Stepdad and at a loss
This is going to be long, so apologies in advance. My wife and I got married about 2 1/2 years ago, and have been together almost 4 years. We've known each other since we were kids. She has two sons, both adults. I have two sons, one 12 and one 15. We have a great marriage and relationship, except for one aspect - her youngest son. This has been a recurring issue, and I don't know what to do about it anymore.
When my wife and I got together, she was a single mom. She had been a single mom for a number of years prior. Her youngest son was 15. This boy had become accustomed to using rage and volume to get what he wanted from his mother. He would corner her and scream at her that she is a horrible person and a horrible mother, and just basically be an animal until he got his way. When I came into the picture, I think he still had plans of doing that with her. Needless to say, that behavior by him ended in a hurry. He has only lived with us for about a year in total. Whenever he would have to be accountable for something, he would decide to move back to where his dad lives. He's moved out three times. He won't be moving back. I'll die on that hill if I have to. I can't do that anymore.
In the short time he has lived with us, he has flown into an extreme rage because he was asked to mow the grass. My wife ended up talking to a 911 operator because he was screaming and punching/kicking holes in the walls because he wasn't getting his way. I came home for lunch to a driveway full of cop cars, the son sitting on the porch in handcuffs, and my wife inside sobbing. He was taken away for an involuntary 72 hour hold at a mental hospital. He was about 16. I've had to get my boys out of the house because he would fly into rages and start screaming at his mom about how much he F'ing hates her. My oldest boy had open heart surgery 2 years ago. When my wife and I returned home, her son had completely trashed the house. I had to snake tub and sink drains before we could even take a shower, it was so bad. I should mention that my sons' mom and I have 50/50 custody of our two sons.
The last time her son moved out was January of last year. He went to live with his dad. He and his dad have never had a relationship, and things got explosive there quick. The son tried repeatedly to work a backdoor deal with my wife so that he could move back with us. I had had enough, and was willing to end the marriage if it meant living with him again. I just couldn't take any more. Her son ended up in a boarding home until he was 18.
Since then, he has had a psychiatric evaluation, and was determined to be severely disturbed. He now gets Social Security benefits because of it. within a month of getting these funds, he headed to Colorado so that he could stay perpetually stoned. That is where he is now. He hasn't said a word to me since he moved out in January of 2016. He's had me blocked on Facebook for about 4 years. I don't have a relationship with him at all, and frankly don't know if I want one. Of course, this occasionally puts my wife and I at odds.
My wife has dropped a few hints the last couple of weeks that she would like her son to visit us toward the end of this year. I am very uncomfortable with this idea. My wife assures me he has changed, but I just don't see any evidence of that. He's dropped out of high school, won't work, and spends his disability money on pot. He still bounces from house to house because his rage burns every bridge he forms. He hates me and has made that abundantly clear. I don't want to be around him, and don't want my younger kids to be around him, either, especially now that he is perpetually smoking weed. I told my wife that I am not comfortable with him being in the house because I have no expectation that things are really different now. If fact, I expect them to be worse. He is almost 19, and so will be even more hostile as an adult than he was as a teenager. Essentially, I was told that her son comes here or I will be spending Thanksgiving alone this year. I told her I would rather do that than spend the holiday with someone that hates me and that I don't feel safe having my boys around.
I don't know where to go from here. I feel like I have to stick to this boundary. Her son was getting to be dangerous when he lived with us, and now he is doing drugs. I just can't, as a father with younger sons, sign on for him coming back in the house until he starts getting his act together. He may never get his act together, though. I'm at a loss of where to go from here. I have pretty much disengaged from her son, but still get pulled into arguments about him when it involves him coming back into the house.
My wife does go to visit her
My wife does go to visit her son, 3 - 5 times each year. He lives a couple of states away. I am ok with her going to visit him. I think her issue is that she really wants something to develop between her son and me. I just don't think that is possible until he starts doing something to turn his life around. I can't do that for him. She can't either. I think she really wants to have a get-together where all 4 boys are together with us. That idea makes me so uneasy because of the way her son is now. I worry he would arrive and then I'd get a surprise that he is moving in. Or he'd get abusive and violent while he's here. Or he'd start getting high in the house, and then explode when he's told to take it somewhere else. I can't go down any of those roads with him.
I get along great with her oldest son. He and I keep in touch quite a bit, and send little things to each other now and then. He's a great guy, and I'm really fond of him. The relationship between him and the younger brother is strained. I don't think they interact very much.
