It's the little things
I'm kind of surprised by how big the impact such a small thing on the surface has made. I wanted to post about it to see if there were other things like this that made a big difference to your blended family life.
I feel so much more secure and at ease today. I realize that it is because dh finally put his foot down. For as long as I've known him, SS has had a insatiable desire for money. He frequently takes cash from his dad's wallet or uses dh's cards and accounts without permission. When dh catches SS, he'll call him out on it, and at times have come down hard on SS. But dh always gives SS a second chance. I think that like any parent, he wants to give and receive trust, which is such a fundamental part of a loving relationship. I think it is very, very difficult for dh to take actions that loudly say 'I don't trust you.' So despite SS abusing his access to his dad's food delivery app (buying a whole group of friends dinner on dh's dime without asking multiple times), keeping dh's credit card and using it without permission, etc., dh will always still hand SS his card, continue to give him access to the apps, etc.
The latest incidents have had to do with dh's amazon account. No matter how many times he changes his password, and even opening up a whole new account under an obscure email address, dh's account kept getting "hacked". The last time that happened, it was on the day that SS "borrowed" dh's laptop to do homework. From what I understand, Amazon can't be hacked unless someone has your user name and password, and the only account he used this email for was amazon. What are the chances that someone could have figured that out? But unbelievably, dh never suspected SS. When I suggested that possibility, dh said, 'SS might have done that when he was younger, but I asked him and he said he didn't do it and I believe him.' Also, his delivery app. Someone had "hacked" his account and did something funky. Didn't charge food, but charged stuff on the account. Not sure what happened. I have been trying to tell dh that these things don't happen unless someone has his user name and password, and that it is very possible that it is SS doing it. Dh got mad and responded by accusing me - he said 'maybe it was you!' I told him that there is zero history of that, and why would he think it was me rather than someone who does have a history. But I think it hurts dh a lot to think that his own son who is now 18 could continue to steal from him.
But this morning, I didn't see dh's wallet on the kitchen table. He usually keeps it there out in the open overnight despite the fact that he's caught SS taking cash from it numerous times. This week, Dh also closed his amazon account, and signed up for a new delivery app and has decided not to give access to SS. It made me a breathe a sigh of relief. I do not like to see my beloved being taken advantage of by anybody, including his own son. But I also realize that by not protecting himself financially, it was also making me anxious that he wouldn't protect us financially if SS ever tried to take advantage of us. Dh's family has a history of dementia, and he is the power of attorney for his own parents. I would absolutely dread dh entrusting our finances to SS. So the actions dh took this week is alleviating a lot of my anxiety. I didn't even realize how anxious I was. But I'm finding it a lot easier just to shrug SS's behaviors off today because rather than SS presenting as a threat, his disrespect or whatever is just merely annoying.
But just yesterday, dh gave SS his bank card to go buy something at the store. SS calls to ask for the pin. I could see dh hesitate, but he did give it to SS. Oof! I think dh was counting on SS using the card as a credit card which would not require the pin. It made me anxious again, but that must have been why dh put his wallet away last night. I hope that this is the start of dh being smarter about how he deals with SS. I understand dh wanting so much to trust his own son and for the huge sense of betrayal he would have to face if he had to acknowledge SS's actual actions. But I'm hoping that there is still a way to build trust without opening himself up to being used.
You're living my life
My SS62 is a grifter and thief. I describe her that way since she has, and would still if possible, do the very same things. She has, in the past, abused our credit card, stolen my jewelry and silver and stolen money from both of us. Like your DH, mine is sensitive and can't stand to hear the facts. He loves her, makes every excuse, accuses me of forgetfulness and blindness, etc. She has had police trouble, nothing serious yet, but nothing is beyond her. She will do anything for money.
We ended up separating finances. Because she is on disability, we subsidize her living expense but I watch our finances like a hawk and not one penny more than we agreed to goes from the family money. From his "allowance", he responds to her additional cash emergencies but thats on him.
My charge is thru my bank and I DAILY check it. We agreed, at the time we agreed to subsidize her, that she wouldn't be allowed to charge anymore but I know he is weak. When she is coming over, I hide my purse and I notice he hides his wallet.
The sad part is that his loyalty to her has estranged him from some family members. All 4 of our other kids avoid her but she has 3 adult kids of her own. When 2 of them recently turned down her latest cash "emergency", he stopped talking to them. He's 86 so I understand he feels it's time to unload the burden onto them. They, understandably, dont want it.
Good luck with your SS. As you can tell, this problem can be a lifelong thing. Expect anything and be prepared.
My dh and I have separate
My dh and I have separate finances, and SS has access to none of my accounts. The only thing that SS has done was take cash from my wallet, but I have since kept it hidden.
What do you think is the reason your dh enables the grifter? I think for my dh, it's a mix. When he was a tween, his parents got divorced and he definitely acted out and went wild. At 13, he was actually arrested for dealing drugs (he didn't really have drugs; he was just acting tough). It seems to me that the cop was just trying to teach him a lesson. But he was scarred from that and also, after that, the folks in his small town all shunned him. Dh still gets emotional when he talks about being labeled "the bad kid". I feel like that's the biggest reason why dh wants to make sure SS "is believed" and that SS feels that someone is on his side and doesn't think he's "bad". For dh, his mom played that role. No matter who judged him, she always defended and supported dh. I think that meant the world to him, and in some ways, I can understand why dh would want to protect and defend his son against others who might be quick to judge him. I do know that SS feels unconditionally loved by dh and maybe no one else in the world. Btw, my dh has a conscience and is considered very upstanding today.
