My disengagement needs a tune-up!
SD27 and her hubby are coming to town for a visit - oh joy! I am very, very thankful that they will not be staying with us but at my SO's small vacation place nearby.
The issue is my SO wants me to be involved in activities which I really don't want to do. I've tried using the old "you need to develop your relationship with your SIL and your daughter on your own" tactic but it doesn't seem to be working. IMO, the reason is that my SO is awkward and tense and can't seem to get the conversation flowing on his own. He wants me there to do the conversational heavy-lifting since I am more outgoing than he is.
Yet, after awhile (once the talk gets started) my SO relaxes a bit and can then jump in and hold his own. Once he does, I get side-lined and ignored for the rest of the day. I got sick of this little scenario a long time ago and it's one of many reasons I decided to disengage. Not my kid, not my responsibility to be the communication kick-starter. And then kicked to the curb once I've done my duty.
I know I can manage for the few days they are here but it's just annoying. The older I get, the less I want to "play nice" and waste my time on people who don't give a crap about having a relationship with me. I would rather sit in the yard and feed the birds.
The most annoying thing is that when my SO told me they were coming I didn't have much of a reaction other than, "Oh, that will be nice." and didn't say anything more - in typical disengagement style. He immediately got huffy and said, "Well, you don't seem very excited about it." Why the hell should I? These are people I have ZERO connection to!
Guess I should have put on a pink tutu, twirled around the living room and sprinkled sparkle-dust all around - while singing "Halleluja" at the top of my voice.
Does he do this for you?
If he doesn't pump up the conversation when your family is visiting, you don't owe it to him. Pre-disengagement, Sd would visit and I was the one who prepared for her visit, cleaned, cooked, kissed her butt and in the end I was treated like dog doo. But when my family would visit, DH would hide out in another room.
That scenario would NEVER happen today. When my family of friends visit DH is hospitable and openly takes part in the conversations - and visa-versa. It's what Rags calls "An equitable relationship."
My family has always welcomed my SO.
We are a bunch of talkers so when they visit they have no problem engaging my SO. They truly care about him and he is considered part of the family. For example, my brother will invite him to go and do "guy" things together. I've never had such an invite from SD.
I would guess that DH does
I would guess that DH does not call or speak to his daughter and her husband often. If he did... conversation would be natural and not a problem. If he knew what she and her DH are are up to then it all becomes a catch up, banter and syncing session.
I call my parents a couple of times per week to get the upload on what they are up to. We go over dad's work outs, the adventures with the dog, my mother's quilting, what they did on date day, what friends they have seen or spoken with, etc, etc, etc..... Then we talk about what I have heard and what they have heard from my brother and his family, if we have talked to our son lately, etc.....
Usually the conversations are predominantly similar but it is the connection that is important.
When we visit them or visa versa we balance activities with just spending time together.
It is very telling that your DH needs a coach to interface and converse with his daughter. This tells me that you and your presence is far from the core of any issues in play and that you are used as the whipping post for SD and are the body guard for DH.
Not a fun place to be.
Take care of you.
Rags, you are as astute as always.
The crux of the problem is indeed the primary relationship between SD and my SO. The skids were subjected to parental alienation from BM and the effect of that sh!t runs deep. It's not only me, but my SO's entire extended family is ignored.
The communication style you have with your parents is typical of a balanced, reciprocal relationship. When my parents were alive we had a similar style. As an adult, I couldn't have imagined going for months at a time and not "checking in" with my both of my parents. Even though they were divorced and it was extremely acrimonious I maintained a connection to both of them until they died. There was never a time when they didn't know what was going on in my life, nor I in theirs. This may also color my perspective of the situation since I no longer have parents. What I would give for another day to spend with them!
SD does not seem to be bothered by lack of contact with her father. If he didn't reach out to her I am sure her connection to him would be reduced to once or twice per year - via a "How are you?" text. Never a phone call.
I will indeed take care of me; thus the disengagement.
Can you just tell your DH
Can you just tell your DH that you really don't WANT to participate in said activities? Maybe engage in a few things if you feel like that would be cordial, but for the most part don't participate if you don't want to.
I totally get what you mean about caring less and less about what people think I should be doing/saying/feeling/wearing/etc. as I get older. I'm a pretty decent human all on my own, thanks.
If I'm too truthful, the moping begins!
As many others can probably understand, if a parent hears that someone doesn't like their kid it never goes over well. I would love to be honest and tell my SO that his daughter is a selfish, self-absorbed princess and spending time with her is like listening to nails on a chalkboard.
He gets all mopey and hurt-butt if I even come up with excuses for not getting involved. I really don't care anymore because I'd rather that than spend another day of my life with a person I can't stand.
You don't have to be brutally
You don't have to be brutally truthful -- instead of selfish, self-absorbed princess something a little gentler. "Dh, I just don't share the same interests and I can't really participate in conversation when you two talk about things that happened before I was even around. How 'bout I skip this visit and give you two your own time?" And your DH will still get all mopey but that will be less about you hating his kid and more about him being responsible for the relationship. If he wants to be a manbaby about it, ok, you've got other stuff to do, move on.
My DH never goes to visit his kids without me. Yet he professes he misses them terribly. Well, jackass, go see them. Nobody is stopping you but YOU. I generally get along fine with his kids but I don't relish using up vacation days to give my patience face a workout.