Mathfed, I am in a similar
Mathfed, I am in a similar spot to you. I get along with one of my DH's DD's but not the other. He is aware of the stuff she has done and does not blame me for not wanting to be in her life. I do think he has hope in the back of his mind that we will all hold hands and be a happy family. I personally don't see it happening.
I've told my DH that I have the right to not have toxic people in my life. If I am going to reintroduce OSD into my life, I need strong evidence over time in why OSD is no longer toxic. My spouse just feeling that OSD has changed is not going to cut it (he did tell me once he "had a hunch" she would treat me with respect....that was not a good day....). Additionally, if I ever were to re-engage with OSD, the first meeting would not be in my home, my sanctuary.
I am not tolerating poor behavior from someone just because it's my spouse's child, and neither should you.
I've told my DH that I support his relationship with his DD but I do not wish to be involved.
Though I do not like your
Though I do not like your DW's ultimatum of her toxic spawn visiting your home or you being alone for TG this year.... I do agree that the toxic spawn should not be allowed in your home. If your DW insists on visiting her toxic spawn she needs to visit him in CO rather than him visiting your home. Since DW is your bride you should go with her. If anyone spoke to my wife as this POS waste of skin has spoken to your wife they would be picking their teeth up off of the ground at best and would be viewing daisies from the root side at worst. I would not let my wife go unaccompanied to such a risky visit as this kid represents. I would go with her for sure and the first thing out of my mouth when I saw that POS kid would be to give him clarity that if he spoke to my wife in any way but with respect he would get his ass beat.
It should be an eye opener for DW to experience her stoned toxic spawn in his chosen environment of being evicted from place to place.
The best thing you and she can do for this toxic POS is to let him crash and burn. Only then... will he have any chance of gaining clarity and pulling his head out of his stoned ass.
IMHO of course.
As for the ultimatum.... I would confront that immediately and jerk a knot in your bride's tail for that crap. Marriage should not include ultimatums and her lack of respect for you and for the marriage in issuing the ultimatum would have her poised for eviction to join her toxic spawn in stoner land if I were you. She needs absolute clarity on this IMHO.
Good luck.
I address issues in a direct
I address issues in a direct and effective manner. And you forgot "shallow" at the front of the gene pool line.
Keep in mind that the DW in this OPs story was the one who gave the ultimatum. She set the tone for the discussion. I do not see a problem with forbidding a toxic, profane, abusive, violent, vandal from entering the family home.
Why would you think anything otherwise would be acceptable?
You have been more than
You have been more than patient with this kid. Parents just don't see the fault in their disrespectful kids.
Definitely meet this guy on neutral grounds for a TG dinner; it don't have to be on TG, maybe the weekend before; you can still have TG at home. Maybe you want to have your young sons stay at a friends and you and DW make this trip.
Tell you DW this will be a new beginning and ask her to relent to seeing how this goes. Don't make any promises about the future and don't discuss the past. Don't make threats; let the ball be in your DW's court. Just take it one event at the time, and keep it away from your young sons. If he is rude and disrespectful, it just proves your boundaries are not out of line. Stick to your boundaries, don't go back to square one.
Good Luck
Thanks. That aligns very
Thanks. That aligns very will with what I told my wife yesterday. I told her that any meeting between him and I needs to be on neutral ground, not me under the same roof with him for a week or more where I'm constantly on edge about what he's going to do next. I don't think I could handle that.
I love my wife very much, and knowing how much this hurts her is hard for me to deal with. I can't sacrifice myself or my kids to her son, though, or go back to living in a war zone.
I have no doubt about the
I have no doubt about the love you have for your wife and kids. However I am questioning the love she has for you and your kids. What person in their right mind would subject another persons family and her husband to a situation which could possibly cost them their lives? This boy has serious documented issues yet she wants to bring him into your house???
Let her go and visit her crazy ass son by herself, and if she wants to continue to risk her life then so be it no one else should be subjected to his unwillingness to get the proper help that he needs and possibly become a casualty. No he can't come to the house until he shows proof that he is medicated.
^^^THIS!^^^ There is no
^^^THIS!^^^ There is no reason to place anyone in danger. Your SS may be mentally ill but he still knows he should be taking his meds. He's chosen not to and he should be dealing with the consequences. One of those consequences is that people are fearful and do not want to be around him nor do they want him around their loved ones.
Do you and she own the home together? This might have some bearing on it.