Why
I think DH86 enables SD62 out of a sense of duty. He was/is a strong, responsible father. He also feels sorry for her. He recognizes her poor judgement but that's just more reason for him to support her.
In the early days, he felt his split with BM affected SD most so he spoiled her to compensate. She was quick to take advantage of being "poor SD". Nowadays, she's "poor, sick SD".
That makes a lot of sense. My
That makes a lot of sense. My dh has a strong sense of duty too, and his ex and SS exploit that. Even if they don't keep their word, he feels duty bound to keep his. I personally appreciate that, but he has to use caution when it is used by exploitive people.
Yeah, I understand how indulging is used to compensate. For my dh, he works really long hours and couldn't always be there physically for SS, so in some ways, SS taking money from him almost feels like he's making up for deficits in other arenas.
Quid pro quo has a place in
Quid pro quo has a place in skitchy familial relationships. The quality side of the equation has a duty only if the shit side delivers to standards of behavior and standards of performance.
IMHO, this has to be an absolute in all things toxic opposition related. Perform or get nothing but exactly what the CO stipulates. Not one pico-Cent more. Perform, and get only what the CO stipulates though with less pain involved for playing games. Anything above that specific level, is entirely up to the quality side and has nothing to do with duty. It has only to do with reality which aleviates any delivery to duty if reality does not justify the delivery of what would otherwise be duty. The challenge is for the duty bound to get over themselves and engage in reality and not the fantasy. Someone delivering on a false sense of duty to someone who does not earn that duty is naive at best and toxic to the naive and their SOs at worst.
IMHO of course.
"They" perform then the one of honor, character, and duty responds accordingly. If they do not perform, the one of honor, character, and duty also responds accordingly. To the actual performance of the shit side. Deviate from standard, the quality side owes nothing but consequences for the shit choices of the shit side. There is no duty on the quality side without performance from the ... other.... side.
KISS
Come on. Now.
DH knows what his DS is doing. He's going along with it. He's putting up a good fight for you against DS. and you are buying it.
" JUST WAIT UNTIL NEXT TIME. YOU WILL GET A GOOD PUNISHMENT ". In all this tine was SS Ever punished ?.. giving a credit card pin to SS is like giving gasoline to a fire bug.
It's all show for you. Keep us informed, please prove me wrong.
Yes, the last time SS held on
Yes, the last time SS held on to a credit card (he took it to get a hair cut and just never gave it back to dh), he had it for a month and charged maybe about $50 worth of food and snacks. It wasn't even that much, so I think it was just the convenience, and also SS wouldn't charge large amounts anymore because he knows that he will get caught. Dh got so mad once he found out that he made SS pay back every dime, and plus he told SS that he couldn't go on a trip that he had planned with his friends which made SS cry and sob. But then dh restored it. Ugh.
That was very harsh, I thought. But SS had taken his card before and charged about $800 worth of fortnite stuff on it, $20-100 bucks at a time. You can read about how fortnite is like gambling for kids. Anyway, dh made him "work that off", and was convinced that SS learned his lesson, and that he was so sorry that he would never do it again in a million years. So when he did it again last year, that's when dh came down super hard.
But I have a question for you. What do you think dh is doing for my benefit? You think he's just talking the talk, but really wants SS to get away with it?
He needs to stop giving out
He needs to stop giving out access to his funds. If he wants to give his money, at least ensure that it is a controlled amount.
Definitely. As I said, it
Definitely. As I said, it seems to me dh is taking stronger steps to do just that. In terms of access to his accounts, he has limited online access, but has still given SS his card for immediate needs.
With the hacking stuff, dh closed the accounts to stop the hacking, but he is still unable to consider that it might be SS. I think it would be hard for dh to think that SS would go to that extent to take money from him. Dh would tolerate SS taking cash from his wallet here and there. But for SS to learn about some scheme to take money stealthily from dh, that would be a bridge too far, and dh cannot even go there mentally. For SS, it's pefect because as long as there is plausible deniability, he knows dh would not accuse him without definitive proof.
I'm driving myself crazy trying to figure out the dynamics of why all of this is happening. With my BS it's easy. He won't even charge things that I explicitly gave him permission to without double checking. BS also balks if he thinks something is too expensive. When he was 10, he apparently really wanted a Ninentendo DS for Xmas, but never asked for it because he said that he didn't want me to spend too much on him. I just can't understand how SS could want to exploit and take advantage of the one person in this world that has always been on in his side.
If DH had clarity, the SKid
If DH had clarity, the SKid would not have h is credit card... again.
Daddy is playing smoke and mirrors for your benefit and to deflect reality.
IMHO of course.
Your SS is a thief and any
Your SS is a thief and any access to anything should go on full lockdown. Keeping one's wallet out of the sight of a thief isn't putting one's foot down. Confronting the thief and not allowing access to anything--personal laptops, credit cards, accounts, etc.--would be the natural and reasonable thing to do. I understand why you've been feeling anxious. SS's behavior is outrageous and it appears that your DH has been enabling this awful behavior. There was no reason for him to give SS his PIN.
