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Making up time? Sports Edition

ESMOD's picture

Not step parent related.. but divorcing parent related.. and will, at some point become steplife for these kids.. and the BM is my OSD.. so some relativeness to steplife lol.

 

Background

OSD has two boys, one 4 and 5 and is in the process of divorcing EX.  They live 10 minutes from each other and are doing the 2/2/3 50/50 split.  Both boys are playing baseball at some level.. older one more advanced (older) and his father is coach on his team. They have not been great at accomodating each other's requests... or especially her EX.. it was fine when she was allowing the older boy to go with dad on her time during hunting season.. but mother's day rolls around and he refused to let the boys be with her.. even for a few hours on that Sunday.. so generally, she has been more flexible than him.

 

Current question.

She has a kind of standing dinner with her grandmother and grandfather(boy's great grands) most weeks during nice weather..  Another local cousin with kids not far from the boy's ages are also part of this weekly event.  Historically, my MIL has arranged the timing to not conflict with her Ex'es time.. but this week, the date was set for a day that is OSD's day.. and unfortunately, the older boy's baseball game was cancelled earlier in the week due to weather and rescheduled for the same night.

So, her options are

1. kid misses game, she and both boys attend dinner.

2. Kid goes to game with dad and she takes other boy and they miss the dinner.

3.  Kid dropped with DAD to go to game, she and younger boy attend dinner.

 

Now, I think that generally an 8 yo kid probably should be going to the game of the team he committed to.. and I think she somewhat is ok with the kid going to the game.. but she asked her EX.. "when will I get my time made up"

Which is a bit complicated.. it's not like it's the whole night.. but it is the majority of the "awake" time that evening.. 

And.. she would have her younger.. so it's not like she is not getting any time with her kids.

And.. with sports.. and her EX being involved.. he is naturally going to get more time because he is involved with the team.. so he will be with the kid on his time.. plus her time when there are games... is it really worth it to try to nickel and dime that time?

But, there is the matter of him being so stingy on mother's day.. plus he has said things to the kids that aren't nice.. like if she was caught on his property he would hurt her.. and the boys have seen their dad hurt her in the past.. and he tells the kids mommy doesn't love them.. so yeah.. he is a controlling jerk but he is their dad too.. so hard to keep him from not having them right? stuff like that is tough to prove.. plus, she does say he is a pretty ok dad to them (excluding the stuff about her).. and she probably wouldnt be able to handle them full time anyway haha.

So, is her ask about makeup time on game days reasonable.. or is it just something that you are agreeing to when you allow the kid to be in sports.. I think the latter.. if she doesn't want this to be an issue.. decline to allow the kid to participate (but kid likes it.. and at 8 he would know why he wasn't getting to be on a team).

Maybe this is just a matter of putting the kid's first as a parent.. let them go to their game.. if going to grandma's with the younger is more enriching for him than sitting at the game watching the older one.. you do that.. if you would prefer to be at game.. do that... but asking for makeup time in this situation isn't too reasonable.. now next hunting season when he wants to take the kid on her weekend.. she should refuse THAT.. or ask for makeup time for that time.. since it isn't a team activity she already agreed to.

 

Comments

Trudie's picture

Your OSD states that the boy's father is a "pretty okay dad to them". He isn't. Any man (or woman) who harms his wife (or husband) is not a good parent. Physical harm, telling lies, and control are all harmful and not acceptable. The boys are a part of both their mother and father, when either parent disparages the other it hurts the boys. Why would she give up her time to someone who harms her children?

