No division of property
My SO and his EX divorced but instead of dividing their assests they placed it into a family trust with their children and parents as benefactories and they are joint trustees. My SO owns several businesses, along with the EX and has several investments that are also in the trust. The home that my SO bought after the seperation for himself to live in as well as their former marital home are in the trust. If we were to live together, the home will never belong to me even if we were married it would belong to their kids or parents if they outlived him. However, if he sells the home the money has to remain in the trust. I have told my SO that I won't live and contribute to a home that won't be mine. Also almost everthing my SO owns belongs to his kids or parents and ex IL's. I just don't know why they didn't divide things up. I feel as though if he were to die before me then I will be left with nothing because his business and its profits belong to the kids. He has recognised my concerns however to undo this he needs the agreement of the EX, parents and ex ILs as the kids are too young to make this decision. We have tried to discuss the subject with them. They think it is selfish to divide the property for future spousal benefit because the EX also personally owns things in the trust outwardly or half of other things. They think all that they worked and earned in the marriage should belong to the children of that marriage. This trust idea came about because neither my SO or the Ex were willing to give up certain assests so they decided to give it to their children and parents while they divide the current profits until their deaths. Their parents were supposed to keep the joint trust neutral and balanced. But my SO parents aren't even on our side. What do you all think am I being selfish or does everything of the first marriage belong to the kids of that marriage?
If your SO agreed to put the property in trust, then yes, the
property belongs to the kids. The parents are likely looking after their grandchildren.
Wow. He really screwed
Wow. He really screwed himself with this one. The kids are entitled to anything related to the business, so you and any kids you have with him are SOL. And his parents get his assets if they outlive him?! WTF, that's a new one.
No one is going to agree to undo this trust, they all have too much to gain. What a weird way to do things. You will have to decide if you can live in this situation knowing this outcome.
Well that is in the case that
Well that is in the case that he and the EX died and the children are orphans. They will hold unto it until they were old enough.
You've known the man six
You've known the man six months. Why would you possibly believe you should be entitled to what he and his ex wife built and earned during their marriage?
The man isn't penniless. From the day of the divorce onward he continues to built and earn cash that is his to make a new future. If you end up marrying this guy no reason a new home could not be purchased together. If you marry and are married a while he will be free to leave you anything he pleases that he earned post divorce.
I wouldn't move in with a freshly divorced man about to have his 4th baby with his ex wife right away anyway. The man will be wrapped up with his new baby arrival, paying child support to four kids and getting back on his feet adjusting to his new single life raising three kids and a newborn.
Yeah, I know you believe it's true love ever after and still have very rosy colored glasses on.... but if he's Mr Right, he'll still be Mr Right in another year or two.
Obviously if we were to move
Obviously if we were to move in he would have to buy a new home. Also, he is semi-retired. He doesn't actually go into work unless he really is needed. He can build a future but there is a difference between actual money and assests which all of his assest currently aren't available.
I am also talking about in a marriage setting. I have known him for more than 6 months, we have just only dated for that. And just to add we have decided to take a break. I only know this because he is trying to recreate something after his life drama has mellowed. I have decided to ask very deep questions to see if it can be outweighted. Unlike you all my mother really likes him and thinks he has made efforts to appease me.
I understand not wanting to
I understand not wanting to INVEST in property that you don't have a claim to. However, is it just the "bad vibe" that comes with living in a home that he and his EX purchased that gives you an issue? or is it because your name can't be on the deed?
Because... honestly, I don't think your name has to be on the deed to live there. You should still be expected to pay a reasonable amount of RENT to live in the home.. now you aren't responsible for renovations and major repairs.. you just pay rent. period.
Honestly, it sounds like they set things up this way precisely because of the risk that one or both of them would meet future partners that would try to get shares of assets that were built during the marriage.
What are you entitled to if you marry him? you are potentially entitled to a share of earnings during your marriage.. and vice versa.. he may be entitled to a share of your earnings. It sounds like they did this to preserve the estate for the children.. and your "counter" of having some rights to his earnings would only apply to earnings since you got married.
Perhaps he might agree to a life ins policy with you as the beneficiary at some point in the future?
It sounds like if you were expecting your liffe with this guy to end up enriching you.. you probably can not count on that.
By earnings.. wanted to add
By earnings.. wanted to add that I mean earnings..as in his salary. If profits are reinvested in the business.. then that is the value of the business. I am assuming his salary is not insubstantial though
But most people even if they have more kids after that
marriage or relationship will see assets being split fairly amongst all kids. There isn’t well my 4 were born whilst i was in this job and business and earnt x dollars and my last 2 kids for this many decades so get a lesser amount. They do not separate it because this guy is basically by doing this trust saying any future kids are sub standard and not entitled to what he earnt in his lifetime even if he were in a relationship or marriage to someone else.
same applies with superannuation, they won’t go well your last few kids are x years old and he earnt this much during those years so we’ll split that amongst all kids and any superannuation earnt in the 1st 20 yrs when he had his first 3 kids will get 100% of that. Nope they split it fairly if people haven’t set up a will.