Does SS work?
Yeah, I cringed when dh gave
Yeah, I cringed when dh gave him the pin. But on the other hand, you physically need the card to use it, and dh is now vigilant about getting the card back. SS definitely doesn't want to get caught again, and he knows how to get away with iffy behavior that won't result in a complete shut down. Him charging food for his friends, for example, he knows he can get away with it because dh sees his friends and one of the only good things in SS's life, so dh might grumble, but he would, at other times, treat the boys himself. My point is that SS won't draw cash out in an obvious way. But I do think he's responsible for all of the "hacks".
SS does have a PT job, or at least he did, and he always has side hustles. For example, he bought countefeit clothes online and sold them as real. Right now, his side hustle is selling fake ids. I of course have tried to convey how wrong I think that is. I asked dh what he thinks about the poor kid who bought a hoodie from SS thinking it was the real deal? Dh said that the kid (who is probably rich) wouldn't know the difference anyway. But dh refused to help SS sell counterfeits after he learned that he inadvertently helped SS sell that hoodie, so dh does think it's wrong too. But he just cannot bring himself to condemn SS's actions (see above for why).
Here's another weird thing, Dh gives SS $40 a week in allowance despite SS earning money from jobs and hustles. I totally object to that, but I don't say anything. In any case, I get the feeling SS stopped working though he isn't telling us that. SS has hated every job he's had. But I have to give him credit, he has had at least 3 jobs. Btw, SS is very social and often gets work and hustle through his friendships.
So, SS has a criminal mind..
So, SS has a criminal mind...to rip people off by selling counterfeit clothes is just rotten (and illegal). That your DH supports or excuses this makes no sense. And now fake ids? What if some kid buys alcohol with one of the fake ids and ends up killing someone while driving drunk? Who do you think the kid would point the finger at? It may not be news to you, but something is wrong with this kid. He sounds like a sociopath. And this is the kid who wants to bring his friends to your home?! Please be careful. I'd assume his friends are people like him. What will it take for your DH to wake up?
Thanks MorningMia. You hit on
Thanks MorningMia. You hit on two main ways that I feel gaslit in regards to SS. First is making myself feel guilty for being judgmental against SS. Instead of getting affirmation that OF COURSE it's wrong to sell counterfeit clothes. I get from my dh who is motivated to downplay how bad SS's behaviors, that I'm the problem for judging him so harshly. But of course I would feel angry when I hear SS crow about how smart he is for duping someone into pay multiples more for a piece of clothes.
What also gaslights me to no end is the fact that almost without exception, SS's friends are very sweet, smart, hard working, and courteous. So all of these good folks love SS, so I must be the bad one. They all met when they were in middle school. Their parents actually despise SS (even to this day) because SS used to bully one of them, and in general was a lot of trouble. SS was even sent home from the 8th grade overnight trip because he sneaked in a phone which was explicitly forbidden in order to show porn to his friends. Lots of other stuff. Dh and BM used to get called into the principal's office multiple times a month. Dh used to blame the school for not understanding SS enough.
Every once in while, I'll hear whispers of some drama between SS and his friends. Just a few months ago, I overheard SS trying to get one of these friends to hang out. Apparently, his friend heard some rumor about SS that must have been really bad because he refused to see SS. SS said "and if you're wrong, then that is really bad." I'm thinking WTF? If I'm innocent, I'm not making a veiled threat against my friend using some hypothetical. But because his friends are sweet, they always seem to forgive and forget. Only recently, it seems that they've been very distant, maybe over this latest drama. I don't know. But I'm not really worried about his friends except that because their still in his camp, I don't want them all over to share in SS's disrespect of me.
Anuyway, thank you. My siblings and I are a bunch of goody goodies who don't so much as jay walk. So I'm often careful not to be too judgmental. But even if dh can't own up to SS's criminal behaviors, I have to make sure to stand by my own assessments and not gaslight myself for calling a spade a spade.
Facts are neither good, nor bad, nor judgmental. They are facts
Your SS is a character void POS. You know it, daddy knows, and yes, even the POS himself knows it.
Not judgemental. Just the facts.
Fake IDs??
That document forgery, a criminal offence, at least where I am! IDs exist for many reasons, not the least for protecting minors from things that would be dangerous to them, e.g., alcohol and adolescent impulsivity don't mix well. So your DH is closing his eyes to the fact that his son is wilfully placing other children at risk for his own financial gain.
DW's sister is a Fn thief.
DW's sister is a Fn thief. To the point that DW will not set a purse down if SIL is anywhere in house or restaurant, etc.... If she can, she will take cash, credit cards, etc..... If she can't get that she goes into pout "we can't afford it, pay for meeeee, buy my starving kids lunchhhhhh, but my kids need icecweeeeeeemmmm too, whaaaaaa."
This has been my SIL since she was a teen, years before she had kids.
It has gotten to the point where no one buys for her and her family. Everyone gets their meal for their family, we all sit together, and SIL and hers sit just far enough away that everyone can see them pout but still can ignore them. It has evolved to the point where most people drive themselves and their own kids just to avoid the guilt trip, pouty crap.
