Update on DH never wanted our kids
Well we met with our therapist this morning... So, she thinks DH "didn't mean it" and I should "try and let it go" and that he probably said it because he is hurting, and frequently gives me the silent treatment because he is hurting and this is his way of processing pain and shame. Hmm. So if he hit me, or cheated on me, that would also be "something he didn't mean" or "from a place of hurt" ??
DH denied being unhappy but admitted a lot of the time he feels angry and doesn't know how to express it. No mention of the fact that he chose this life as much as I did. He denied there was any significance in saying that thing about our kids other than to use it as an example of "sacrifices we have to make in a marriage" and maybe a "poor choice of words."
He did admit he gives me the silent treatment, and said (Moe, you called it) he has a picture in his mind of what "family life" is supposed to be and that my doing things for myself like running or going to bookclub just violates that picture.
And he went on to say that he is "walking on eggshells", since he thinks I believe he loves SD more than the other 2 children, and that I am constantly watching and judging him as a result. (where could I possibly have gotten that idea?)
Awesome. Did I just get gaslit?
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I don't like your therapist!
I don't like your therapist! :O
Sounds like hooey to me.
Sounds like hooey to me. Silent treatment is passive aggressive manipulations.
Find a new therapist!!!
Find a new therapist!!!
This. No therapist worth $5
This. No therapist worth $5 an hour (bet she charges more) is going to excuse the silent treatment and tell you to accept it.
I agree. You need a new
I agree. You need a new therapist.
I don't disagree with the
I don't disagree with the therapist that he's probably giving you the silent treatment because he's hurt. And I guess it's good for you to know that it's from hurt as opposed to something else. But did she then go on to let him know that the silent treatment isn't the appropriate way to deal with being hurt, and let him know they'd be working on other ways to deal with his "hurt"? If not, I'm not sure what good the therapist is going to do you. I'm thinking you could have guessed all that stuff on your own.
You need to leave with those
You need to leave with those two children he doesn’t want and make a decent life for them. Living with a father who wishes they’d never been born is toxic. Rescue those babies.
He needs to pick that lip up
He needs to pick that lip up before he steps on it!
You either accept what he
You either accept what he said at face value and let it fester until it is a huge stinking hole in your marriage or you accept that he was frustrated and trying to get back at you in the heat of the moment and try to find a way to move on.
If you want to continue in the relationship then I see no value in holding on to and dissecting his careless and hurtful words.
Your husband was wrong to say what he did. He is wrong to give you the silent treatment. He has a lot to learn about how to fight fair and how to resolve conflicts in a healthy way. But ultimately if you two want to get past this you will need to accept that he said what he did to hurt you and not because he meant it.
Did you read her last blog?
Did you read her last blog? The man is "hurt" because she doesn't want to give up running and bookclub as he asked her to do. That's why he said that vile thing he did.
I read it. My point is that
I read it. My point is that if she can’t get past his words there is no point in continuing the therapy. They might was well start talking to the lawyers because the relationship will not get past those words if they have meaning behind them. If she wants to continue and improve the relationship then she needs to find a way to get past his words. The therapist is trying to save the relationship so she is pointing these things out. It is up to the op to decide what she wants for her future.
Isolation is the first step
Isolation is the first step in abuse.
Make the victim feel alone in the world.
The silent treatment is also emotional abuse.
THANK YOU. Good Lord. Fire
THANK YOU. Good Lord. Fire the therapist. Anyone that doesn't recognize emotional abuse needs to be reported to the damn state.
Hell, how insane
Did you read her last blog?
Did you read her last blog? The man is "hurt" because she doesn't want to give up running and bookclub as he asked her to do. That's why he said that vile thing he did.
While I don't agree at all
While I don't agree at all with your therapist basically giving him a pass to be a big man baby.....
Do you think when he says that he resents you doing these things because it means that he gets stuck taking care of the kids for several hours a week when he would rather be doing other stuff (never mind that it might be stuff with SD...lol).
Were kids a must have for you that he reluctantly agreed to? Did he think you would take on the main responsibility of caring for them then?
I guess in his eyes.. he "let" you have two kids.. but expected that you would be the one to give up other past times to care for him and he wouldnt be expected to be as accomodatiing. So when you go running 3-4 hours a week plus go to a book club plus go to dinner and swim lessons.. it all adds up to 8 or more hours a week that he no longer sees you.
I am not saying it's right that he punishes you the way he did.. but he is doing a poor job of explaining what is frustrating and working to find a solution.