When I divorced my ex, we had 50/50 custody but my son went with him and my daughter stayed with me. I paid a ridiculous sum of child support...plus bought their (son and his father) food, paid all insurance, clothed my son, etc. Why? Because I wanted to make sure he was fed and clothed. Whatever he needed, I paid for. (Yes, he did have a part-time job that was for spending money.) I knew not a cent of that child support 'supported' my son. His parents, who are worth millions, bought him a house and paid his bills. Why did my son go with his dad? Because my ex brainwashed him; he told him I had affairs, that I kicked him out, didn't want him, didn't love him, etc. None of that was remotely true. He had been 'working' on my son for years. When my son was 18, I told him the truth. It was tough for him to hear, but I told him in a factual manner and left emotions out of it. I did not disparage his father. My son was able to connect the dots. We have a great relationship forged on love, honesty, and mutual respect. My son also loves his dad (as he should) but he knows who to come to for...well, everything. 

Also, what is really funny...but not funny at all...was the fact that my ex's family told my son I was a gold digger! Projection and denial at it's finest!

I do not think this will be popular, but I am going to say it. IMHO, I think too much emphasis is placed on sports. Yes, sports are great small scale, but not when it runs their life, affects their schoolwork, or sacrifices quality family time. For the majority of kids, sports will not take them anywhere in life. Spending quality time with family and building relationships will. 

 

ESMOD's picture

I agree on the sports.. if it is going to be constant contention.. then the kids need to not do it.  Sports have benefits that kids can learn from.. but the chance a kid is going to get some financial/llife benefit? marginal.. other  activities can do the same thing.

But, I do think that my OSD doesn't want her kids full time.. that it would be too much for her.. so she talks the talk of him being a "good father".. when a lot of what he has done imho also is not great parent material.

But.. from my own bias with her.. I see her kind of playing the BM game of cherry picking what she wants.. she doesn't want full time responsibility for the kids.. yet she will nit pick over the time he puts in with them extra.

And.. for her.. yeah.. the fact that he takes the kid hunting and is involved with his sports.. she sees that as hallmark of a good parent.

I will say.. I don't think she or her EX are phenom parents. neither has the temperament for it.. and they don't work with their kids on development stuff.. at 4 and 8 you can hardly understand either of them.. and it's ridiculous.. it's a sign to me the kids aren't spoken to much.. read to etc..

they are pretty poorly behaved too.. lots of acting out.. so I'm on the fence over which home would be marginally better lol.

But in this case,  I do think.. either decline sports.. or accept what goes along with it.. that it will infringe on your parenting time at some point.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

If you think about it, by letting SS go with dad to the game and her going to the dinner, she is voluntarily forfeiting her parenting time to him. She made a committment to having him that night. She agreed to sports. A judge might think that she's shirking her responsibilities by choosing another activity over what she agreed to do with her kid. From what it sounds like, this is ongoing. She really should mind her p's and q's and stick to the schedule if this guy would be the type to go for full custody. You can believe a jerk like that is documenting every hour he has them for his lawyer. If she really is a low investment/low interest parent, this guy will exploit that. She could end up paying the jerk child support if she isn't careful. 

CastleJJ's picture

For this, I think SD needs to reframe the situation a bit. The game was rescheduled due to weather, so if exDH was not involved with baseball at all (as coach or otherwise), would she be taking the child to the makeup game or making him miss to attend dinner? Take the exDH out of the equation all together. 

Just because the exDH is the coach, doesn't make it his time. Unfortunately, yes, he will still see the kids more because he is coach. I assume she would still be taking the child to the sport on her time, unless she doesn't allow them to attend on her time. Either way "makeup time" isn't warranted in these situations, since she is allowing them to play the sport regardless. This is one of those things where childhood extracurriculars eat into "your time" and the option is they either participate or they don't, even in intact families. 

Now the concern about the threats exDH is making is valid and could be something that needs to be addressed by the court and maybe law enforcement via restraining order or reducing exDH's parenting time. Additionally, SD does not need to be flexible with the CO at all. If exDH asks for extra days or to switch, she is completely within her right to say "No" and to maintain her time, especially if she knows he won't reciprocate for her. She needs to stop being flexible with him or asking for makeup time because if she flexes for him but he won't flex for her, she has no recourse. 

