Response to Estrangements
To those whose stepchildren are estranged, how did your SO respond? Is he or she fine with it? Assumes eventually the skid(s) will grow up? Or beg them to have a relationship?
My DH figured that eventually once this kids (then all in their late teens, early 20) grew up more they would come around and the estrangements would end. Then months turned into years and he started hearing through family members about weddings and grandkids he had never met and he panicked since his kids were happy to cut him out of their lives completely.
What I don't think people realize is how judgmental other people are when your adult children are estranged. Especially when the kids are successful and have normal lives. The assumption is that the parent must have done something horrible for their child to never talk to them again.
The skids wouldn't talk to their dad about why they no longer wanted anything to do with him, but they would vent to any relative or friend about all the problems. So random cousins of my DH had heard through the grapevine about how horrible of a father he was according to his kids and why he deserved to be cut out of their lives.
My DH eventually cracked due to wanting to help with several family crisis (his former MIL's death and then his grandchild being born premature and with birth defects) but his kids will only have a relationship with him on their terms. Because they are perfectly willing to never speak to him again and he's the one that came crawling back and that he knows they have a long list of reasons they justify the estrangement with - he has no ability to say to them that he won't deal with them unless certain conditions are met. They hold all the power since he's the only desperate to have a relationship with them.
I think DH is probably more
I think DH is probably more OK with it then I am. He chalks it up to her mother's influence and genes. I think he has written her off completely. I have a harder time with it. I raised that girl and I raised her to be better then this. I did things for her that her mother refused and BM could have cared less about what SD needed. I was the one that stepped up and yet somehow I am the evil one; BM the saint.
I hope she does grow out of it but I'm thinking things would still be strained. She refused to come to her grandparents funeral services. Note she still managed to collect the car she was left. These things are hard to forgive and forget.
I can give you views on both
I can give you views on both sides. I am a SD n I am a FSM ~ it's all convoluted in both examples.
My mother passed away n before she died she gave me the greatest gift she could have given me. I am the baby of the family. My mother was married young had my sister then met my Dad and married and had my brother n I. My father adopted my sister ~ since her BD was a giant horses ass. I was Daddy's little girl n my brother n my mom had an incredible relationship.
My mom told me on the drive home from her oncologists ~ when your father finds someone I want you to respect them. Without blinking n eye ~ she thought beyond her death n what life would b like without her. She knew I wouldn't adapted to well ~ to being pushed in the corner. I took that gift n did exactly what mom wanted ! But I think she really should have talked yo my brother. My thought process was ~ she will never be my mother ~ ever. I had one mom ~ cause you only get one. She would be my fathers wife ~ please don't think this is cold. She wasn't going to raise me cause I was already raised by my parents. She would take care of my father ~ grow old with him. She would be his companion ~ he wasn't dead n he deserved the right to be happy till his dying day. If she hurt him ~ be sure I would voice my opinion. The dynamic in my childhood house had taken on a different life ~ from visual changes to difference smells and the lack of my mothers presence. But.... The memories would stay for however long I allowed them. She was a great grandmother to my kids. That is what she was to me ..... My kids grandmother. My brother was completely different ~ his loyalty remained with my mother.
As for me as a FSM ~ what changed was my DF ~ we sort of morphed together. Taking my views n his views n came up with an "us". Veruca (SD) ~ didn't have Daddy to hide by anymore. We were holding her accountable for everything n anything as with my 4 kids as well. The honeymoon stage of our Brady brunch family was wonderful. Until they began to push the envelop on everything. Our daughter were hanging out together n so getting into trouble together. And every incident was dealt w accordingly. Until SD bring grounded on BM time ~ n BM would fail on disciplining or holding her to her punishment on her time. Sd began to resent me for being grounded so often ~ my view how about you don't do f'd up shit n you have no problem. DF wanted me to try again w SD ( this would b 7th time) ~ I told him NO I will not sacrfice my children for SD's jackass bf. you see my hubby passed away n my home is the only home my kids have ~ they don't have weekends at their fathers.