The bottom line may be that he feels he already had enough child care responsibilities with his daughter and has that COD guilt going on.. so when he sees her wants to be more focused on her. He thought you would take the lead with the other kids. He didn't see his life changing with the addition of kids.. but it has.. because.. it will right? He didn't have a realistic view of what adding two kids to the household would mean for everyone.
I really don't like passive aggressive silent treatment for any length of time.. in the short term to prevent saying something you will regret (like he did) fine.. but you have to be able to come back and TALK through these issues if you want to remain in a partnership with someone.
Yes, wow, I really agree with
Yes, wow, I really agree with a lot of what you're saying here. I hadn't seen it this way before, but maybe what he's pouting about is my lack of time and interest right now in caring for HIM. Until now I thought he was mainly pouting over HIM having to care for THEM. I think he wants more attention and more praise from me, and in a way, more than I have left to give. Sometimes I find my husband more exhausting than the children. He wants so much validation - he wants to be the center of my universe. I love him and his many talents but I really don't have the energy to feed his ego the way he wants me to day in day out.
He at first refused, then reluctantly agreed to give me the 2nd baby (an oops baby in truth) but he told me he definitely wanted to have "A" baby with me before we got married, but then we had a weird moment when dating that he kind of backtracked from that and said he would be fine if we only had SD. So I think in a way he meant what he said with the "never wanted them" comment.
And indeed I do and have always done, almost all of the childcare for the other 2, plus work 30 hrs per week. We each have a weekday off in addition to weekends off. My bookclub is once per month or less. The running is time in which we would all be just "hanging out" at home, and often when the little ones are napping. I signed the kids up for swimming and that will mean both kids come with me so he would actually be kid-free for awhile on those days (except for sd, and he seems to crave alone time with her anyway, at least, sometimes.)
Anyway, I haven't been burdening him with the care of these kids- but maybe you're right- his resentment is of me being involved with/tied up in other things besides him. Our kids are a symbol of that.
The thing that frustrates me about though is when we were dating, he wanted SD involved in EVERYTHING. He couldn't stand when we went away on trips or weekends without her. (Guilt?) So I figured he was just a really loving, involved dad who didn't particularly value 1:1 adult time.
THanks so much for responding and sharing your insights.
Are you sure you're not a
Are you sure you're not a therapist? I think this is spot on.
Viva la revolution!
Viva la revolution! Seriously, there would be so much more ball sucking if these husbands would just shape up in the first place.
It’s more than just some
It’s more than just some cruel words that he said. It’s his actions. Bad enough how he treats his wife, but his inability to even want to connect with his two youngest children is vile.
~blows a kiss to
~blows a kiss to StepRightOff~
The minute you stop running
The minute you stop running and going to the book club DH will lose interest in you. Men only think they want to control everything their woman does but when it actually happens they get bored. Like most things step related this is a *damned if you do damned if you don't* situation.
Your options are stop running and reading then get out of shape and boring; or keep running and reading, stay fit and mentally sharp. DH is going to be a noob either way so do what makes you happy.
I agree. It’s lose-lose if I
I agree. It’s lose-lose if I give up everything I love that also gives me confidence and an interesting life. No point in that. Better to keep doing it and accept the “punishment”.
So, to deal with the silent
So, to deal with the silent treatment, my BFF dated a narcissist for 4 years. He would give her the silent treatment anytime he wanted to control her or her behaviour.
She would call me every time time he did it.
She’d say “Yeah, he’s not talking to me and so I thought I’d call you.” We’d chat about all kinds of things, nothing about him. She’d sit right there beside him talking to me about her day, the kids, her job! Whatever.
It got him very agitated. You see it backfired on him. He’d complain that she wasn’t talking to him, she’d say you won’t talk back!
Plus, narcissists act like they don’t care what others think about them but they actually care a great deal. He hated me knowing that he was giving her the silent treatment. He wanted everything to look like her fault.
This is funny advice and I
This is funny advice and I realize kind of sad at the same time- thanks for sharing it because the next time it happens I’m totally doing this. He does get away with this behavior because he only does it in front of me. He desperately needs others to see what a great and amazing guy he is. Part of the difficulty in this is even my sister thinks he is the best guy ever- she hasn’t quite believed me when I’ve told her some of the behaviors he throws at me.
In fact if we have people over for dinner, or a small party I can almost universally count on him changing his tune towards me immediately. That results in a much more pleasant evening than being stuck in his cold front for days. (The kids see it but no one else.) not that it’s the answer, just a lot more fun and less isolating that way.
