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So I started an ADHD argument....

angry_kitty's picture

SS7 is ridiculously hyper - he couldn't sit still or be quiet if his life depended on it. From the moment he wakes up in the morning, until he finally falls asleep, he's running around, making noises, doing things he's not supposed to be doing, etc. He gets in trouble at school constantly for talking and goofing off. At home, if we tell him to go upstairs or go to his room, he's back down again 5 minutes later. Someone always has to be paying attention to him, and he can't stand when other people are talking - he's constantly interrupting, or talking over his brother and sister. Then, if that doesn't work, and someone else is trying to have a conversation that doesn't include him, he'll get nasty and pouty and tell that person to be quiet because he's getting a headache. He once told me I was "talking so much I made him forget what he was going to say," I snapped a little and said, "SS7, you literally haven't stopped talking for 3 HOURS, I've been talking to Daddy for 2 minutes, so shut your mouth for once and let the grown-ups talk." He wasn't happy about that. DH just kinda giggled. (SS7 drives him nuts, too, and it's his kid! Makes me feel better about having issues with SS being overbearing!)

Anyway, the constant need to talk/move/etc has made me suspect ADHD, even though, up until this kid, I never believed it was a real thing. But seeing how SS7 behaves, compared to other children of the same age, and his younger brother and sister...he doesn't seem quite "normal".

So I was doing some research on ADHD, options for treatment besides medication, etc, just to get some ideas on how to get this kid to calm down and behave, especially in school. As soon as I mentioned it to DH, though, he hit the roof. He wouldn't even listen when I said I was looking at things besides medication, just started yelling that his kid wasn't getting put on drugs, he didn't have a disorder, he wasn't going to be treated any differently, a previous girlfriend said she thought SS7 had ADHD too but HER kids were insane, so this was just ridiculous, etc. I said, "Okay, but I don't have kids. I see your other kids, I see my friend's kids, and the way SS7 acts is a LOT more ridiculous than any of them."

DH insists it's completely normal, and he got pissed that I would even consider ADHD because it's "not real," and said SS7 was only this way because he has a lot of energy, but no way to expend it. We live in a townhouse, so there's no yard, and SS7 can't be trusted to go to the playground by himself. DH doesn't take him outside to play, either. He works from home during the day, usually until SS7 gets home from school, but then he has several contract projects he's working on, usually til late at night, with only a break for dinner, and another to put SS7 to bed. He said he's constantly working to make money, trying to find avenues to make more money, so we can get a house with a big back yard, and once we have a yard, SS7 won't have a problem anymore, he guaranteed if SS7 can get outside to play, he'd be fine. I told him he was looking too far ahead. We aren't buying a house any time soon, so he needs to look at what we've got now, and address these issues with what we've got. I said, "And in the meantime, you can't take 20 minutes out of your day to take SS7 outside so he can run around?" I got a good minute-long glare...then lo and behold, about 10 minutes later, DH took the kids outside to play. He was pissy for the rest of the evening...but still. And I think it happened every day this weekend (I was gone for most of it).

So...what should I do from here? Anything? On one hand, I feel I may have brought DH's attention to the fact that he needs to stop working 20 hours a day, and go out and play with his kids...which is good...but on the other hand...what if SS7 really needs more than that? After being outside and running around for a while, when he got back inside, he was even worse.

And by the way...my stance on a lot of this is...I shouldn't have to do something just because DH can't or won't. If I take his kid outside, DH gets away with not doing what he's supposed to.

Auteur's picture

Well it USED to be completely normal until government outlawed discipline, specifically the paddle. One quick whack accompanied with the words "SIMMER DOWN!" and most ADHD problems were quickly cured.

angry_kitty's picture

LOL That's what I always figured - if you beat them enough, they'll eventually start to behave, right? Blum 3

Nobodytoyou's picture

Nice! I agree. I had "ADHD" as a kid. When I was acting up I would catch a smack to the back of my head along with "CUT IT OUT!" And I would listen. I am very calm, mellow and patient now. I rarely lose my cool and I am extremely focused. That was “normal” treatment when I was a kid. I’m 27 now…

DeeDeeTX's picture

Have a teacher or school counselor talk to dad about it. Coming from you, it's just another "you hate my kids" thing.