Other told me ~ that SD is young n immature and that the estrangement w her father will end when she grows up. Hmm grows up ~ she's 20 but I don't see things ever changing. Her narcassistic behavior that she inherited from mommy dearest will never be unpoisoned. I agree with your comment about the changing of power. It's like the skids are spiders n they have captured DF in their web. I think other people hold on to "hope" that things will shift. I seriously doubt they will ~ I question when the resentment from your DH n my DF will set in and I will ultimately be the reason he says he lost do much time w his daughter. His daughter will never change I have watched her for 5 years shift the blame on him for her actions.
Does the prosecution rest its
Does the prosecution rest its case now? Have forensic psychologists dug up enough dirt?
HRNYC, you sound positively gleeful. What an unbecoming emotion....
I don't know what hrnyc said
I don't know what hrnyc said that is incorrect or wrong. Can you understand why these sks have issues? Their mom was I'll when they were kids, she's dead, and now dad is playing dad to kids they're not even related to.
My mother fought cancer for 2
My mother fought cancer for 2 1/2 years ~ when my mom was diagnosed she didn't want to know her prognosis. She wanted to fight out all her energy in fighting her fight. She had two kids still not married off ~ I was 24 living 8 hours away my brother living at home.
My mom was a bus driver , a woman you all would have loved just a genuine caring funny woman.
My father was a retired cop now working 1 hour away Mon through Friday. He worked so my mom could fight her fight full time. He held the benefits. My father wasn't home for dr appt but we the children aunts n friends took her to every dr appt. I watched my father knowing that my mom had 3 to 6 months to live ~ it broke him. How as a man who was the fixer do you compete against cancer. Everything else my father could/would fix. But this poison was rapidly taking my mom ~ her mind. One time she wanted pizza so badly ~ first time with an appetite my dad ran out of the house to get whatever she wanted ~ came home with the pizza n my mom freaked ~ told my dad that there were snakes on the pizza. How ?? How do you deal with losing your girl ~ the love of your life ~ the mother of your children to a disease that you can't kill !! He was breaking ~ laying next to his wife in bed and watch her deteriorate. Watch her become weak , frail, and still try to fight. Her spirit was still there but her voice was so quiet.
None of you know what an emotional roller coaster that is unless you go through it. I was extremely sad for my father ~ watching his love of his life die !! Men are fixers n this is something they can't fix. I don't claim to know all his emotions ~ I just refuse to dismiss that he was effected day by day. To watch him cry ~ to be strong n helpless.
This father did the only thing he knew to do ~ live ... Live his life. Some people don't understand ~ I've been the wife losing my husband at 42. I was the daughter who lost her mom at 24. I know those feelings.....
Step ~ My husband had a
Step ~
My husband had a massive heart attack in his sleep and my middle daughter found him n I had my oldest daughter helping me with telling me what 911 was instructing me to do to revive my husband. My oldest was 14 n youngest was 4. I can only imagine what goes through my kids minds ~ we speak of my hubby on the daily. He is always talked about ~ he was a good father but not such a great husband. But I would never ruin their imagine of their father.
The realize of death is horrible. I don't know what's worse a tragedy sudden like my hubby or the pain staking watching them deteriorate before your eyes. Either is horrible ~ grieving doesn't have an expiration date. My father dated soon after mom passed but who am I to claim I know his grief process he watched my mom died in front of his eyes. He lost her long before she left this world. No one knows grief ~ everyone grieves different. Please remember that ~ it's a roller coaster some days you are 3 steps forward n then you get a gigantic 10 steps backward. I like to say ~ I am still grieving ~ I m just a little better at coping without.
"Does your DH have no idea
"Does your DH have no idea why his kids think he was a bad father?"
