Looking for advice on difficult bm situation
A bit of history, my dh and I have been married for a year and a half and he has a 3 and a half year old daughter. He and bm met through a dating app and decided to make a baby together. There were some issues with this, the biggest being that she had told him she was divorced and it turns out she stayed married until 5 months after the baby was born. My dh is from another country and was scared about going to court because bm theatened to report him to uscis for immigration fraud and sue him because he wasn't giving her enough money. This kept my dh under her thumb until he moved away for work.
She has been unstable throughout our marriage. A few weeks after we got married she sent my dh her ovulation calendar and asked what he thought about giving sd a sibling. Bm claimed sd was lonely. This is surprising considering she already has 3 older siblings from bm's ex husband. Dh shut that down quickly but bm didn't like that answer. Cut to three months later and she's met the man of her dreams and is on her way to her fifth child with another man.
BM continues to guilt DH about moving away and pressure him for more money. They do not have court established custody or child support, he has been paying about 600 per month. She has threatened to cut off his contact with sd and it's heartbreaking to watch him struggle with this. If he doesn't try to call daily that's a problem, send money for whatever she buys for sd that is an issue and visit often enough as determined by bm. I know, sd is not my child but dh is my husband and I don't want him to have to go through this but I have no idea how to support him.
We have watched sd falling apart since the announcement of her baby sister. When we visited the last two times her clothes were unwashed and she was coated in filth. She barely eats and she has started to have accidents when she has been potty trained for over a year. She also has 3 cavities which adds to the whole picture and makes me worry about neglect. Am I over-reacting to this?
So technically, the child is
So technically, the child is not his, since she was married to someone else at the time of her birth, so he could probably get out of any sort of CS entirely; but I do hear that he loves SD, and frankly, she needs him in her life, given how crazy her mother is. Has he considered trying to get custody? As long as he's in the country legally and not committing immigration fraud per BM's claims, going to Family Court won't be an issue. Honestly, this is the kind of BM that might hand SD over to DH if she stops being a paycheck, and DH has a good chance of fighting any obligation to her in court. BM's former husband is the legal father. Can he afford an attorney?
I know I'm saying two things at once here - he may have no legal obligation to her, but he should try to get custody. Basically, I wonder if BM were threatened by losing her child support if she'd turn SD over to DH.
Correct, she is not legally
Correct, she is not legally his daughter. However, he had a dna test run and that confirmed it. The state bm lives in assumes paternity in the case of a married couple. He has been sending money electronically so there is a record of all transactions and he put for sd in the title of each transaction.
We've talked about him trying to get custody but we're both concerned about the cost of a lawyer and if bm will try something worse. He has seen her trying to get her older children to say that her now ex was abusing her.
My Dh is fine, everything is on the up and up immigration wise. I'm a US citizen and we're really married =) Even still, we're both concerned it might negatively impact when we do our second green card interview next fall.
Unfortunately I don't think getting custody is possible, dh told me she keeps talking about how bad she feels for people without kids to cry for them. 0_0 She seems to be collecting kids...
Dh tried for one week to not send extra money and she flipped out and started threatening him again. I told him about ofw and I'm hoping he will consider using it so all of their communication is logged.
My DH went through a high
My DH went through a high conflict divorce and court battle while on a H1B work visa, then got a green card and his citizenship in the middle of all of it. They even waived our second green card interview. Though - BM herself was also a non-citizen, so she had a vested interest in not getting herself deported by making false immigration claims.
Even as a citizen, making false claims to immigration is a crime, and BM could be prosecuted for it.
She will undoubtedly alienate the child and try to get her to lie, even if he doesn't try to get custody. But he really needs to go to court and at least get an official child support order and visitation schedule - what he's doing can be construed as a gift if it's not been officially ordered.
Honestly, his best would be to stop paying CS and have her take him back to court. He is not the father, legally. So because of that, he truly is just giving her a gift by paying her every month.