Willow2010's picture

Sorry, but he sounds like a typical boy of that age. It also sounds like his dad ignores him and he is starved for attention. My DS was SOO hyper at that age. It is just how you parent them. DS was disciplined for school infractions and by the time he was in third or fourth grad, he had calmed down a whole lot. I THANK GOD I NEVER DRUGED HIM UP!!
He is now almost 19. He has NEVER been in any trouble, he graduated with all A’s and B’s. He is in his first year of college. And holds down an almost, full time job. He also has a beautiful girlfriend.
SS was hyper also and he was ignored and put on drugs by the time he was 4 years old. SS STAYED in trouble for his entire school career. He went into military and hopefully that will correct a few of his problems.

Anywho…don’t be so quick to drug the kid up. He sounds normal to me. Now I know you are going to have a whole bunch of moms jump on here and tell you how perfect their little boys were and never got hyper and such. I don’t think it is the norm for a young boy to be perfect. lol

angry_kitty's picture

I don't want to drug him up, I consider that absolute worst-case scenario. I remember when my cousins were on Ritalin, and it made them worse, especially if they forgot a dose. And I refused to take Prozac when they tried to put me on it for an occasional anxiety problem a couple years ago - why would I give a kid drugs, if I don't want to take anything myself?

That's why I was looking for alternative treatments. Or suggestions, or something. I told DH yesterday we needed one of those old fashioned, spinning whirligig laundry dryers to put in our back patio area, get those kid-leash-harnesses on the kids and attach them to the dryer, and just let them run in circles. He didn't like that idea. Beee

ctnmom's picture

"DH doesn't take him outside to play either". There's your problem in a nutshell! I know you guys are saving for a bigger house but you also have to take care of the HERE AND NOW. This is typical boy behavior, somewhat magnified. Perfectson22 was like this minus the interupting and pouting. (not allowed in my house Dirol ). Almost every night DH took him out to a vacant lot (you have a park so even better) and fired baseballs at him, made him be both the hitter and the catcher, or kicked around the soccer ball, or just ran windsprints with him like a damned fool. You've got to tire boys out. And these workouts were never more than an hour, small price to pay for a tired little boy. My niece's son is 7,he's so wound up AFTER basketball practice her DH has to "wrestle" with him for at least 30 minutes!

angry_kitty's picture

Normal, really?? Sheesh...this kid needs a hug or some type of "look at me" validation every 5 minutes, and his mouth runs from both ends. The other kids aren't like that...maybe I'm just lucky with them?

I'm sure most of the problem is SS7 wanting attention (there's probably abandonment issues from his mom adding to that, too, but that's a whole other story), and DH slacking...but DH isn't slacking to sit on the couch and watch TV or play video games, which was a bigger problem when he wasn't working. Now it's the opposite - he's got too much work.

The annoying part about the "buying a house" thing...we're NOT saving to buy a house - we don't have anything extra to save right now!! A house is YEARS away, and he's talking like we need a down payment next week or next month.

Our financial situation will be better when his contracts are done and he gets paid for them, but that adds to the problem - he's trying to finish quickly so the checks come faster. In doing this, DH is burning himself out, he's not getting enough sleep (I wasn't exaggerating when I said he's working 20 hours a day, a typical day for him is 7 am - 3 am), and I know the last thing he wants to deal with is his overly enthusiastic kid. Part of me really, really wants to help DH...but part of me doesn't, because it's his job to take care of his kid, and part of me thinks the kid's too annoying to tolerate for more than 10 minutes.

And it's not like I'm not doing anything. I have a full time job, 5 college classes, and my hobby I just started after several years of nothing...so I don't have a lot of free time, either, and I don't really want to spend it with a kid who annoys the crap out of me most of the time. And if DH isn't sacrificing or altering his schedule, why should I? I don't mean to sound selfish, but I need my "me" stuff, too. I had given up anything I wanted until now, I'm not going back to doing nothing for the sake of him and his kids. Or should I cut him some slack because he's working?

We've talked about putting SS7 in football or something after school, but even if we could afford it, I'd be concerned that he won't follow directions. DH said it's something to be used as a reward...but he can't even behave now, so are we rewarding his current bad behavior? And that also adds to the trouble of...who's going to take him, and sit at practice and games? Aarrrghh!

angry_kitty's picture

And pouting/interrupting aren't supposed to be allowed in our house, either, but SS7 still pouts a LOT (how do you get them to stop?! Spanking/time outs don't seem to work, but DH does the discipline), and the interrupting...DH taught his kids they need to say "Excuse me" when someone else is talking...but they're still learning that they still have to wait until that person is done or acknowledges them. SS7, though, will keep saying "excuse me" until you stop what you're doing and pay attention to him, then he'll say the same thing 5 times. Daddy...daddy...excuse me daddy....daddy....daddy....I finished my dinner, daddy...I finished my dinner....daddy, I finished my dinner, daddy, daddy, I finished my dinner, daddy"....