His sons have a lot of problems with what he did while their mom was ill or more specifically what he didn't do. He kept working which required a lot of his time. He had to keep health insurance and pay the bills but his sons only remember what he didn't attend and that there were times that he didn't take off work to attend doctors visits with his late wife. His oldest son had to switch at the last minute from attending a college on the east coast to a local community college because he wanted to be home to help his mom because he didn't feel his dad could be counted on.
They're also upset that when he got remarried, everything changed and he changed jobs and was coaching my son's baseball team, taking my daughter to dance class and doing all the things he didn't have time to do for his kids. By that time his boys were both on the east coast in college and barely ever called. SD was jealous over all the attention my kids were getting but never wanted to even talk to her dad when she lived at home.
All of his kids hold it against him that he dares do anything with my stepkids that he didn't do with his own kids. They are so jealous yet they have no real idea what was going on in our home after SD left for college. They have this imaginary view of their dad being the ultimate Disneyland stepdad and a distorted view of their dad doing nothing for them while they were growing up except working.
They see it as their father was happy that their mother died because he got to move on to such a better life. Honestly, there is some truth to that. Dealing with his late wife's illness took a huge toll on him and he felt a tremendous weight was lifted when she finally passed away and he could move on to the family life he wished he had had before.
DH wished he could have coached his sons' baseball teams but neither of his boys liked baseball and he didn't have the time when they were little. Rather than his sons being happy that he could do something he enjoys with his stepson they have to be all bitter about it.
Your SKs aren't causing
Your SKs aren't causing problems for you. Your husband spent 5 years focusing on just you and your kids. Your SKs accepted that not including you meant they would lose their dad. They didn't force him to make a choice between him and them.
Your husband decided he wasn't happy with the way things were. He's making the choice to leave you out of that part of his life. Your issue should be with him not the SKs.
His kids know that they are
His kids know that they are causing problems in his marriage by excluding me and by constantly putting him in a situation where he has to choice either me or them.
When this granddaughter was born premature and with serious medical problems and there was a chance she wouldn't survive and DH wanted to go and help - did his son tell him sure he could come and Christag could come too? No, even then they made it contingent on me not being there. If he wanted to see him granddaughter and help his son, he needed to do something that his son knew would absolutely piss me off and cause problems in his marriage.
If they weren't bitter and were over everything, then they wouldn't play these passive aggressive games and enjoy manipulating their father behind my bad. His younger son comes out here for business occasionally and instead of coming to the house like a normal, mature, responsible adult, he arranges to met his dad places - they go golfing, or baseball games or out to dinner. I'm not even told much less invited.
I WISH my skids were
I WISH my skids were estranged. Just the other night, 25 year old SS calls DH, drunk and crying because his new wife doesn't want to have kids yet! WTF? I would kiss the sky if those overgrown brats estranged themselves.
Christag, my heart goes out
Christag, my heart goes out to you, and looking into the future, i am wondering if i am going to be in your shoes sooner or later. I think it is BS about having no ability to say anything to one's adult kids but let's not go down that road now.
My skids PAS'd out of our lives about 2 years ago, if not more, it was gradual, glacial at first. BM must have thought it was the greatest idea at the time to tell all 3 that they should let DH know that the only way they would see him was at an impartial therapist's office. She counted on him begging them to do therapy at any time, at any cost - all to give the skids a forum in which to do what mommy has always done so well: rake him over the coals infront of an audience. He did not take the bait. Once the dust of that sting has settled, he pretty much told them to fuck off - with my and his sister's blessing. BM was hoping to continue torturing him by proxy, having turned all three (19 to 25) into her weapons. It did not work. By finalizing the alienation she lost all leverage.
King-Lear-like, DH was shaken by the betrayal of his troika who ALL toed the line. He seems to be dealing with it better though and when they cut off his sister, their aunt, who dared to speak up for him, the balance tipped in our favor. We are a united front for now ( him, me and SIL). The total lack of morals on BM's and skids' side became painfully obvious, and their narcisisstic hysteria reached its peak and died off earlier this year.