SIL knows if she steals from us, I will put her ass in jail. Everyone else, just ignores it. Except for finaly my DW's Aunt. She asked DW to be her executor and DW told her that as executor she would have to sue SIL on behalf of the rest of the heirs to recover the ~$100K SIL has ripped the Aunt off for over years. So, the Will is clear. If SIL's share of the estate is less than what she has stolen, the cops get called and sued by the estate. If her share is more than what she has stolen, she gets nothing more. Very boldly stated in the Will. I told DW that I would be happy to read the Will if she cannot.
If your DH can't find the testicular fortitude to nail his shit spawn for thieving, then you do it.
I would.
In a heartbeat.
SD25 Feral Forger
So, your "d"h has been putting his wallet away? SS got his pin? Yeahhh.......
Well, OP, I certainly hope that you and your husband have separated your bank accounts, credit cards and all finances. I hope that you have life insurance on him.
Your SS has learned he can get away with anything. He has learned all the different ways to get $$ from your husband. I dont think this is going to change. SD25 Feral Forger (formerly Winona) has always been a thief. I know she hasnt stolen from me, but when she was living with Toxic Troll she stole checks and forged them and deposited them in different accounts - Kiting is what its called - and withdrew the cash. A lot of it.
SO, your husband deflected it onto you - its an effective technique used to shut you up so he can continue allowing his precious son to take his ca$h. Not good.
I do keep my finances
I do keep my finances separate. Dh has punished SS in the past, but does a lot to enable him too. Why would he want to enable SS to steal from him? Do you think that his wanting to rescue SS from his own experience of being labeled the "bad kid" explains that?
I think
I think that your husband wants to give SS money but anticipates your blocking him so this is a sneaky way of giving him the cash and not having to deal with any conflict from you.
Husband used to send $$ to Feral Forger without telling me, via zelle. He also used to/still does give cash to SD18 PPSDN but not when Im in the room...
So thats why I think hes just being a sneaker. Because thats what I have to deal with.
Dh is definitely much more
Dh is definitely much more comfortable with doling out cash to SS than I would be. I'm thinking that maybe that's none of my business and I should just protect myself...
If he's using your DH's
If he's using your DH's laptop, he doesn't need either your DH's username or password because both are recorded on his computer. His son only has to charge whatever he wants. There's no hacking because there's no need for it. Your husband is leaving everything wide open for his son. My question is, why?
Do you have thoughts as to
Do you have thoughts as to why? I explained above why I think dh wants SS to know that dh believes in him and trust him (even if maybe he hasn't earned it). Dh was traumatized at 13 when he was stigmatized by his small town for acting wild. Obviously, it's not right to pretend to be selling drugs and generally acting wild. But dh's dad had completely disappeared on him, and he was really lost and confused. I think that people turning their backs on him left him highly tramatized, so he's doing everything he can to convince himself and SS that deep down he's good. Dh wants to show SS that he continues to believe in his goodness no matter what, and I think dh thinks that this will help SS actually become good. That's what happened with him. Dh's mom is the sweetest lady ever. She always supported him and believed in his goodness, and dh did find a good path in life.
I apologize for being so
I apologize for being so blunt, but it sounds like you are making excuses for your DH while he makes excuses for his son who exhibits antisocial behavior. I get that you want to understand this. The only way you can is by having an open, honest conversation with your husband, who sounds like he's in major denial. This kid is not behaving this way and hanging out with angels.
I think back to an old friend of my husband's whose daughter was somewhat problematic (stealing, lying). Their home was broken into and all the expensive items that could be carried out were taken. It appeared to be "an inside job," and the daughter was questioned by the police. No one ever found out who did it, but it was always believed that it was some of the daughter's friends who had hung out at (and scoped out) the house.
I don't mean to be an alarmist, but this situation is concerning to me. What does your gut feeling tell you?
I think you're totally spot
I think you're totally spot on about the fact that like probably attracts like. There have been many times in SS's life when he became friendly with/ attracted to dark types - one kid cut himself, another gave himself a tattoo, another bragged about having guns, and they did pot and stuff. SS used to be really into gangster rap and Andrew Tate (still is). For awhile, SS was teetering between decency and the dark side. When I met him, he was full of rage and was diagnosed with conduct disorder. But hopefully not sounding too arrogant, I talked to dh a lot about how to parent SS, and to talk him out of the hot and cold parenting that the two of them were doing. I gradually saw SS calm down, but I think rather than learn how to be more decent, SS just has learned to use decency to become better at being conniving.
Throughout everything, SS manged to stay friends with his decent, kind middle school friends. They were always ready to forgive him and I honestly think they saved him from completely going over to the dark side. But now that they're 17, 18 years old, I think they've been more discerning in the last few years. All I know is that very recently, SS seems to be spending less time with them and starting to mention his admiration for some kids at his school that sell drugs, etc. And those kids are definitely people I wouldn't trust.
My SS went through that phase
My SS went through that phase for part of 10th grade. He had a core group of friends who were the band and theater kids. They were all great together. For a few months SS fell in with a group of edgy kids from low tier families. They were into fight club stuff, running the streets late night, etc... SS was admant that they were good kids, blah, blah, blah....