ESMOD's picture

I agree... theoretically.. her option is take her kid to the game..and miss dinner..or let dad take kid to game and go to her dinner.

either way.. I kind of think the kid should make his ball game.. as much as I don't see sports as the biggest priority.. since he committed.. this was part of the possibility she allowed him to be signed up for.

CastleJJ's picture

No, her option is to either:

1. Take everyone to the game and they all miss dinner. 

OR

2. Take everyone to dinner at MILs and nobody goes to the game. 

There is no giving Dad the child to take to the game. It is her parenting time. By doing that, she is forfeiting her parenting time without recourse for makeup time. 

ESMOD's picture

The problem she has is she does have precedent here.. this team's practices are a decent amount of driving outside the area.. so she often lets her DH take just the older boy to a practice or a game on her time.. because she doesn't want to do all that driving... mostly for practices.. she will do it for most games.

IMHO.. she can't pick and choose that it's convenient to let him take the kid when she doesn't feel like driving.. but then want him to give her some compensation when he does it.  

I think she wants to have both happen.. kid in game.. and dinner with younger son.. if that's the case.. she has to accept she has given that time to her ex.. she could have chosen to be the one to take him to the game.

CastleJJ's picture

Yeah she is cherry-picking her options here and voluntarily forfeiting time to exDH, which will not entitle her to make-up time. If he was vindictive enough to take her back to court for more time, this would not help in her favor. If it is her time, she/her side needs to be doing everything for those kids. If she wants the best of both worlds, she has to accept the consequence that comes with that (i.e. less time with kids, no reciprocation from exDH, etc.)

Rags's picture

Which of course means that she complies with it to the letter.

We took this stand the whole time with some caveats.  No was always the answer when the SpermGrandHag pushed for more time.  However, the CO stipulated that they had to notify in writing no less than 60 days prior to any visitation they intended on taking. Winter and Spring were fixed against the school calendar but they got to stipulate the start date for summer visitation.  DW had 10 days she could take at some some point during their summer visitation which also required her to notify them a minimum of 60 days prior.  They played games with that, so we did not let them pick the start date of their visitation. We told them what date it could start no earlier than.  No games were played by us on encroaching on their time. We just took their ability to stipulate summer start dates.  

MD and FD were not mentioned in the CO due to the long distance visitation schedule. Both MD and FD were on DW's time.  

Only once did we agree to extended visitation. That was the last visitation before SS aged out from under the CO.  He graduated HS at 17 and turned 18 at the end of the summer.  Due to their games with summer and wanting to not give DW July 4th as part of her 10 day visit during their 5wks in the summer, they never had him on his B-day.  SS called ans asked if he could have 2 extra weeks with them since they wanted him on his birthday and had never had him on a birthday.  We agreed. That was his 18th B-day and we were concerned that he might not come home and decide to stay in SpermLand.  To make that as uncomfortable as possible, rather than flying him home at the end of that visitation, DW went to SpermLand to pick him up.  That was to prevent him from not having to tell his mom face to face that he was not coming home. Not something he would do.  He is a pleaser and he worships his mom. So, we stacked the deck on preventing him from trying that.

We flew BIL2 out for a visit then DW and BIL2 did a cross country road trip to SpermLand to be there at the end of the final visitation. I flew out 2days after DW had collected SS and we did a road trip back home.  We hit several national parks, and points of interest.

The first couple of days of the trip SS was sullen and silent.  He finally broke the silence and told us that he knew why we had come to get it and that he knows where is home is and who his family is that truly cares about  him and that we did not have to do that.  He truly is exceptionally observant, perceptive and smart.

We ended up having a great trip. Once he had worked through his sullenness and called us out on our tactics, he was engaging, and we all laughed and enjoyed each other and the road trip.

My point is, the quality side has to play the long game, give no quarter, and protect the kid(s) when the other side is shit. Far too many are.

And as has already been said, an okay parent/father does not beat the mother of their children even if that mother is the spawn of such a noxious BM.