Her threats of suing him and
Her threats of suing him and reporting him to USCIS might do nothing but I have no doubt she will cut him off from communicating with sd. =(
Unfortanately BM lives in Michigan. They also factor the number of children she has from other fathers in the CS amount. It is also going to be difficult to get the paternity revoked from her ex at this stage since sd is over 3. Michigan has a few ways to get paternity revoked and most of them are time sensitive.
Honestly - this is going to
Honestly - this is going to sound really harsh - in this case, he needs to cut this child loose.
You may feel sorry for both of them now, but you won't in a few years, when he's paying tons of money for a child who is not legally his, to a crazy BM who is making your life miserable. She is effectively extorting money from him to see his child, and will apparently be able to do this FOREVER, because your DH is allowing it.
There is no way he will ever build a healthy and loving relationship with this child. He needs to stop seeing her now, so she won't even remember him as a father - and let the chips fall where they may. I know this sounds impossible, but it's really the only sane solution.
I agree with Tog on this.
I agree with Tog on this. "She is effectively extorting money from him to see his child, and will apparently be able to do this FOREVER, because your DH is allowing it." This is not a BM issue, really. BMs can be manipulative and controlling, and we as SMs cannot do much about it. Only dad can, but dad has to have at least some authority. Here he has next to none. This is a DH issue, however. If DH wants to kiss her pinky ring and throw whatever future you and he may have together under the bus, that is on him.
I never advocate for walking
I never advocate for walking away from a young child but this situation changed my mind. We deal with a HCBM and have been put through alienation hell over the last 7 years. However, that seems mild compared to what you are up against.
See if you can't get a few
See if you can't get a few free consultations with some local lawyers because he might be able to do without one. He has to realize that her threats against him are empty. Without a court order, ofw is pointless. Going after his legal rights should not, in any way, damage his chances of a green card.
His ex has a cushy just, she has 2 men paying for the same child...
Again, check out your state's child support calculator.
I totally agree - and if BM
I totally agree - and if BM does make false claims to USCIS, she herself can go to jail. So next time she threatens that, he should let her know he would prosecute her to the fullest extent of the law.
The only way to stay afloat with a BM like this is to not be afraid of her empty threats. He needs to stop paying her NOW, unless he officially becomes the child's father under law.
ETA: I am aware that not paying CS will affect his green card IF HE HAS A CS ORDER. He does not have one from the court.
He was hoping to avoid
He was hoping to avoid escalating things but it seems like she's got it covered all by herself. I will definitely talk to him about what he considers CS potentially being considered a gift by the court. This has really opened my eyes to the fact that he needs to talk to a lawyer or two this week for a consulation about how to handle this.
Honestly, he's not even
He's not even obligated to pay CS because he's not the legal father. If BM filed to have paternity switched to him, he would owe from the day she files, not from the day she was born. And if the ex DOES have CS order for the child, then your DH is giving BM free money every month for the pleasure of her being in his life.
YES, he absolutely needs to talk to an attorney about this, it would even be worth paying for.
Oh, she has it even better
Oh, she has it even better than you know. She has 3 men giving her substantial amounts of money and cs is based partially on the number of children she has (now 5). I just don't understand some people... how can she do this to her own kids? I feel like if you're going to add to your family make sure you can take care of the kids you already have first...
Because to her, they aren't
Because to her, they aren't children. They are meal tickets/things to use to get what she wants.
Lots of questions
Is your DH's situation legal? If so, he has nothing to fear. If not, what will it take to fix it?
Lots of things wrong with this situation. First off, if she was still married to her husband the child is considered to be his therefore your dh should not be giving her any money at all. Secondly, any money he gives her will be considered a gift and not taken into account if she manages to get his paternity recognized - especially if she's awarded back CS. Does he have any trace of what he's given her?
Next, how often does he see the little girl? If his situation is legal, there is no reason for him not to go after custody/visitation. A CO protects everyone's interests. Have you put his salary through your state's CS calculator? He may be liable to pay less than he does. Do you document his daughter's visits? Do you have photos or proof of her clothing and hygiene?
He's here legally, no issues
He's here legally, no issues there. All the CS he has paid is logged.