Then, he came home late one night scared to death. They had all climbed onto an Amish market roof, goofing off, and being stupid. The police were called and were centering on the Amish market from several directions. The kids all jumped off of the roof and took off running in every direction. SS was not caught. He never again engaged with that group of kids. That night scared the shit out of him.
He recentered on his usual group of friends.
The next year we sent him to Military School. He kept the same friends while he was away at school. He would come home from breaks and they would all get together. When he came home for his last semester of HS, they invited him to Prom and all hung out together. We moved about 50 miles away after he left for Miltary School. When he came home he was at our new local HS and not at the one where his friends were.
Military school was in part due to the short stint he had with the scum kids.
Though he has lived the challenges that comes with a poor choice in friends, he is an eternal empath and sadly ODs on the Hope-ium hard when it comes to his periodic dive into the scummy friend pool. Except with his SpermClan. They are the Nar-can of his empathy for scummy people. He gives them no tolerance or quarter.
SS would absolutely love it
SS would absolutely love it if his group of friends and he were involved in an incident where the police had to be called (as long as he didn't get caught). I think it shows that your SS has a stronger moral compass. Also, I think my dh would have a giggle about it too, which I don't think helps.
Only idiots have this happen
Only idiots have this happen more than once with the same thief.
Selective idiocy if that.
Selective idiocy if that. Blind and deaf also.
Time for a call to LEOs to
Time for a call to LEOs to report the product fraud, the bank to report the card stolen, and to give them all the character void SS's name. Anonymous calls to the LEOs of course.
Ohhhhh....an anon tip about
Ohhhhh....an anon tip about the counterfeit merchandise sales and (especially) the fake ids. It depends on whether or not tryingjusttrying could put on a good game face once SS got arrested. Come to think of it, people like her SS usually stumble. He may very well get himself in trouble with the law with no help from anyone else. That is often a wake up call for delusional daddies in denial.
I read this whole thread and
I read this whole thread and saw nothing about running a credit check for DH. Make sure SS can't use dear old dad's info to open accounts. Lock it down and keep it safe.
I would hate to see DH pass and you find out he's deep in debt thanks to SS. Not a headache you need.
I, only telling you what I
I, only telling you what I would have done/would do, would be to call and make a police report if I'd been "hacked" (hacked = robbed)
after all you've been robbed in the past, why not get authorities involved if it happens again? or has your DH not filed w/ his credit company/amazon/bank any of the other times he's been "hacked". I'm guessing not because he knows exactly who the criminal is.
I agree if this happens again
I agree if this happens again and something has been stolen or hacked and money taken /stolen I would (silently) contact the police, without telling husband or SS in advance.. For obvious reasons.
I just want to say that I
I just want to say that I wouldn't call the police on SS. I don't know if I'm brainwashed by dh into thinking that SS will grow out of this, but I don't want SS to have a record. It is the case that SS tries to sell counterfeit stuff and fake ids, but he hasn't outright stolen money from anyone outside of his family as far as I'm aware. The only theft that dh has acknowledged is that SS used to take cash from his wallet. Dh tells me that he used to take cash from his mom's purse too once in a while, but that didn't lead to him turning into a criminal.
Sorry if I'm resistent to advice. I'm still in the process of figuring out how to navigate a blended family life which includes people who act in ways that I would never tolerate in my bio family. I wouldn't cause the drama that calling the police would inflict for what SS has done.
Btw, it was just a one off that dh hid his wallet. It's back out on the kitchen table every night, full of cash waiting for SS to steal. But maybe I'm wrong. And even if I'm not, it is dh's money and son, and I don't have to stick my nose into it.
I think that your SS doesn't
I think that your SS doesn't need anyone calling the police on him. He has an entitled criminal mind, and that will catch up with him. Selling counterfeit items and creating and selling fake ids are both illlegal. Stealing from his father, along with the other in-home thieving nonsense shows that he has an extremely questionable character. Most kids do not do this.
If you weren't concerned, I don't think you would have posted about any of it. Your gut tells you what is going on and what you think of it, so you don't need to take anyone's advice or suggestions. It's about how you feel, how comfortable you are, and if you're ok basically turning a blind eye to all of it (which is an option!). On one hand, you really can think: Ok, DH, I don't give a crap what and how often he steals from you--and detach from all of it. Tell your husband not to even tell you about it. As for SS's other activities, you can shrug and figure it will all catch up to him...or not. You really do have choices and do what is best for you. It might take a while to decide and you can run things/ideas by all of us here. Apparently, your DH feels like it's ok that his kid takes money from his wallet.
Thanks Morningmia. It already
Thanks Morningmia. It already helps immensely to get feedback that corroborates my sense that this is so outrageously wrong. It is so wrong that SS would dupe people, even his own friends and acquaintances to make a few extra bucks. To me, it is such an act of betrayal for SS to steal from his parents to try to bribe his friends. It is not good for his moral development, and how could he feel good about himself at the end of the day to violate his parents' trust for such little gain? His parents need to sit him down, confront his shady choices, his lying, his underdeveloped conscience and try to guide him and to talk about empathy and why it's important to act in the world to benefit not harm others. Etc., etc. I know I sound like I'm making excuses for SS and dh iin my other posts, but in a sense, I'm trying to get feedback about dh's reasonings for his approach, and whether there is some validiity to it.