I agree with another poster who suggested that your DW get counseling for herself - but it might be a good thing for you too so you can be validated and have more confidence about sticking to your boundaries. Threats in a marriage are like spears. You can pull them out but they leave a lasting scar. Your DW can visit her son whenever she wants. When she threatens about Thanksgiving again, do not address it as a threat. Tell her to have a good time. When she brings up letting SS visit your home, do not fight about it, say "We've already discussed this issue." My SD is nowhere near what your SS is but it is my right to feel safe and happy in my home. If DH wants to see her he can - just not here.
Another thing, what about adult care facilities where they have more experience with people who have mental problems? I worked with some special ed kids who were placed in one of these homes after they graduated from High School.
I have a totally worthless SS
I have a totally worthless SS who is now 32. He's had years of alcohol, drug and rage issues. I know that he spent the last 3 1/2 years of his minority in juvie. That means he did something BAD. I was not around then.
My DH so wanted me to be able to accept his son. I truly tried. I gave him a 2nd chance when he seemed to have cleaned up his act a couple of years ago. Big mistake.
My advice to you is to literally NEVER have anything to do with this SS again. NEVER. He is not capable of changing. You need to accept that. This isn't about bad choices. This is someone with an extreme personality disorder that is not fixable. He's getting disability because he has something permanently wrong with him.
But unlike your wife my DH has accepted my decision. Somehow you need to impress on your wife that this is non-negotiable. Not now. Not ever. Do not keep discussing this with her and giving your justifications.
When her son kicked and
When her son kicked and punched holes in the walls, he would have went to juvie if my wife had pressed charges. I was there when the police asked her if she wanted to press charges. She didn't, so he went for a 72 hour involuntary psych hold instead.
I understand that something is permanently wrong with him. My wife doesn't understand, or at least doesn't accept that, though. From what I have heard, his dad is the same way. My wife keeps feeding me the line that everyone can change, and everyone deserves a second chance. I'm at the 4th or 5th second chance with her son, and my benefit of the doubt has run out. Right now, I really don't want to have a relationship with him. Frankly, after everything he's done, I don't like him and don't like being around him.
How did you get you DH to accept your decision to have no more to do with his son? Did you fight a lot over it? I think saying such a thing would crush my wife, but I don't know what else to do. I've told her I need to see actual progress from him before I'm willing to put myself out there with him again. Being told by her he is making progress isn't good enough. She tends to cover for him, or leave out a lot of details of how he is really doing. I don't think she knows that I know he is staying stoned almost all the time. She hasn't told me, either.
When my SS got out of juvie
When my SS got out of juvie he lived with DH for a few years. DH eventually had to have him evicted with a police order for being violent with him. SS has had horrible rage issues forever.
They reconnected after DH and I met each other, but DH always made it clear that SS would NEVER live with us. DH did ask if I could accept him in our life. I had him over for dinner. We even took him on a couple of trips. But some of the WORST fights DH and I had were over SS. In fact the only fights we ever had were over SS.
At that point I stopped having anything to do with SS. SS was often homeless, sometimes in jail (for beating up women/the elderly), seldom had a job, etc. Abusing alcohol and pot. DH and I had nothing to fight over since I never saw SS.
After 2-3 years he met a woman with a job, home, and car. She took him in. They had a baby. He's held a job for over a year. So I gave him another chance, met the GF and baby.
We went on vacation out of state for two weeks earlier this year. While we were gone SS and the GF took over our home (it's lovely on a lake and park), ransacked our belongings, ate our food, and emptied about 6 litres of hard liquor. I was LIVID. I think if they had been near them I would have ripped their heads off.
I told DH to keep them away from me, or I would not be responsible for my actions. And he has. I heard a phone call where SS was asking if DH was going to be home. I nipped that immediately and reaffirmed that SS and the GF were not to ever come on my property.
I told DH that he could go see them and spend any time with them that he wanted, but they were never to set foot here ever again. That this is permanent. Not something that will pass.
I actually feel like I got a permanent pass after their horrid actions. I am now 70. I've always been a pragmatic person. I just erase people who detract from my life. I adore my DH. We are so happy. But I would leave him if he told me SS had to be in my life.
Mathfed, hold your boundary.
Mathfed, hold your boundary. Nothing good will come from him visiting your state, much less your home.
Since ss moved to Colorado for his weed life, I take it you live in a state where recreational marijuana is not legal.
I think an excellent way to mitigate this disaster with your wife is to remind her that if ss comes to your state, he is more than likely to get in trouble with the law because he will not be able to do without his weed. Of course, under no circumstances is weed allowed in your house anyway.
But I think the spectre of him getting a real criminal record should dampen your wife's enthusiasm for this visit.