Interestingly, both of my FILs had a talk with me before I married their daughters that if I ever hit them, I was pig food.  I had no issue with either of them for having that talk.  My dad had already given me that message.   Not that I would lay a hand on an SO except in self defense to protect myself.  I detest bullies.  Someone who would beat their wife, would not fair well if I was present.

Trudie's picture

Interestingly, both of my FILs had a talk with me before I married their daughters that if I ever hit them, I was pig food.  I had no issue with either of them for having that talk.  My dad had already given me that message.   Not that I would lay a hand on an SO except in self defense to protect myself.  I detest bullies.  Someone who would beat their wife, would not fair well if I was present.

My son has seen some things no one should have to see, especially a childHe is not like his father, he is loving, kind, and gentle. However, I felt it necessary to make one thing crystal clear: If he should ever harm his significant other, I will stand with her. My personal code would allow for nothing less. 

Trudie's picture

I think your mama and I would get along smashingly!

NotYourAverageStepMama's picture

more of a priority to her. I would say if not missing any time with older son is priority to go with option 2 so she doesn't miss any time, Dad is the coach it is not like he is going over to hang out at Dad's solo on OSD's time. However, if the dinner is more of a priority to OSD then to go with option 3. I don't think the older son should miss his game. It is important to teach children when they make a commitment that they follow through with it. It is unfortunate in this situation the Dad is the coach because he does interaction with his son on OSD's time where she does not, but again he is coaching a team so it is not quality time. If OSD is stuck on what to do, perhaps ask the younger brother if he would rather go watch his brother at his game or attend the dinner?

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Were it me I would stick to the custody schedule. Bring both boys to the game. But also not accommodate the ex's special requests. With an a-hole ex, i wouldn't give them an inch. Especially if it looks like this dad is going to possibly use sports or hunting as a way to "edge her out" as far as time. She's got a long road ahead and as stated by the poster above, he really isn't a good dad if he hurt her in front of the boys. But, if she really prefers to go to the dinner, that's her choice. But i wouldn't start down the road of special requests and making up time. Not with a guy like that. ETa also, she needs an iron-clad CO ASAP. One that addresses vacations, holidays, etc. 

ESMOD's picture

Absolutely yes on getting their CO perfectly finalized.. it is not yet.. just an agreement they made in court for the schedule to be 2/2/3 but nothing about any specifics otherwise.

I also think she needs to keep to the schedule... as far as I am concerned.. she learned her lesson with hunting season and mother's day.  When given the chance, he and his family will push for every bit of extra time.. but not give an inch for her.. even when it's reasonably sympathetic to let the kids spend time with their mom on mother's day.

Next hunting season. dad can plan to hunt on his days.. 

And.. she needs to probably not be too intrusive on her DH's days when she goes to watch the games... it's dad's time then.. then she doesn't try to take over.  but if it's her time.. she can take the kids with her to snack bar or whatever.

I can see glimmers of her mom (my BM..shudder) in some of the things she thinks or says.. so I'm not saying she is 100% easy to deal with.. her wanting makeup time for the game was a bit much imho.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Agree as far as her wanting to make up time. She committed to the custody schedule and she committed to sports. She needs to honor her commitment. In this case, it's her asking for special favors and giving up her time to Dad. As another poster said, if Dad weren't the coach, would she ask him to take the boy extra on her time so she can go to the dinner? If so, she is voluntarily giving up her time. Not a good look for someone going through a custody case. 

notarelative's picture

I'm read the original post a couple of times and gone back and forth. My thoughts for what they are worth.

Mom needs to really think about what she wants in the CO and then follow it to a T.

Would the decision be different if Dad were not the coach? 

This is a young kid league. There is no MLB scout in the stands watching the kid. It's a rescheduled game. Sometimes kids on teams miss rescheduled games due to prior family commitments. Yes, the child needs to learn to keep commitments. But, he also needs to learn that family is important too.

Mom made her plans around the sport schedule. She did her part. Unfortunately, the game was rescheduled. My vote is that the child misses the rescheduled game and Mom keeps her previously scheduled family commitment.