclusion that he wasn't going to find a life partner, and so he was living life, and he had been complacent about spending time with his daughter and ex over the past 6 years or so.... basically, whenever the daughter asked him to do something, he would do it, and she included her mother a lot, and he just went with it. I think that maybe his ex has been "putting out feelers" to see if they could reconcile (she had divorced him, lived a lifestyle very different from what she had presented when they married, and about 6-7 years ago "came back to the Lord", or got religious again.... so maybe is trying to get back with him out of guilt)... but in his mind, he was just being there for his daughter... They have not dated or slept together or anything like that.... friends and family have told me that. His older brother has said, it's just time for daughter to grow up. I just have to see is he able to turn the pattern around now.....
It kind of sounds like there
It kind of sounds like there was more going on with him and BM before you came into the picture, and if you weren't in the picture it would STILL be going on. I don't know...our BM3's parents have been divorced since she was 13, but they still spend time together, take vacations together, etc. It's wierd. And of course neither of them have ever moved on.
His daughter's resentment of you likely stems from the fact that until you came along she had an intact family every time it was important to her. That crap is 100% her dad's fault for perpetuating that nonsense.
You are right about "His
You are right about "His daughter's resentment of you likely stems from the fact that until you came along she had an intact family every time it was important to her. That crap is 100% her dad's fault for perpetuating that nonsense."
He has realized he created the situation.... it's difficult to know how to deal with it now.
Because you are a threat to
Because you are a threat to her role in his life. He enables her behavior by paying her bills at this age and by not setting up boundaries years ago with BM. This is not her fault although she is old enough to be responsible for her behavior. But, really you need to confront him on this. He needs to handle it much harsher than he is or this will just get worse if you do marry him.
Thanks! And amazingly, since
Thanks! And amazingly, since I put down my boundary and said I will not commit or plan for a future with him until this situation is solved, he has started dealing with it directly, rather than "just giving it time".... which was his approach before.
I'm just wondering what do I need to look for to know that it can be healthy?
What is needed is for SO to
What is needed is for SO to tell SD - in your presence - that your marriage will be his prime focus, and she must respect you as his wife. You do not need her approval to marry her Father. It is not necessary for you and SD to have a relationship. She sounds like a nacissistic twit anyway. It will be a daunting task for your FDH to get SD to understand that life as she has known it for 20 years is going to change drastically but he must firmly communicate this. He is responsible for creating the situation where SD thinks she is a princess and is entitled to dictate how he should live his life, and he will have to take a major role in dethroning her. It appears he is making an effort. Good for you for setting clear boundaries BEFORE committing. I hope all turns out well for you.
Oh yea, Forgot to mention,
Oh yea,
Forgot to mention, the daughter always takes a week off of work from her normal job to work at a certain golf tournament because it pays so well...
And in January, before all the ugliness, I arranged her to house-sit for a friend of mine who lives 15 minutes away from the course, so she wouldn't have to get a hotel or drive an hour each way....
So, he asked me if he could give his daughter my address so that she could send me a thank you note. I told him absolutely not, I do not give my home address to people who express contempt for me, and that if she insists on writing a thank you note to follow the rules of etiquette, she can mail it to my church, or my work. And I told him that a thank you note seems very shallow from a person who openly expresses contempt and refuses to attend the same function as me.
You're right. No, BM has
You're right. No, BM has never married. They were married in college, and after they graduated, they struggled and he took a higher paying job in a different town and was in process of trying to move them..... and she refused to move, then he found out she was staying at a woman's house much of the time, and she was trying to hide a pregnancy from him.
So, she went through several different long term "live in" relationships through the years with men and women... but both of them were always there for the daughter for "family" time... birthdays, etc.
So, whenever daughter wanted something, both of them were there, and daughter just moved out of mom's home a year ago....yes she lived with her mom until age 28. Daughter also has never had a relationship. And because daughter still lived with Mom, Dad would go over and make household repairs and stuff when needed....
To me, it's like they divorced, but still have a family... she gets all the benefits of a husband... financial help, help around the house, someone to go to the movies.... without the parts she doesn't like.... sex, intimacy, deep conversations, irritating daily habits....
He realizes how dysfunctional it it.... it remains to be seen if he can deal with it, and if he can stand his ground even when his daughter pitches a fit.
I never knew I would play
I never knew I would play devil's advocate in this sort of debate, but I still say he sounds able to make your grade. You have been tougher with him already, at a stage where that can work, than I ever was at the start of my relationship with DH, for example the way you dealt with the thank you note issue was perfection. And he would appear, from your post, to have fully supported you in that. Now my question is, is he being so helpful to you because he is in general too accommodating and passive, which was the problem with the previous BM and SD, or is he actually a pretty responsive guy who simply fell into a pattern in the past?
If a guy has not found the right woman with whom to settle down and there is no positive evidence of BM/SD having made any other potential new wife's life hell in the past years, and if there has been no sexual connection between BM and him, I wouldn't say this is so bad as the sorts of things we see on this forum in most established step lives. I know a lot of us have SDs who won't grow up and BMs who are toxic manipulators etc, and wimpy DHs who accommodate, but yours might have been a guy who had no reason NOT to be supportive to the mother of his child and very kind to his D even though she was an adult. It's a free world and he could just be incredibly generous. I don't think that's necessarily dysfunctional. YOu have to suck it and see some more, I think. YOur instincts appear to be so spot on that you will not allow abuse of yourself to begin, never mind continue. So surely that's your safety valve.
Thanks Fluffy. I am giving
Thanks Fluffy. I am giving him more time. I don't want to bash him. I am seeking help before committing to marriage... hopefully to address these things before. You are very helpful!
My son came up to me out of the blue and said, I don't understand (SO daughter) and I don't like what she's doing, but I hope you and SO don't break up.
SO is being very supportive of my boundaries and the way I have handled it all. So, I am giving it time.
If you get out now, you'll
If you get out now, you'll save yourself the pain I am feeling at the moment as my situation falls apart. I should have known. I just should have known. All the warning signs were there but I thought love and hard work would conquer all.