The sad fact is no one has yet found a way to effectively hep this young man and by that I mean the entire medical community. No matter how much you love your wife, you are not smarter than the entire medical community. You absolutely cannot "fix" him. He is living life the way he wants to.
Which is also your right so you keep this boundary. Do not allow your kids around him. Tell her to have a great TG and you make your own plans.
BTW, my SD is a rotten person but not this bad. My dh promised me when she turned 18, which will happen in days now, he would support me treating her as an adult meaning I no longer have to defer to her status as his little girl. I will treat her like any other adult. And that means she is no longer allowed in my home because she is cruel to me, physically filthy, and so many other things.
So you can do it, too. It's man to man now, and you would not tolerate this from another man. So wife must accept that this is who her kid is and you cannot change that for her. I like the idea of her getting counseling to better cope with the reality of who her adult son is.
I have a brother like this
I have a brother like this too, 40 now. In and out of jail, prison, and diagnosed with schziphrenia, likely caused by all the drugs. I love him but can't have a relationship with him in order to protect my home and family. He doesn't have my phone # or address because I'm afraid he'll just show up. My mother used to try to push things, encourage me to write him in jail, hint that he should visit me when he got out. Nope, can't invite that level of crazy into my life. He's family but I'll just have to love him from a distance until the kids are grown and out of the house. Even then I'll have to be careful about my boundaries.
I think you are right to
I think you are right to stand your ground and I second the suggestion that your wife get counselling, especially if she can find one she trusts who is experienced in dealing with mental illness. Her son is sick. His illness can likely be managed - if the right meds are found and he takes them. He cannot be cured or "get better" on his own. He is self-medicating with weed which he may think helps him deal with his inner demons. Your wife needs help accepting his illness and negotiating her feelings. I believe counselling could help her with that.
She is not wrong for loving her son, wanting to spend time with him and wanting him to be well. You are not wrong for having safe and sensible boundaries for yourself, your kids and your home.
Would you be open to meeting with him outside of your home for brief periods? He has broken your trust and it will take lots of time and baby steps in order to regain it, if that is even possible.
I wish you and your wife all the best.
mathfed welcome to st.
mathfed welcome to st. remarriage is particularly bad when the skids are of the same gender as the spouse. i am sure you can read the psychodynamic of this on the web.
your ss has serious issues that you and your wife cannot fix. she loves her son but she needs to let go and see the reality that he is dangerous. letting such a young man back into your home is dangerous. he can become violent again or due to the substance abuse steal from your home.
please read the advice on this thread and take them to heart.
My own family past is such
My own family past is such that I hesitate to give advice to anyone, but reading the op and skimming the responses makes me feel the need to say something. Number one- the described behavior is so extreme that no one should ever be expected to tolerate it. Number two- what is the actual chance that it has really gotten "better"? Number three- does "better" in this case actually mean that it wont happen again?
If, as I suspect, the answer to two and three are less than reassuring, I wouldn't let the ss back into the home, especially not around your own kids.
But as I said before, my own inability to deal with some of my own family issues in a successful manner makes me feel funny suggesting that someone else put their foot down...and I know how it can be to be stuck trying to please a spouse by tolerating things you never would have tolerated otherwise. So, best of luck.
OP here. I have no
OP here. I have no expectation that her son has gotten better. Supposedly, he was going to start counseling and stuff as a requirement for getting disability. I don't see that happening since he's taken off to Colorado for a perpetual high. I'm almost willing to bet that his disability will get pulled because he won't follow through on treatment, and he'll look to us to bail him out again. I'm done going along with that. I also agree that his behavior is extreme. I've never been around anyone like him before. It's like tiptoeing around a powder keg that's about to blow, all the time. My wife really wants me to have a relationship with him, but I'm frankly not willing to put my neck out for that anymore. If he wasn't her son, I wouldn't give him the time of day as the man he is turning into.
As I mentioned before, my boys' mom and I have 50/50 custody. I won't have my sons for Thanksgiving Day this year. They'll be at their mom's. The part that is really stinging about this is that I was given the option of having her son here for a Thanksgiving visit, or she'll go visit him. She's usually gone for a week or two when she does one of her visits. So, it looks like I'm spending Thanksgiving alone this year unless I can find someone else to hang out with that day. My family lives about 1,500 miles away. I'm supposed to go to Japan for work right after Thanksgiving, and my wife is going too. Maybe I'll leave a few days early so she can get a taste of what it feels like to get left behind when she comes back from her trip and I'm not there waiting. I wouldn't really do that. I'm obviously becoming a little resentful about this situation.