He was seeing her every two months, flying out for a long weekend. He also facetimes 5-6 times per week, or at least attempts to but often sd is not available or bm won't answer.
We do not have documented proof unfortunately he doesn't see her in person often enough to get a good body of evidence of neglect. Neither of us wants her to lose access to her mother but we're also pretty sure at this point that it would be in her best interest to live with us a lot more.
Until there is a court order,
Until there is a court order, the money he has sent will be considered a "gift".
What his equal is doing to
What his equal is doing to him is called extortion. Isn't that illegal?
Well - it's not his daughter.
Well - it's not his daughter, legally. So she has every legal right to refuse him contact with the child for any reason. In fact, she's doing him a "favor" by even allowing him to be in the child's life at all. If it were actually his legal daughter, then Family Court would not look kindly upon it.
I suppose a parent has the right to only allow someone to see their child if they pay for it, odd as that sounds.
I meant by demanding money or
I meant by demanding money or she'll "call the cops" on him, using threats.
Yeah, I suppose that's not
Yeah, I suppose that's not legal, is it?
This guy really has to stand up to BM. He's giving her way too much power.
LOLOLOL
LOLOLOL
Your dh's x is 'one of those'..Here is what he should do.stop paying her.
Paying her 600 a month for this garbage..without a court order. ?
And you wrote she is doing the same thing to other guys. WOW--she has there a money making business by selling kids like they are a time share.
Tell her to take you to court.
IF your husband continues to pay cash to see his kid without a court order, knowing she is doing this to other men too...--I do not feel sorry for him.
And even worse - it's not his
And even worse - it's not his legal child, so he doesn't owe her any child support. Her ex-husband does. So he's giving her free money.
I have to ask, what kind of
I have to ask, what kind of deal did DH and BM have to begin with? It almost sounds like he agreed to impregnate her for some sort of deal/ verbal contract? Is that what DH is concerned about. . . that if he goes to a lawyer or in front of a court all of this could come out? I'd go to a lawyer and lay it all out--the good, the bad, and the ugly, and see what the lawyers take on all of this is. He'd need to be completely honest.
Since she approached him for another child/ deal, you have to wonder how many of these deals did or does she have going on with various men. Sure sounds like extortion to me. Extortion = the practice of obtaining something, especially money, through force or threats. Even if DH agreed to something like, we can have a baby together, and I'll give you $600 a month and be able to visit, as "dad," legally a child cannot be used as a bargaining chip (although, I realize this winds up happening far too often in divorce situations, anyway).
You need to see a lwayer and be completely honest and get the real deal on what your options are. The law is way too complicated here for anyone to just wing-it, or brush it off, saying, "It won't work." At the end of the day, there are multiple lives this is impacting, and BMs in this country basically "own" their child, other than financially. So, if legally he is not the child's father, he may basically have zero rights regardless, and, unfortunately, why drag this out a lifetime if BM is only in it for what she can extort? If BM is mainly interested in money, that child's life-path was doomed and decided before BM even got pregnant.
Yeah, "He and bm met through
Yeah, "He and bm met through a dating app and decided to make a baby together". Either we are missing some information in there, or DH made a very poor decision.
Oh, DH openly admits he made
Oh, DH openly admits he made a very poor decision. They were dating for a month and a half, she started pressuring him for a baby, talking about how he was the love of her life, etc etc etc. To be frank, he was an idiot and fell for it. She pretended to want to get married after the baby was born (without ever mentioning the little detail about still being married). He tried to work it out, even after finding outing his ex had been lying for the sake of the child... DH says she was extremely controlling (not a surprise as that hasn't changed) and that he couldn't take it and left. So yeah, he made a mistake but at least he didn't marry her and spend his whole life in misery. I feel really badly for sd as she is about to turn 4 and her parents irresponsibility has created this really awful dynamic.