On a side note...he says "Daddy" so much, I told DH we need to turn him into a drinking game. I'd be hammered in about 3 minutes, and passed out in 10, LOL Biggrin

ctnmom's picture

Yea,the "excuse me" rule doesn't work,I had a friend that used that w/her son and everytime I went over to her place, by the time I left I wanted to kill her kid! lol I would use escalating punishment. 1st interruption-2 minutes in the corner. 2nd interruption-5 minutes in the corner, etc. They HAVE to learn to wait for a natural break in the conversation. And they don't have adult status,make that clear... THEY don't pay the bills! And the pouting thing would be easy with a boy IMO- just say "Oh SS your pouting like a girl, look at you! Let me go get a bonnet to put on your head" or " a skirt and pretty blouse for you"! I thought only GIRLS pouted like that"!

Nobodytoyou's picture

Me, my gf and her 6yo daughter live together. Your 7yo SS sounds a lot like my 6yo SD. If you look through some of my posts you will see a lot of behavioral problems matching up. She is in need of constant attention. She has to have the main stage at all times. If my gf and I are having a conversation she has to interrupt. It’s funny because I call her out on it. She will shout “please excuse me!” and we will give her our attention and then you can see she had nothing to say. I’ll call her out by saying “what. Now you got to make something up to say to justify your interruption?” my gf doesn’t like that… we have a babysitter that sits while my gf is there just to “entertain” her daughter so my gf can clean and do housework. Sd is attached to her mom at the hip if no one is around. As soon as the sitter leaves she will instantly say “I’m bored, where are we going tonight?” her mom has “activities and events” planned for almost every night so the 1 maybe 2 nights a weeks we have no plans sd complains of being bored…

So, what I want to say to you is that her daughter “tested on the autism spectrum”. Which means she supposedly has ASD. She is more normal than not. She acts more like a spoiled brat than anything. I mentioned to her mom, after countless hours of researching ADHD, that her daughter might be better off being “treated” for ADHD rather than ASD. She is just like your SS. She does show some ASD traits. But honestly the “spectrum” is so broad that everyone shows SOME asd traits.

Treatment” does not have to be medication. It can come in the form of changing the SS’s diet. Monitoring sleep patterns, setting more strict rules and consequences might help. Unfortunately, I have no kids. Most of my opinions don’t seem to count because of that.

Please check out some of my posts. We share a lot in common here and should stick together!

skylarksms's picture

I do believe in ADHD. I also believe that way too many kids are medicated that don't truly have it.

I blame bad diets, lack of exercise and piss poor parenting.

Which makes a LOT of COD have the same symptoms as those with ADHD/ADD

Starla's picture

Im wondering about a few different things just to get a better understanding of your situation. Does your SS consume much sugar, caffeine, his over all diet, a healthy appetite, or if he eats like a bird? My husband & I have worked with hyper active kids what not & there are things you can do without needing to drug them up. Wondering also where the BM stands in the picture if she does? I cant imagine how you must feel or if it seems like your dealing with your SS as a single parent without any legal rights.

Our best friends have boys oldest is 9 & he has ADHD. On medication during the school week which they all seem to like & off his medication during the weekends. We watch the kids from time to time & it takes my DH & I about an hour or two before this kid starts to calm down. We have observed how their parents handle this boy & have learned that he actually attempts to run his parents. Great kids & great parents but even the best of parents can be blind.

I feel that the best help you can get, needs to come from your DH. Understand he has a busy life but he had time to make a family & boys need their dad ADHD or not. Perhaps your SS can sit down each day as he works on any given project in the same room as your DH? Allowing the dad to see just how hard it is for his son to sit quiet let alone focus.

sarajane231's picture

Sounds a lot like my son who has ADHD. I don´t medicate him, but he has lots of help from myself and at school. I am very careful what he eats (low sugar, no additives, plenty of Omega 3) and I try and always make sure he has activities to keep him busy. It is hard work, for sure, but these kids cannot help it -it is like they are driven by a motor inside.

Anyone who thinks ADHD doesn´t exist has not ever lived with a child who has it. My son sometimes cries his eyes out because he says he can´t remember where he put things or because he thinks people don´t like him because he talks too much. He hates himself sometimes because he wants to be still and quiet but he just cannot do it.