My wife and I just aren't on the same page about her son, and may never be. In no way do I want to interfere in her relationship with him. I'm just tired of getting dropped like a piece of trash every time her son pulls a stunt or pulls my wife back into his hurricane with his manipulation. I just need to disengage from the whole situation and enjoy my marriage when her son isn't all she's focused on, and find something else to do when I'm invisible to her.
I say go to Japan early. Not
I say go to Japan early. Not to punish your wife. But to do something good for yourself. You know you are about to experience several days of hurt. So why not turn that frown upside down? Go early and do some sightseeing. Make it a memorable TG for its exotic adventures, not for lonely marital tension.
I had to do a lot of traveling for medical reasons. I dreaded these stressful trips. So I figured out it would be much better if I made a point of doing something fun as a tourist while there. So I could have something to look forward to instead of dread.
You are currently dreading TG. Make it something to look forward to instead. Plan to go on Japanese hikes too vigorous for your wife or to Japanese museums that don't light her fire (my dh drags me to computer museums - one dingy old keyboard looks like the rest to me
).
If she's going to Colorado to make herself happy there is no reason you can't do something to make your TG happy. Trust me, it will be better for your marriage if you are out having a good time than if if you are home alone hurting and resenting.
Our friend's best friend had
Our friend's best friend had a situation like this with her son. He eventually assaulted her and she wrote him off at the point. Hope it all works out for you. Protect yourself and your children.
OP here. I thought I would
OP here. I thought I would give an update. My wife and I had a talk that was fairly blunt. I told her that I have minor kids that I am responsible for, and that I won't put them in a situation that makes me uncomfortable or could get volatile, depending on the mental state her son is in. I told her that even though her son says he is doing better, I have no reason to trust him. He isn't taking any medication, isn't consistently going to counseling, still causes chaos wherever he goes, and isn't doing any of the things he needs to do to help himself. I told her I am totally supportive of the relationship she has with her son, and that she can go to visit him whenever she wants. It is not my intent to come between them at all, and I won't. I told her that I want her to leave me and my boys out of their relationship from now on. Her son doesn't want a relationship with me. Frankly, I don't want one with him anymore. Trying to force something that isn't there isn't doing any of us any good. I told her that she, he, and I repeatedly end up in this loop where I'm being asked to go along with something that I'm not comfortable with for the sake of her son. I am no longer getting on the merry go round with them. I want to be left out of it from now on.
All of your comments to her
All of your comments to her were reasonable. So what was her response?
Good for you. It might be
Good for you. It might be hard for you right now, having to set these boundaries with your DW, dealing with unjustified guilt, second thoughts and doubts, etc., but maintaining a relationship with your SS is just too dangerous for everyone in the household. You did the right thing for all of you. I'm also wandering what your DW's response was.
She is disappointed that we
She is disappointed that we aren't becoming the perfect blended family. She admits that we may never be, but she still hopes for it. She repeated to me that people can change, which I agree with. I need to see evidence of that change, which I'm not seeing. Being told that he has changed doesn't cut it anymore. I've been told that so many times, just to end up sucked into his chaos again. She hasn't said a word to me about her son since I said I wanted to be left out of it. It's hard that I can't share that part of her, but it just ends up being crazy whenever I do.
I did contact her son, so I could hear about any improvement straight from the horse's mouth. I sent him a text where I told him that all I've ever wanted is for his mom to be happy. I told him that the rage and anger he dishes out are more than I can handle, so I choose to stay away from him. I acknowledged that things between him and I aren't good, and they may never be. I asked him if he would rather his mom spend the rest of her life alone so that he could have her all to himself, and if I will forever be his enemy for marrying his mom. He didn't respond, which is just more evidence to me that he hasn't really changed at all. I'm done getting sucked into his cyclone. I wanted to see if he would do the grown up thing at all and have a conversation about stuff. He didn't. I'm not surprised, but wanted to make sure my stance with him is still justified. He hasn't done anything to change my mind.
You made your statement to
You made your statement to him so he knows where you stand. And for yourself, you are directly communicating your boundaries. Trying to make him feel guilty about what his actions are doing to his Mother is not going to work. He's too much into himself to think of anyone else - even her. Contacting him any more would serve no purpose what-so-ever. Disengaging from him is the answer - not a perfect answer, but it will give you a chance to heal from all of the emotional damage SS has caused you. I suggest you see a counselor too - this will really help.
That was perfect. Well done.
That was perfect. Well done. You will never regret taking that approach with her.