Counselling advice to share - and will it help?
SO and I went to couple counselling today. I had been recommended this lady as someone who understands blended family issues. She was awesome. She had some really solid insights which might interest some of you. SO and I have yet to debrief following the session so tonight should be interesting when we get a chance to talk through what we were told. I worry though that we only took from it what we wanted to hear, but I felt the counsellor had the same views as me *biggrin*
Quick recap of my situtation: SO and I have 5 children between us, my 2 DDs live with us in my house, his live with BM. SD20 has been the source of all our arguments over the last 12 months. Despite not living with us she feels entitled to come and stay whenever she wants and causes disruption and chaos in the house when she does with noise and attitude. SD20 is the apple of her dad's eye and he cannot understand why I don't adore and worship the ground she walks on as much as he does.
So. He kicked off with "Unsureofthis and I argue a lot about my oldest daughter who wants to stay with us regularly because she goes to university close to our home". Counsellor chimes in with: "Oh she's an ADULT and she is a GUEST in your house." Boom. This is what I have said to him all along and time will tell if that actually sunk in because he always says that there should be the same rules for all our children and our house should be his children's home too. He started making noises to that effect and the counsellor then said "But Unsureofthis and her daughters have lived in their house for over 10 years and it is their Queendom. You cannot come in and expect to be the King with equal powers from the outset." Boom again. I honestly feel that the whole session was just complete validation of what I have been thinking, reading, saying and arguing the whole time.
Some other points she made which spoke to me were:
1. There is no biological connection to your partner’s children. There are not the same emotional triggers to someone else’s children as there are to your own. The emotional pull is not the same. This makes it easier to identify manipulation and other negative traits that a biological parent can’t see.
2. You don’t automatically like/love your partner’s children. It is a fallacy that you have to love your partner’s children or feel a connection with them. Don’t put that pressure on yourself, it is not reasonable. It is ok to not like/love your partner’s children equally. - what I heard was that it is ok for me to not like SD20 but adore SD15....
3. Kingdom. It is better to start off on an equal footing and buy a place together and move in as king and queen. As it stands, the queen (me) and princesses (DDs) have roots in the floor boards from having had a Queen’s Castle for a number of years. It takes time to invite the prince (SO) into the castle and make him king. - I didn't say this in the session but in my mind I have recently taken back the Queen crown from SD just by standing my ground.
4. Teens/young adults are narcissistic by nature. They think of themselves first and don’t care about their parents. Parents are there for money and shelter and to make life easier for them. It should even out as they get older - mid-20's (??) - This was in response to me saying that I feel used when SD just shows up when it suits her and not because she actually wants to spend time with her dad.
5. Establish boundaries. If your lifestyle does not match that of your (step)children, boundaries need to be put in place and conversations need to be had (e.g. if making noise at night does not work for the rest of the people in the household something needs to be done about it, etc) - I so hope he heard this one because that is pretty much the reason I am not happy to have SD at our house. That and the fact she is manipulative, fake and entitled.....
6. Establish expectations together for the household – for children/teens it is what do we expect from them and how do we prepare them for adult life
I know this is information that is discussed on this board a lot, but thought it might be helpful for others too. I certainly feel happier now that we have had a 3rd party intervene and stop us from spinning our wheels every time we argue about SD.
Interested in your thoughts on this. What other useful tips and snippets have counsellors provided to you in the past? And more importantly, what could I expect now - does counselling actually help this type of situation?
I think that a good therapist is worth their weight in gold.
Though they are as rare as hen's teeth.
It sounds as if you have found a good one.
The therapist that I engaged for my XW and I when I was trying to save that marriage was a life saver for me. My XW was a lost cause but Doc helped me reconnect with the man I enjoyed being.
As Doc said during my last session with her about 4mos after my XW walked out of therapy with an "I do not have a problem with sex!" and a bow legged gate from servicing any number of swinging Johnson's in the community while being completely frigid within the marriage,..... "I would not have believed you if you had told me that the sullen gloomy man who walked into my office 10mos ago was this young energetic man with the childlike zest for life that you are sitting here with me now."
Even more than 30 years later I check in with Doc every few years or so to thank her for all she represents in my life and to update her on the adventures my bride and I are living together.
My wife has also experienced great help from a wonderful therapist. She was struggling with the return to the US after many years internationally and with the pain of losing her dad. Her therapist has been a great help to her.
If both you and DH will do the work and follow the guidance that your therapist provides, you have every chance of working it all out together. SD may not catch a clue, but she does not have to. You and DH need to be on the same sheet of music and the kids have to adapt.
Good luck.
She's a keeper!
She's a keeper!
It'll be interesting to see
It'll be interesting to see if SO had the same takeaway as you did. Keep us posted.
Excellent! Please share more
Excellent! Please share more if you go again.
How did your DH take this?
"This makes it easier to identify manipulation and other negative traits that a biological parent can’t see."
How did your DH respond to this excellent piece of wisdom? I can imagine him (or my DH, for that matter) thinking, "You, counselor, are a tool. My darling child is not ever manipulative and has no negative traits."
Funny you should mention it.
Funny you should mention it. During our debrief he felt vindicated. He wasn't as blunt about denying it, more like completely disregarding the negative traits bit and he went straight to "See!! You don't understand the emotional connection I have with her because you are not her parent!". You are right in that he doesn't see anything negative with his princess' behaviour at all - because she's so manipulative and makes him feel like a king and adored.
