Do these fathers really fear their kids/adult kids?
Just been pondering the above question. How did the roles get reversed where the fathers behave like they are afraid of their kids/adult kids? Why did these troubled kids/adult kids ever try to exert so much power and control over a parent, especially their father? Then it seems that they try it with their SM.
Some kids/adult kids cause so many problems in their fathers life and I just haven't gotten to the bottom of why. Are they jealous of their father and SM's relationship? Are they just miserable beings? Or is there a personality disorder at play somewhere in the mix that another board member suggested? Do these kids/adult kids try to control other family members like grandparents , aunts, or uncles or is this control issue limited to their fathers and SM?
What do other family members think of this situation? What about friends? I don't know about other people's families but in my family the men parent their kids. The men aren't afraid to say that if their kids/adult kids disrespect them or their SO, x,y, and z will happen. Thing is, their kids/adult kids already know this so none are in stephell.
So what is the problem that some fathers give their power away to their powerless kids? What's the reason that some SMs tolerate this poor behavior? Did the fathers or SMs come from a family with predominantly women running it so the fathers didn't learn to be men and the SMs didn't have a good example of what a man was?
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They are afraid of losing there kids.
They think unless they kiss there as*s. The kids will have nothing to. Do with them. So they try to be friends not parents with them. You know " it's between us, don't tell SM". Let's go out back and have a few drinks !! Let me cover for you. You are my number one and I am your number one,
They think unless they kiss
In my experience, the men parent and the bonds they have with their kids/adult kids are stronger. They do alot of things together like travel, cook outs, fishing, golfing etc. and SMs or their adult kid's spouse are not excluded. Whenever a man in my family is sick,, say had surgery or something, their kids/adult kids help out. Parenting doesn't equal nothing to do with them. Instead it resulted in love and respect.
Besides these fathers you described don't realize kissing a$$ doesn't work? In times of need, alot of these kids/adult kids won't even be there for their fathers. Smh
Thoughts
With my SO it boils down to a couple of things:
1. His upbringing - his father was a super-strict ex-marine. SO's parenting style, even when he was married to Darth Vader (BM) went the polar opposite - very permissive, few if any rules, no responsibilities for the children. I think he feared his father a bit so wants to ensure his kids don't fear him hence he is a pushover as his children have no accountability for their actions.
2. PAS - After SO and split from Darth Vader, she immediately did major PAS on the 3 kids. His oldest daughter remains PAS'd out and his middle son has re-engaged but only on a superficial level (usually wanting $). Bratty McBratFace was the only child who resisted Darth Vader's PAS so SO feels guilty about what Bratty went through and feels like Bratty 'chose' him and suffered consequences from Darth Vader. So he feels guilt about what Bratty endured and goes overboard to not upset her.
At least that is my observation of the dynamic. It is also why he sometimes ignores Bratty's actual behavior as he is focused on side-stepping to not upset her.
Caninelover, the names you
Caninelover, the names you came up with for them are hilarious. Lol.
But seriously, these men don't realize that no matter what they went through in life they still have to parent their kids? Their lack of parenting is damaging to all involved, including future spouses the kids may have once they become adults.
Thanks :)
It constantly amazes me how optimistic SO remaims about Bratty's future when all signs point to Loserville. Probably guilt-driven magical thinking because the truth hurts.
Yeah it's like they want to
Yeah it's like they want to waive a magical wand and make their kids all glorious. SMH. They need to parent them.
Unequivocally yes, they are
Unequivocally yes, they are afraid of their kids.
In my case, DH admitted that he was afraid that one random day his kids would just stop loving him. I don't know where that comes from -- he says he wasn't a very present Dad because of all the turmoil with BM so he checked out. I wasn't around so don't know. But he carries a lot of guilt.
I had cause to make DH more afraid of losing me than of losing his adult kids, and for the most part our life is calm now. There have been a few instances, though, where his kids still try to control what he does. As long as it doesn't affect me, have at it. When it does, choose between making me mad and making one or both of the skids mad. Choose carefully.
I don't know about the skids' relationship with their BM. But I DO know that SD in particular likes to control everyone's life, so it's not just DH.
In my case, DH admitted that
I don't really get that fear. Doesn't he love himself enough to know if they stopped loving him it wouldn't be the end of the world? Kids love isn't magic. In fact a well-known psychologist said something like when kids become adults if they want to walk away from a parent who wronged them or who they perceived wronged them they have ever right to do so. However, she said what the adult kid doesn't have the right to do is manipulate, use, and hold the parent emotionally hostage for life.
The other issue is the
Bpdhell your entire comment was insightful. Especially the part I quoted above. So do they start manipulating their parents at a young age say 7 or 8 or does this start in their teenage years? I now know that if a father allows his kid to lie and manipulate him without addressing things, it is a red flag. I never knew it was an indication of a personality disorder though. I have never seen someone go into extreme denial about their kids troubled behavior the way my ex did.