I admire my dh for wanting to help sd in spite of bms bad behavior and craziness. But I would be lying if I said I am not concerned about it escalating and sd potentially turning into a mini bm. I know there's still hope for her as she's still young but dh needs to decide to stand up to bm and fight for her or not. That decision is thankfully not mine to make and honestly even if he does we both know there is a chance he will not be able to get paternity revoked.
Yes, he needs to stop
Yes, he needs to stop kowtowing to BM and sending her money for a child that isn't legally his. He's not really helping SD, he's perpetuating a dynamic that hurts SD in the long-run.
My guess is that if BM went to court to let her ex off the hook and make your DH the father, the court would agree. So perhaps if he stops giving in to the extortion, she would do that.
ETA: My DH knocked up BM accidentally (on his part, anyway) after a month and she too was not yet divorced. He told her he wasn't staying with her unless she got divorced before the baby was born, which she did. That should have been his clue to GTFO, but he hung around to be with his son and eventually married BM. My SS is now 20 and BM has damaged him, and their relationship, beyond repair. I'm guessing he wishes on some level that he had walked away back then. Your DH has the option to do that and be off the hook legally.
OK, I total see where you are
OK, I do see where you are coming from. But, I do have to point out that you said this, "At least he didn't marry her and spend his whole life in misery." Yes, he may not have married her, but he did worse and had a baby with her, and now it appears BOTH you and he may spend your whole life in misery. Don't think this won't impact you too. SMs can wind up paying just as big, if not bigger price, than bio-dad, more times than you'd think. You are only in it a couple of years. Manipulative, controlling BM and weaker, enabling DH = step hell.
But, you have a good head on your shoulders and keep answering our questions, so I don't want to deter you too much. Nonetheless, don't make the mistake of thinking that him being an ostrich about all of this isn't going to affect you and your marriage, and whatever children you have together. And, really, no, it is not his decision alone to make. I can already tell you, if you leave it to him, he'll do nothing. Status quo. Men in this type of situation 999 out of 1,000 do what is easier for them at the moment. He is looking out foremost for himself, despite what you may think you hear to the contrary.
Your income could be impacted way more than just $600/ mo. down the road. Way more. This crap shoot should not be left just up to your DH. Yes, it is his child. But it is both of your lives (and your future children's lives) that will be impacted.
I appreciate everyones
I appreciate everyones openess and honesty about their experiences and things to watch out for. I have been direct with DH and told him I do not feel comfortable with sd coming to stay at our place until he gets paternity established and parental rights. I am worried that BM may cause a big scene if sd is here and he does not have the legal right to have her here. At least with parental rights if she tries to cause problems we have the law on our side.
I agree making a child is a very big deal, it's why I don't have any yet. I've been waiting until I felt established enough in my career and marriage. To be honest this business with sd is making me rethink having kids because I know you are right when you say this situation will impact them.
The financial piece is less of a conern, we do not have joint finances but we do have a budget and savings/investment goals each month and that includes the money going to SD. DH has agreed to not send additional money to BM in perpetuity. I'm sure this will cause a big blow up when she starts asking and he says no. The benefit we currently have is we are long distance so I feel a bit safer with this hcbm.
When I drove him to see SD for the first time hcbm demanded to be sent a copy of my drivers license so she could verify my identity *ROFL* Yeah, nooooope. DH did great with the crazy and just calmly told her no over and over again until it sank in. That incident has caused me to create a boundary, we are never living within 200 miles of bm.
DH needs to extricate his
DH needs to extricate his head from his butt and drag this toxic womb donor to court. The only way he will have any chance of protecting his child, his marriage and himself is to quit dancing to BM's toxic tune.
First, he needs to get a DNA test to make sure that SD is his. If she isn't, he needs to move on. If she is his... he needs to find an attorney who specializes in the rights of non citizen fathers and who will keep BM's feet to the fire. BM certainly has a history of indiscriminate breeding and manipulation of men so with the right attorney and dedicated focus on forcing BM to suffer continual consequences for her manipulative characterless crap DH might be able to give this little girl a chance at over coming the shallow and polluted end of her gene pool that she inherited from BM.
Good luck.
All IMHO of course.