There is no sense saying you can discipline a hyper kid out of being hyper...you can´t, but you can help them.

A fantastic book for disciplining a kid like this is "1,2,3 magic". It helped me enormously. Also get the kids to be active physically...just one hour a day of intensive exercise can really calm them. Get them interested in a quite activity - my son loves drawing and will do it for hours quietly.

they do eventually learn, it just takes longer. They do calm down as they get older.

This is a labour of love, and I salute you for finding the energy to help in parenting a child with additional needs

x

Auberry2's picture

Sounds just like my DS8 who has ADHD. I get really fired up at people who think ADHD is just a label, that all an ADHD kid needs is more spankings, harder spankings, better parenting. It is a very real mental issue,, the problem is teachers and parents with normal, high energy, intelligent kids who don't want to deal with them and will do anything to drug them up so they don't have to deal with them.

I went through six years of my son being in constant (I mean CONSTANT) motion, there was never one part of his body that was still for even a few minutes. Constant noise as well. He couldn't be quiet. He was either talking or making sound effects, but never quiet. I am a strict parent, I keep my son involved in sports and make sure he spends as much time as possible outside engaged in physical play, and it still wasn't enough to really wear him out. It is exhausting to parent a truly ADHD child. And it isn't just their energy and noise levels, it is a lack of ability to organize, forgetfulness, impulsiveness. Parenting my one child felt like parenting five. I could keep all three of my neices for a weekend and not work as hard as I did between picking my son up from daycare and putting him to bed.

Now, I have full respect for going the all natural treatment route and know people who have done it with varying success. For my son, I chose to use a low does of medication to help take the edge off in school. This was the best option for my family.

Perhaps, as others have mentioned, if you could have the child's teachers or the school counselor broach the subkect with your DH it would go over better. I understand how you feel, it is such a job parenting a child with ADHD, I can't imagine trying to handle it as a SM.

smartone's picture

ADHD really is fabricated, and mostly NEVER a child's fault. A kid with behavior problems at home can behave when disciplined at school. When they are also getting in trouble at school, it's not about discipline, it's about biology. Kids are eating crap that makes them act this way; actually it's more that they are not getting the nutrients they need to KEEP from acting this way. Too many processed foods, artificial colors, sugar, etc. Kids need more nutrient dense foods and LOTS more omega-3 fatty acids. All kids need vitamin/mineral supplements of some kind. Only after feeding kids properly (parents!) can kids then be disciplined properly (parents!) so that the kid can control his own behavior when appropriate (THIS is the kid's responsibility).
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/adhd/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=10...

Maria10's picture

Aka...DISCIPLINE...

Only give attention on your terms. By that I mean:

he opens his mouth....go to your room

He wants entertainment/ says hes bored...put a rag in his hand and show him to clean mop etc.

Include him in your activities. Cooking, laundry, cleaning. Grocery shopping(.....maybe not this one lol). Occupy his hands doing useful things. 

Send him to his room to play. He comes down too early then he gets an unpleasant chore to do.

Have you guys sat down with him and set some house rules delineating and enforcing appropriate behavior?

Some behaviors should have negative consequences. 

About the ADHD 7yo is too early to diagnose bc most kids that age have adhd tendencies.

Asd can be diagnosed early but it is not always medicated.

My advice is for you to do some research about Adhd nehavior modification. Then if apllicable start implementing with Ss.

Rags's picture

When the pseudo-science otherwise unemployable semi-professional make shit up to justify their existance crowd started the syndrome of the month club movement to justify their otherwise waste of skin existance, idiot parents had ready made excuses for their failed breeding experiements and the smoke and mirrors they need to parade their ill behaved spawn in public.

Even more tragic was when government decided to accept the pseudo-science crap and start to interfere in parenting.

Funny how when a trip the the woodshed for a meeting with the razor strop was how parents dealt with ill behaved children there were very few ill behaved children.  Public melt downs were rare, juvenile delinquency was rare, and parents would not pollute their communities with ill behaved spawn because the communty would not tolerate either the idiot parent or the ill behaved spawn. 

The meeting of pseudo-science idiots and idiot parents made the perfect environment for the current epic ill behaved child shit storm.

Sadly.

Some kids need help and forturneately there are some effective therapists and medical professionals that can help those that actually need professional help.   Most of them just need a paddle to the butt to connect their brains to good behavior.

All IMHO of course.