If you do end up going to an
If you do end up going to an outing or two, don't say a word. Smile, answer questions if asked but don't do the conversation heavy lifting. Just sit there politely mum.
Like you I'm the one who gets the conversations started. I'm the one asking how people are, what is new, etc. DH and I got into an arugment about it one time. He thought he was the one who people talked to. So I sat silently at one family get together and smiled at him across the table as everyone awkwardly stared at each other. He did eventually start a conversation but he got my point.
When your DH points out that you aren't very excited about his skids visiting, tell him the truth. Be honest that you don't enjoy their visits. You won't ever stop him from seeing and enjoying them but there is no reason he should expect you to feel the same way he does.
Interesting you brought this method up, Notso!
I've actually tried this tactic about not engaging the conversation, several times over the years. I've sat there quietly at times and not said anything. Crickets. Absolute crickets. It was indeed awkward. But - after a minute or two SD will just go off on her own with her neverending monologue about her life, her friends, how much they LOVE her at work, how much her friends LOVE her, etc.
She even will talk about BM which is when I absolutely clam up. Anything she says about her mother, I sit there blankly and don't say a word. Neither does my SO. I really can't understand what she thinks either of us will contribute when it comes to BM. She will complain about her mother or what she does - I can't imagine what she thinks either of us will say about BM!
When DH brings up you going
When DH brings up you going remind him of this. Tell him that you have no interest in listening to SD go on ad nauseam about herself or her mother.
If you do end up going and it happens, as it will, give DH a very pointed look and excuse yourself. He'll know whats going on and know you're right without you having to say the dreaded I told you so. Which I admit I have done on many occations. In fact now DH gives me the You were right look before I have a chance to do anything.
If possible go in two cars. Ive found that it's nice to be able to leave when I'm feeling left out or just don't want to be there anymore.
Personally, how I would
Personally, how I would handle this would be to meet them once, when they got to your place, coffee and chat, or whatever, then withdraw and do your own thing. As Rags said, it is not your job to manage the relationship between your husband and his daughter. I would be absolutely straight with him, and tell him that you do not enjoy their company, and that you are only prepared to have the bare minimum contact. If he and they want this to be different, they should have treated you better in the past, frankly.
He's well aware that the problem isn't me!
As Rags also said, I'm just the convenient whipping post. When he's being lucid, my SO is smart enough to know and admit that he does not have a good relationship with her. I will indeed plan to slip away from whatever plans are made, and if I get pushback from my SO, I will hold my ground and re-state my reasons.
One SD comes to visit my DH
One SD comes to visit my DH sporadically. Even when we got along better, I didn't get involved in all of their activities. I said they needed one on one time to get caught up; I had other things that I needed to do, etc. Now that this SD has revealed herself to be a spy for her sister and the rest of the family hen house, I spend as little time as possible around her and her pot stirring antics. I've also been clear with my DH that life is short and I will spend my time doing what I want, around people who value me.
He did not set standards for how his daughters should treat him. I am not going to accept poor treatment just because he is ok being a doormat. He hates confrontation, so he doesn't argue with me about it.
I agree these dads feel uncomfortable around their adult children who are still whining about mommy and daddy's divorce. They want us there as buffer/scapegoat to make it easy for them. Nope.
Your SD is a spy...
...and that is a concern that most of us have, I think. It's something that my SO would never understand because I don't have kids. Since SD sits and talks bad about her mother to my SO and I, I can only imagine what she says about US to her beloved mother! Which is another reason to disengage. I would prefer that people I don't like know as little about me as possible.
Your point about your DH not setting standards for his treatment is a very important one. Like your DH, my SO is willing to be a doormat. Unfortunately, this has been reinforced by not one, but two counselors he has consulted over the years. They've both told him that he needs to be the one to continue to "reach out" to her, and he needs to "encourage her to talk about her life with open-ended quesions." What a bunch of crap.
What ever happened to the millenia-old idea that children should honor their parents?? Not in a worshipful way, but a simple humanitarian one. What happens when a parent is in their later years, have health issues and can't use technology anymore? I guess they are SOL since their precious kids can't or won't bother to pick up a phone and reach out to them to check on them.
What a sad state of affairs ...
I never worried much about my
I never worried much about my SKid talking about us when he was on SpermLand visitation. We had nothing to hide and they were the ones who didn’t want the Skid talking about them when he got home.
They knew they were pathetic. They just didn’t want anyone to know it.
Are you trying to be
Are you trying to be strategic in your approach or simply trying to spare your H's feelings? Be honest and tell him you don't want be there when SD comes around and you definitely don't want to be an ice breaker/buffer when it comes to kicking off conversations. This is his daughter and he needs to learn to carry a conversation and socialize with her. Why should you be used and subjected to being around someone who doesn't care about you.
So what if H gets upset, he'll get over it and you'll be happy that you won't have to deal SD in any capacity.
Sounds like you have your sh!t together
It sounds as if you are going into this 'reintroduction' with eyes and ears wide open. Good for you!!! If DH ever wants to ever 'reintroduce' SD in my life I will follow in your footsteps and not close my eyes to any periferal B.S. that is a 'remnant' of a past life in stephell. Thanks.