Yes! BFFs guy was exactly the
Yes! BFFs guy was exactly the same.
Everyone thought he was such a good guy.
I was the only one with doubts because I looked up the lies he told her about who he was.
He said he was an engineer, that he’d played professional hockey, that he was a part own of an NHLteam at on time. But I also gave him the benefit of the doubt, he was so much fun to be around. He was the life of the party and everyone liked him.
He never could really control her because most of his behaviour didn’t really bother her and he had no idea how to create drama with her.
She just rode it out, if that makes sense?
He made up rude nicknames for her kids, she thought they were funny and wasn’t offended.
He said none of her friends would stick around when they quit drinking, we all stayed.
The silent treatment, she ignored him back.
It all got much much worse and he eventually laid his hands on her. That’s when she left.
Thanks for the
Thanks for the shout-out!
Sometimes counselors try to help their clients develop compassion by encouraging them to seek to understand what may have motivated the person who did them harm, and also to see that person as a whole - not as JUST someone who gives the silent treatment, for example.
And as useful and sometimes necessary as that is, there comes a point where looking backward is just an intellectual exercise.... And you need practical options.
I'd say directly to DH, "Look, I understand you're angry and lashing out. It's OK to be angry, but it's not OK to hurt me because you feel bad. I love you, I'm your partner and on your team. Why don't you go lie down for half an hour. We'll have a talk over dinner."
And I'd say to the counselor, "I understand that you want us to understand each other, and that's great - but what I think we really need is some help in stopping our pasts and our feelings from controlling our future. It doesn't bother me at all that DH gets angry, but it does bother me that he lashes out to try to hurt me. If that's something from his past, I'd like for us to find a way to help him stop that, because our future is going to be damaged, possibly permanently, by that. I want him to be happy with me and our family, and if he isn't, like he sometimes says, then we need to change things significantly. If he is happy in our relationship, but he says these things - like you said - because he doesn't know how to handle his feelings, then we both need some serious coaching from you or another counselor so that I can support him as he learns to express himself in new ways. But the blame game and excuses-excuses is over. We need to move forward in a way that is good for BOTH of us."
Crushing on moe!!! xoxo
Crushing on moe!!! xoxo
Thanks again Moe. I
Thanks again Moe. I definitely left the session yesterday wondering- so where do we go from here? I’m just supposed to let it go- and pretend he didn’t say it- though he never apologized for any of his behavior so far. He is acting more cordial but won’t engage now- just being super sweet to our little ones, whether out of guilt or competition... he seems to be “hurt” and wanting me to go to him to make this better.
dumb therapist - I wish she would have actually given us some strategies or coaching on how to resolve this. Since I’m not planning on leaving him at this point and he’s not going anywhere either. I think I was really hoping a 3rd party would point out how damaging these behaviors are- then maybe he’d gain some insight and/or feel motivated to stop doing them. Now I think he feels validated in his anger, and even somewhat in the way he communicates it, since he was “hurt.”
Therapist never touched on how hurtful his words were to me, or how hurtful the silent treatmwnt is- she told us this is both of us being too perfectionistic and not handling vulnerability well so we both should read a book called The Gifts of Imperfection. Okay I’ll read it - like I read all the marriage, stepmom, feelings books- but $50 says he doesn’t ever crack the cover. Anyway honestly too bad you’re not our therapist! Seems like we’d get a lot more accomplished. Xo
Agreed. I would be looking
Agreed. I would be looking for another counsellor, and be asking specific questions before meeting to find out how practical their help will be. However, since DH likes the support he's getting from this one, it seems reasonable to draw a line and move forward.
Or so one hopes. Ha!
Your therapist is a moron.
Your therapist is a moron. I'd find another.
I'd read Co-Dependent No More
I'd read Co-Dependent No More as a starting point. Your DH is a sad case of over-the-top passive-aggressive behaviour. Sure, it's because he doesn't have a better way to process hurt or anger, but being lovey with the littles as a dig at you is cruel - to the littles and you.
Anyway, he wants you to take responsibility for his feelings so he doesn't have to. You need to find a safe and healthy way to push back, or you need to seriously contemplate leaving. You can handle his crap, but your kids are going to be damaged by it.
My $0.02, ofc.
Your husband sounds like a
Your husband sounds like a manipulative jerk who doesn’t take personal responsibility for anything. Also, I agree with the others, you need to get a different therapist. That bit about your dh not wanting you to have your own interests outside of the house is a huge red flag.