By the way, I fear that SS is turning into a pathalogical liar. That's just one more layer. But it is eerie being around someone who lies about the smallest thing. I walked into the house and saw SS through the sliding doors in the yard, and he was vaping. I could see the vape smoke rise up pretty thickly. Dh was not there; it was clear that SS waited until his dad was upstairs to run out for a vape. In a conversation 10 minutes later, SS told us a story about how his friends snuck vapes into prom, and dh joked that SS must have too. SS says without skipping a beat, "Nah, I don't vape". Dh didn't say a word, but later told me that he was pretty certain SS was still vaping. Is dh not concerned about these lies?
I think that dh recognizes that there is nothing he can do to change SS's character at this point, so he's just casting it in the most favorable light as possible, and diminish how truly bad it is. I think you've imparted as much wisdom as you could. In the meantime, thank you all for your much needed feedback. Now I have to figure out how to apply them within my own situation and parameters.
It's difficult to call out a
It's difficult to call out a skid, especially in front of a delusional parent, as you don't want to enter a territory where it can openly become the parent and skid against you--there could be ugly fireworks. Skids depend on an unspoken agreement that SM better not say one word. I've always said that indecent people rely on the decency of others to keep doing what they're doing.
In a normal world, you could have laughed and said, "Really? You don't vape? What was that tower of smoke I saw coming out of your mouth in the backyard while your dad was upstairs?" and shake your head.
I came back at my skids a few times through the years, but not nearly enough. They came to believe that my silence equaled weakness. I was at the edge last fall when my husband had surgery and the two skidturds came to "help." It was such a freaking nightmare, and I felt like an idiot thinking that they, now well into adulthood, would behave like anything other than the poop-throwing unevolved primates they are. At one point, SS, who often lies about what he's going to do, said, "Dad! [not Dad and Mia], I'm going to make you a gourmet meal!" I said, "Yea, I'll believe that when I see it!"
Meanwhile, SS was taking DH's credit card (with DH's drug-induced permission) to pick up groceries/food for the household under the guise of helping, but he would primarily purchase what HE wanted, top-of-the-line expensive products (SS arrived at our home with thousands of dollars worth of toys/equipment that he magically could afford, but kept saying he was "broke"). Although he was "helping," he was often out in DH's car getting tickets via traffic cameras. He must have gone through $200+ worth of coffee while he was here (he drinks it all day) and never replaced it. In fact, he had his own special stash that he kept in the guest room. He'd sometimes get it out, make coffee for himself, and then put it back in hiding. But I digress! lol! *diablo*
Later, after I had an outburst, SS, in front of SD, said, "We know you are stressed. It's got to be hard--all of this and having strangers in your house." I replied, "You aren't strangers. You are weirdos." I did not add, "And you are never stepping foot in this house again." :)
That is a really helpful
That is a really helpful observation to make explicit - SS probably knows he can count on my silence because I don't want to cause trouble with dh. When I walked into the house and saw him vaping, he didn't see me at first, but turned around and saw me through the sliding doors. His look was like he was surprised and not happy to see me. It could be that he looked that way because he was generally just not happy to see me. When he's here, he'll do all sorts of stuff to isolate dh from me, so that he could talk his ears off. Or he knew that I saw him vaping,. Either way, he gave no indication that I just saw him vaping when he stated so matter of factly that he didn't. It's almost like I don't even matter.
Your situation with your SKs sounds kind of crazy. But I was struck that the SS offered to make his dad/you guys a meal, and there seems to be a modicum of self-awareness in his comment that they are "strangers". I guess that implies that they are not your family. I feel that the dynamic between me and SS is the same. I only call him "stepson" to someone as a shorthand for how we are related for convenience, but he has never called me stepmom, nor do I refer to him as a stepson regularly. I usually say to friends that he is "dh's son". Vice-versa, my dh refers to my BS as "Trying's son". It makes sense. I don't see a reason to force closeness where there is none. If there was any hope of being one big family early on, that's pretty much gone.
Cameras. Or... cameras and a
Cameras. Or... cameras and a biolock box on the table that wallets any anything SS can use to purchase with. When he side eyes it, say "Yes thief, that is there because of you. Touch anythign in this house that does not specifically belong to you and the police will be called."
Zero tolerance, have him arrested any and every time he plies a crime. Start with the counterfit goods and IDs. Send the proof to the police anonymously. Start feeding behavioral crap to the schools to start building the pressure on this kid and maximizing a life of abject misery for him. If he thinks being a bad boy is cool, get his ass in juvenile hall where the truly bad boys will have him snivvling in a corner crying for his mommy. Scared straight is exactly what some of these marginal spawn need to tip the scale. Which direction that scale tips, is a crap shoot but the path they are willfully going down is only going in one direction. Balancing the odds that they can make a U-turn is worth the risk.
I would.
Let daddy know that his criminal toxic son in done. Any tolerance by DH on any shit kid behavior and his spawn is gone and will be before the courts as the criminal he is.
Even in the best light, a polished turd is stull shit. Daddy needs that clarity more than the skid needs to be cuffed and hauled off ot face his choices.