What the future holds is anyone's guess. I hope the skids never procreate! For one, some other hapless fellows might then escape the same fate as befell DH. Alienation gene is alive and kicking in the NPD/BPD SDs.
I am not familiar with the
I am not familiar with the dynamics of the OP and her husband or skids so I will just answer the questions:
"To those whose stepchildren are estranged, how did your SO respond?" At first I'm sure he was not happy about SD being banned from our home, but for whatever reason it was his decision to stay in the marriage. It was SD's decision to cut him out of her life.
"Is he or she fine with it?" After so many years of rejection it appears he quit trying.
"Assumes eventually the skid(s) will grow up?" SD will never grow up. She is still emotionally stuck as a teenager when her parents divorced.
"Or beg them to have a relationship?" They are both free to have a relationship - just not in my home. But DH seems to have given up. SD will have to make the next move.
When situations are that the
When situations are that the kids are assholes and driving the estrangement and the parents are not causal to the problem taking an offensive position is the way to go.
Keep their idiocy front and center in front of them.
Lots of vacations pics with captions like "So sorry you wouldn't join us!" or "I think my grandkids would love this. Maybe next time."
Calling to say “I sent you/your bride/my grandkids a gift but did not get a confirmation that you/she/they got it. Did it arrive?”
It is not necessary to mention exactly what the toxic spawn have done ot cause the estrangement but it is important to give them repeated opportunities to re-engage but also not letting them forget that they are the ones choosing to stay separate.
IMHO of course.
My skids responded to this
My skids responded to this sort of thing by turning it against their father by using it as example of how he does all these special things with his stepkids that he never did with them. Then did the same thing to him - post all the pictures of the events he wasn't invited to and the grandkids he never met online. It was like they wanted to rub his face in what he wasn't invited to.
My DH shared pictures online of things he was doing with his stepkids because his kids were all on the opposite side of the country and he wanted to somehow include them. His kids then turned everything around and whined and complained about how when they were kids their dad never did whatever with them. But never did they complain to their dad's face or online. It was always complaining about it to relatives then we get confronted about how angry his kids are when visiting other relatives especially my SIL.
If it's any consolation,
If it's any consolation, adult child estrangement is not unique to stepfamilies. It's becoming somewhat epidemic in society at large. Here's an excerpt from one of many articles on the topic you can find by searching "adult child estrangement":
"Joshua Coleman, is co-chair of the Council on Contemporary Families who runs a webinar for parents who want to improve relations with their adult children. He sees so much of this problem that he calls parent/adult child estrangement a silent epidemic. “Nobody wants to talk about this,” he says.
And yet people are more than willing to share their stories online. Coleman’s web forums are teeming with questions from parents seeking answers about how to heal. The Experience Project hosts a support group for parents of disaffected children. The stories are heart-wrenching — no matter how old the children, the parents want them back in their lives."
I think the biggest challenge is if my SO's son decides to initiate contact and a relationship again, I know my SO will welcome it. I certainly would support him in reestablishing his relationship, and would never stand in the way, say anything or cause a barrier. But I can tell you this much: I will never, ever, forget how much damage and harm his son's actions have caused my SO over these years. I have been the one to watch how heartbreaking and painful this is.
God, and his own father, may forgive SS. But I never will.
My SS30 is basically
My SS30 is basically estranged. DH told him he absolutely could not live here, since then he moved back in with mommy and has been badmouthing DH and I and telling them that he isn't living here because we make him feel uncomfortable.
DH and he saw each other about a month ago and ss30 just railed him the whole time. DH came home and for the first time said, "ss30 is not a very nice person." But DH continues to reward ss30 by paying his bills. DH has a grand hope that ss30 will "grow up," stop mooching, stick to a job and start living. I asked DH not to talk about ss30 to me anymore because I can't handle the denial and enabling. DH agreed and we've only talked about ss once in the month, I listened for about 2 minutes then changed the subject.
DH has just been a wallet to ss30. Sad that he can't see his father for the great man he really is.