He gaslights me something incredibly if I am to set out exactly what I see as the manipulation and negative traits. I don't say anything mean about her, only explain what I see, but he doesn't seem to understand the damage he does to our relationship when he goes on the defense and basically tells me my observations and feelings are wrong. It's fascinating.
Not "fascinating"
Double post, fat finger, sorry!
Not "fascinating"
The word you're looking for is "abusive." As in. " ... he goes on the defense and basically tells me my observations and feelings are wrong. It's abusive."
You're welcome.
By the way, I see that a few months ago you posted "Over reaction by me or will it get worse over time?" I'm guessing you can anwer that question for yourself now.
Oh yes things have certainly
Oh yes things have certainly escalated to a whole new level! He is abusive now, well and truly. He is still very subtle about it though and tries his hardest to make me doubt myself. I guess the difference now is that I can see it.
We had the debrief but I have
We had the debrief but I have been too deflated to update the post....It didn't go well at all. We have made no progress, in fact, he seems to think that the therapist backed him up. That I should just let him parent her the way he wants and that I should just back off because I don't have the same emotional triggers than he has when it comes to her. Also, he seems to have latched on to the fact that all children should be equally as welcome in the house.
I'm in the situation right now that feels like Groundhog Day; we fight about SD, then the issues go away when she’s not around, then she comes back or gets in contact and we fight again. It's a never ending cycle and it has started to border on lunacy. The issue is simple; I don't want the entitled and manipulative SD20 staying over in my house just because it's convenient for her; he is desperate for any little crumbs he can get of worshipped princess’ attention. He can't see that she takes complete advantage of us and it really irks me that she so blatantly use us, plus is rude and causes my DDs angst in the process because she's loud and inconsiderate.
He seems to think that we just need to have another talk with her about her behaviour but I am way past that. I have given it well over 12 months. A leopard doesn't change its spots. I know that she will abide by the rules temporarily but then it will be back to the same old games. My needs and wants will always come second to her needs.
He did actually talk at lenght in the counselling session about the guilt he feels about the divorce etc, so he is not deluded about the reasons he lets her get away with so much. That said, you only get one life and feel I am not living my best life because of this.
I have finally recognised that this is a stalemate situation and we should just move apart.
Good for you for recognizing
Good for you for recognizing this and dodging a big big spoiled SD bullet. If you relented on this issue, other one would have popped up and you won't be living your best life only a miserable one dictated by a spoiled 20 yr old.
Unsureofthis, how long have
Unsureofthis, how long have you been with your significant other? Do you think getting a relationship coach might be better than counseling? I have listened to a few on the Internet and some give really good advice. One I watched the other day recommends how many chances you should give a significant other to work out a dealbreaking issue depending on the stage of the relationship (such as dating phase, engagement phase, and marriage etc.). Even in marriage this particular relationship coach I think said give 3 chances (depending what the dealbreaker is) and then it's generally time to move on.
The relationship coach said animals can learn and adapt to changing circumstances, and therefore there really is no reason that a human can't . This relationship coach said there is no reason to keep going over the same issue with a person several times.
This has helped me continue to distance myself from my ex. He knew what my standards were when it came to my adult kids and his adult kids. However, he knew he didn't meet those standards yet continued to try to date me and then remain in a relationship with me. I gave him enough time and enough chances to fix the issues with his adult kids. He didn't, so as far as I am concerned his time in my life has expired. At one point he asked for x amount of more time. I decided to not give him that extra time because I felt he had a sufficient amount of time to fix those issues while we were dating and then in a relationship. Truth is he should have never dated me, knowing that he wasn't on board with the standards I set for adult kids. Given all of that, the relationship my ex and I had is over permanently and I can't think of anything that would change that.
A relationship coach is a
A relationship coach is a good idea. I will see what I can find on the topic. In my heart of hearts though I know that I have given him so many chances and opportunities to acknowledge the issues (not so much fix them, because I don't know that there is a fix) and he won't even validate my concerns. He becomes very threatening instead, which obviously is a tactic to get me to back down and lower my standards, which are already super low and involves basic manners really.
I am happy that you managed to distance yourself from your ex and were strong enough in your own beliefs to stand your ground. I need to do the same.
Also meant to say we have
Also meant to say we have been together 3.5 years. We got engaged after 2 years. I'm so glad I have cancelled the wedding.
Now all you have to do is
Now all you have to do is cancel the relationship.
I should just let him parent
Wait, isn't she 20? Shouldn't the actual "parenting" be finished? At this point isn't she an adult in charge of her own life who doesn't need parenting? No wonder she's such a brat if DH still views her as a minor child that needs parenting.
The counsellor corrected him
The counsellor corrected him during our session to say that she is an adult and a guest in our house, so he had to reluctantly agree to the term in theory, but he still refers to her as a child and that "she needs her father".
He treats SD15 like an adult, but not the one that is an actual adult. I just don't get it.
In some ways I think that it
In some ways I think that it is good that both of you felt that the therapist agreed with each of you. At least it means that neither was put off the process at the first meeting and your husband may both be more receptive to listening to the therapist in the future. If you aren't ready to throw the towel in on this relationship yet then I would give ther councilling a few more sessions to see if the therapist can start to help you two to find compromises that work for you both.
I wish had I found such a
I wish had I found such a good counsellor years ago! They are a rarity, I am so glad that there are some though, for the people that find them. Thank you for sharing the information.