Believe it or not, dh does
Believe it or not, dh does have a nest camera pointed towards the kitchen table, but where he keeps his wallet is just out of view. Once, SS's girlfriend was over, and she was not much of a fan of ours, so out of curiosity, dh used the nestcam to check in on them on the first floor where SS's bedroom is and where the kitchen table is. At one point, SS and his GF open the cabinet door which is by the table, and where dh left his wallet (out of view since we had a guest over). SS reaches into the cabinet and checks something. I'm very certain that he was checking dh's wallet for cash. Amazingly, his GF was right by him and didn't say anything. I'm certain that she wouldn't allow SS to do that to her own parents' wallets. But I think that she was fine benefitting from SS's poaching his dad. Anyway, dh saw the same thing I did, but concluded that they were just roaming around in the kitchen for no reason. I was stunned. But that is how much dh cannot face a reality in which his only son would steal from him to benefit him and his GF. I do think that dh needs clarity. I really don't know if that's going to happen any time soon though.
Time for more cameras.
Time for more cameras. Everywhere. THis kid should have no privacy other than in his room and in the toilet. Everywhere else, he is on camera being recorded.
I don't know if there is any
I don't know if there is any way to get through to your DH that denial never pays off. He will likely one day greatly regret not opening his eyes to what is really going on. It's very sad to see a man living in the present wishing he had done things differently, especially when his attention and intervention could have changed things.
Agreed. My dh is not the kind
Agreed. My dh is not the kind of person to have regrets. That's one of the things I appreciate about him. But I agree with you that he's in denial and that he could do a lot. more to change the trajectory of SS's life.
An idea. We did this with SS
An idea. We did this with SS while he was traveling to SpermLand on visitation for the last 5-ish years.
We opened a joint checking account between DW and SS that was a zero balance account that we could immediately transfer money into from our other accounts at our bank.
We could transfer money in and out of that account anytime anywhere. This was to make sure that SS had money while traveling that we could immediately drain from the account as soon as we got confirmation that his flight ahd landed.
Instead of giving this shit spawn thief an actual credit card or debit card with any choice on what he he can spend or access via card to one of your marital or individual accounts. Give him exactly what is needed on the card and then pull every Cent he does not spend off immediately and leave it at zero. No need to trust him, no need to stress over recovering a stolen or kept card.
Talk to your bank and determine what options they have.
The SpermGrandHag and SpermClan had a history of stealing cash we gave SS as travel money to fill gas tanks, buy meals for a sounder of half sibs, etc... So we investigated and landed on the zero balance immediate fund availability joint account card.
It was also a great lesson delivery channel for SpermGrandHag when she would try to pay for gas she already pumped or a meal for her and at least 4 spawn incuding SS, and maybe her other GKs as well. The raging phone calls from the pissed off Hag were outstanding moments. She stranded herself and the kids a number of times waiting for SpermGrandPa to come pay for things she tried to get paid for by our kid.
We never let another Cent of our resources be spent for their benefit after we found the card solution.
Let this kid try to sneek in buy ing meals for his buddies then get stranded trying to pay for it with a zero fund card.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Thanks for your thoughts, Rags. I appreciate the fact that you sit there and think about the problems that we post about on here. That's dedication!
That is a very clever suggestion, and in fact, SS does have a bank account which is where dh deposits his allowance. I can't see dh withdrawing anything though. But I have an update! After SS's graduation ceremony, I started hearing dh talk about cutting SS "off from the well". I'm not sure what he meant. But then yesterday, SS had texted dh for money, and dh told me that he said 'no' and that he wants SS to only spend what he's earned at work. Finally! Somehow, for dh, the idea that a high school grad is still relying on his parents for money is a big turn off. Hopefully that means that SS doesn't spend all weekend in the backyard trying to tempt dh away from me. It's so weird to be around that. SS should definitely be working. Short of that, SS should be using his time to do something productive. SS has zero interests. He doesn't play an instrument, doesn't like books, doesn't play a sport, doesn't even watch any particular shows, movies, or documentaries. My BS is kind of a geek, and is interested in history, art, tennis, and card games that he goes to to play with other people, etc. I think that having interests allows you to focus on things outside of yourself, allows you to build skills, and be a more well-rounded person. But SS doesn't have any skills beyond social skills which he is hyper good at. Instead, he seems to want to spend time focused on getting dh's attention (between that, it was his GF's), and I feel like his focusing on people as a preoccupation is unhealthy.
18 and a HS graduate. Time for the burning platform.
Start making his life one of escalating abject misery. He does not get to lounge around. He is your free labor chore bitch 24/7 until he launches. He cooks, cleans, does laundry, yard work, etc, etc, etc.... or he goes to his job. He does not get rides, etc.... He walks, rides a bike, orders and pays for an Uber, etc... when he gets home from his menial job he does chores. No herfing vapes or joints in the back yard . Every night when he crawls into bed exausted have driving test booklets and Military Recruiter booklets on his bed. Every, night. No matter what.