If this is a dysfunctional family dynamic then that means that in alot of cases we read about here there is little to no hope of change. It's sad for so many SMs who don't know how deep these issues run.
Do you think the parents do this because they don't know what to do or because this is the easiest thing for them to do?
Maybe the problems were
Maybe the problems were already there before the bio parents split? Like even if they had stayed together the kids would still have the power, but it gets amplified when parents divorce. It's lack of parenting. Mine divorced when I was twelve. My siblings were teenagers. It never once occurred to me or them to try and control my dad. He in fact told me no more than once. I was disappointed but that was it. I moved on. He and my mom parented us though, and that continued after the divorce. I guess he understood that you couldn't worry about making your kids mad, it was going to happen sometimes, and he also knew that we would love him no matter what. He was still very present after the divorce. I didn't know or want to know what he would do if I disrespected him or my step mom. Not to mention what my mom might do. They raised me to respect my elders. End of story.
Some of these Disney dads need to get a grip. If the kids don't want anything to do with him because he tells them no, then the relationship isn't real in the first place. Whether it's from him not being very present or Mom alienating them, him giving them what they want no matter what is not going to make things better.
Petspoiler, the way you were
Petspoiler, the way you were raised sounds similar to how I was raised. My friends were also raised like that. You don't disrespect parents or their spouses. It was shocking to me that my ex pretended to be this overly strong man, but when it came to dealing with his adult kids he was a fool and a coward. A complete mess.
I agree with this 100%. In fact I told my ex something very similar including that he can't purchase love. Their dysfunction runs deep. These men just shouldn't be dating or having relationships if they are incapable of having healthy adult relationships because of their past lives. Just outright selfish.
my SO's kids were just taken
my SO's kids were just taken off to another state and he hardly saw them. Now that SD is living in the home she does as she pleases as he "is making up for lost time" and "doesn't want to cause more heartache by fighting" "they had a bad enough life" they will leave me and go back to BM if they don't like it here" etc etc......thing is he was brought up in a very strict respectful home yet it is ok now for kids to disrespect him, me and his family including GP.
This is the million-dollar question that haunts the rest of us at night?
How old are his kids as in
How old are his kids as in are they minors or adults?
He can allow them to disrespect him if he wants to but I would be gone. As far as them disrespecting you, and his family including GP, no way in hell would I tolerate that. If they don't know how to respect others they need to stay the hell away.
If he isn't willing to set the standard for how you are treated then you have the right to set that standard yourself. You teach people how to treat you, especially when they act like they have no common sense.
There are a ton of reasons
There are a ton of reasons why this happens:
1.) Courts rule unfavorably towards fathers more often, even when the BM is clearly the crazy one. Some fathers give up knowing that their kids will turn into their ex, feeling powerless to do anything about it, and just want to enjoy the time they have left before their kids go full psycho.
2.) Disordered kids are hard to parent. Whether the kids have a genetic reason or it stems from trauma caused in their childhood, it doesn't change that it's hard. Support services, at least in the US, are hard to find and expensive. Going back to courts, you often have to have both parents on board for treatment, and that can be tough if you're dealing with a disorded ex. Kids with mental health issues are just as scary as adults with them and sometimes there isn't much that can be done because the resources literally don't exist.
3.) Disordered adults also exist. Men are less likely to seek help for their mental health issues. Sometimes they're just as messed up as their kids.
4.) We learn from our parents. If our parents' sucked and we didn't put in the work to be better, we suck. And parenting resources, much like mental health resources, are hard to come by unless you just want to read a book or join a forum. That works for a lot of people, but not all.
5.) Some people think permissive parenting is good parenting, same as helicopter parenting or super strict parenting. It's not good and it needs a balance, but it's hard to convince someone who thinks they are doing it "right" and who thinks they are raising their kid "right" to change what they're doing.
6.) It's just laziness. They never actually wanted to be a parent, but had kids anyway. They just don't care and would rather avoid drama with people they don't care about.
Usually it's not any one given thing. It's a mash-up of several factors. The more factors there are, the worse it is. Here, we tend to see folks dealing with a multitude of bad factors, so it ends up being the "worst of the worst" that parenting has to offer post-divorce.
That was well said lieutenant
That was well said lieutenant_dad. I can see where one of the issues you numbered could create stephell. But my ex's situation seemed to be composed of all 6. No wonder I came down so hard on him for bringing his bs to me. My ex and his adult kids have so many issues, like nothing I have ever seen. And to think in his fantasy world he actually thought we would be one big happy family. Smh. They have no clue what happiness really is. Ridiculous he still hasn't went away. Smh.