After HS graduation (@17) and returning from his final COd SpermLand visitation SS was our free labor source. We gave him no more money. He ate, he had a roof over his head, he had access to the basics of survival... if he did anything and everything he was assigned when he was told to have it done. If he failed, he was on the front stoop when we left for work in the AM. No access to the house, nada. If he got everything assigned done and done well, he got to do it all again the next day. Lather... rinse.... repeat. If we went out to dinner, he came with us, if we went to a movie, he came with us. If we took a trip, he came with us. He only tested us twice. The first time we woke him up, walked him out the door, and left for work. We came home and he was lying on our back covered patio. He was pissed. "I did not have any water or food or anything." Wrong kid, you see that green thing coiled by the house attached to that water tap? Water. We told you not to test us. We suggest that you not do it again. He did a few months later. That time it had cooled off quite a bit so we told him to grab his comforter off of his bed as we walked him to the door. It was a couple of months after that that he enlisted.
It took 4mos of having his tail feathers singed by the constantly stoked flames on the burning platform before our kid enlisted in the service on the delayed entry program. Once he had signed and made an adult binding comitment we bought him a car, got him into driving school, and kept our foot up his butt to get his DL. When he came home from a month of driving school hell at my parents house he immediately went back to beck and call chore bitch life until we dropped him off at MEPS to report to basic training. He was still 18 when we watched the bus fade into his future.
When he informed us that he was not ready to put in the effort for school and that it would be a waste of his time and our money he gave us a huge bump to our retirement resources. Once he enlisted we decided new reliable transportation was our final major input to his launching into adulthood. We gave it to him for Christmas that year as a combo HS graduation/enlistment/Christmas gift.
13yrs and 2.5mos later, he is less than 7 years from full military retirement. He is a man of character, maturity, standing in his profession, his community, and his life and his mom are extremely proud of the man we raised together.
I came into the StepParent world very early in his life. You entered it much later but, you can still participate in his launching.
I would sit daddy down and give him clarity that his kid is only a very few months from being out and that the abject misery of the effective parenting burning platform is starting immediately. He will likely run to mommy's place. Our kid was intelligent enough to recognize that running to SpermLand would not work out well.
My bride is actually a quality parent who understands that her duty as a parent was to create and remains to guide a self supporting viable adult of character. Sadly, not many parents recognize that as their duty at all and the number who are raising their own progeny of failed families recognize it even less frequently than the rest of the parent population.
You have a hard lesson to deliver to both of them. The primary lesson is the one your DH needs. You are his partner, he is yours, neither of you are SS's partner, he is not a party to your marriage, and he has a place that he belongs and must be kept in. He is not a child any longer. He is now a kidult and kidults do not get to sniff up to daddy, pout to daddy, interfere in daddy's home and marriage, etc.... Time for zero tolerance for that failed daddy shit spawn crap.
IMHO
Take care of you.
My oldest froze after she
My oldest froze after she graduated. She and her BF (now SIL) spent lots of time in my couch. Christmas came and I had to get real tough with her, much like Rags had too. Amazingly she got herself enrolled in college, got the job I found her and started living life. She was my first and I'm not sure how I "failed" as a parent but I corrected course and now have 3 fully launched bios, college degrees, careers , marriage/engagements and grandkids. You make life too easy and there's no motivation to launch.
They will pour, cry, whine about life being to hard but tell your DH to hang tough and think about his own adjustment to adulting. It wasn't easy then either.
You did not fail as a parent.
You did not fail as a parent. You succeeded resoundingly. Failing as a parent is a commitment to not succeeding. Failing IMHO is far more work and far more difficult than succeeding ever is. You commited to succeeding and you succeeded. You adjusted and gave your problem child what they needed to get back on track. You are successful as an adult and parent.
So are all of your kids including the one who fought you at the launch point. You adjusted and life for all of you is one of success. Not only are you a successful parent, your kids are no doubt raising quality children themselves.
Now, spoil the hell out of the GKs and send them back to their parents a worn out happy spoiled mess. Then break out the good stuff, hit a chaise lounge, and soak up some calm and prepare how you are going to torture your kids after the next visit from the GKs.
Thanks survivingstephell.
Thanks survivingstephell. Seems like you corrected course and figured out how to encourage your kids to get on the right path! Dh and I are both motivated not to have failure to launch kids, and dh will listen when he thinks that it will help to avoid that. Whether he recognizes what exactly it takes to avoid that is another matter! But dh deciding to stop giving SS allowance is a good start. It annoyed me a lot that dh was shelling out money every week to a grown a$$ man who spent his weekends sucking face with his gf and lying around.
Brutal, Rags. I don't know if
Brutal, Rags. I don't know if dh and I would have the stomach for to lock out SS. I do agree that a little hardship is not a bad thing. I endured a lot growing up, got a job at 14 and didn't stop working after that (with some breaks). I did well in school on top of that and helped out my family with chores at home. My dh also started working at a fast food restaurant at 15 or 16. But for whatever reason, when it comes to our own kids, we are super reluctant to push them too hard. But recently, I've been able to see my BS more clearly as an adult, and have been putting pressure on him to do more. I think it's human nature to take the easy road if given the option, so I do think dh and I need to step it up with both BS and SS.
It wasn't so brutal IMHO. It
It wasn't so brutal IMHO. It was firm. SS was not one to push himself and two different days sitting on the patio a little hungry did him no harm and gave him clarity that self determination comes with the responsibility to provide for himself.
He learned how not providing for himself as an adult made him subject to the authority and expectations of those providing for him.
It was not a huge or tense deal at the time. Though he sure was not happy about having the door locked behind him as his mom and I headed to work on those days.