Finances are messy and you can’t always trust even your biological family to do the right thing and level the playing field.
so if op does have kids with this man in current scenario, say she has a newborn child now with this guy, this guy dies tomorrow, she gets nothing. No money he earnt in his lifetime whether prior or during this relationship will she or this child get.
do you think all these existing members of the trust will have a discussion and say “look, he has this newborn and we need to make sure that child has their education paid for or at least similar level to the existing kids from prior relationship”, i doubt it... they’ll just be “hmmm its op problem to deal with”, you can’t always count on family to do the right thing when money is involved. People get greedy with money and think they earnt it but reality is the people who worked to earn that money earned it and anyone who supported that persons career to earn that money
Agree finances are messy
Complicating this is apparently the ex wife has a claim to the assets. We dont know if either OP,s SO or his ex thinks they should be getting more than half, we dont know if one started the business. Also, per OP, the ex does not go into work at the business much, does his ex?
There choice is to divide up the assets and then each establish trusts, or do what they have done. Certainly the ex wife does not her share of the assets going to future kids of her ex.
Yup i agree with your last sentence.
Op partner isn’t responsible for any future kids of ex that aren’t from his relationship with her
Oh, this just gets better and
Oh, this just gets better and better.
Please find someone with whom you can build a future with. Between this trust bullshit and BM being pregnant with his 4th kid, surely, you can do better. It really seems like they really aren't ready to be done with each other.
Better to know this now and
Better to know this now and not further into the relationship. If you can't live with this, cut ties and move on. No one involved in this trust, other than you and maybe SO, is going to want to change the rules of the trust right now. Your only hope would be that BM meets someone and wants to change it. And even then from what you wrote a change might not be possible.
However, whatever the status of the trust SO should be able to build a financial future outside the trust. If SO wants to do that he, not you and he, need a to consult a trust lawyer to review what was set up and be clear on his options. It's common for past assets to be kept separate in a new marriage/ relationship, but current and future assets should not be tied to a former spouse.
This all sounds reasonable to
This all sounds reasonable to me, I think this type of trust is good because its two fold. It protects their interests as well as the kids future interest, but it also will deter any gold diggers who might try to take advantage of either of them. This sounds like they made sure to cover all the bases.
They are relatively young
They are relatively young people, if they are just having a baby now. What happens to any future partners they have? What if they have more children? I can see putting some things into a trust, but EVERYTHING? Including the house he bought after he left her? That makes zero sense to me.
I cannot figure out how old they are
Her SO's Ex (or soon to be Ex) are expecting a child together, but not certain that Op and SO are planning kids. I am guessing that the house that her SO recently purchased was with funds from the trust, so it is another trust asset. The thought process may have been that SO earned those assets while married, and did not want to see them end up with his ex giving them away (if she married and had kids).
Emphasis on this will deter
Emphasis on this will deter gold diggers.
And even non-gold diggers who
And even non-gold diggers who hope to have a financial partner as they grow old.
They can still be financial
They can still be financial partners as they grow old. However, that partnership will not be built on money that he and his ex accumulated
I love the the trust that they have in place because it protects their children financially. I have a similar plan in place. In the event that I marry and die before my SO, he will not benefit financially from assets that I gained prior to marriage. All of the investments, choices I made were made with the intentions of leaving everything to my son, future grandchildren, nieces and nephews. I spent the last 30 years working towards that. I would I rework everything to financially enrich someone I just met? At this point in life, I expect any man I'm involved with to come to the table with the same (or close to)financial assets that I have.
The only thing I think the OP's SO and his ex need to do is look at how to address future children that they may have.
They are making sure they and
They are making sure they and their assets are tied together for life. He's not letting go of this one. His first family is his true family.
I once dated a man who bought a cabin with his ex and he wasn't going to let go of the cabin nor was she. They planned to keep it in both their names for the rest of their lives and alternate weekends. He didn't think it was a big deal. The map he made to email people whenever they were vising had his and her name on it "Our cabin" etc. He said it is in fact our cabin. Before I knew about the situation I visited his cabin with him one weekend and it was full of her stuff and old stuff they had together as a couple. He said they are just friends. That was 10 years ago, he's still single and he still has his "ours cabin". No woman would go for that deal.
I actually see no issues with
I actually see no issues with this, depending on how things are handled should you move forward in your relationship.
If you decide to get married in the future, you and your partner should see an attorney to ensure your future together is secured for the two of you. What happens when the house he lives in now is sold? What does he do with his income now?
Before marrying, I would insist that the home be sold and the two of you purchase a home together. I would also insist that all future earnings do not go into the trust.
The businesses are tricky. I would want my kids to benefit from my businesses in the event of my death. But, I would also ensure that my spouse benefitted through savings, our joint home, and life insurance.
What State Do You Live In? I Ask Because Some Allow For The
widow to be granted a life estate at the marital home, no matter who it is bequeathed to. Some even allow the widow to remarry and move the new DH into THAT HOME. In states which grant this most state the widow may live in the home "unencumbered" and that the heirs are to pay all expenses,unless there is a mortgage, and insurance, then the widow would pay those expenses.
This is done to preserve the property so that it may go to the rightful heirs, while refusing to displace the widow.
Check out the laws in your state, and become very familiar with them. You have more rights than you realize.
Checking with a lawyer is always a good idea
But I would say OP MAY have more rights. In tthis situation, where the assets have been transfered into the kids name BEFORE a second marriage, I think it may be more difficult. The present situation is not that the kids are the heirs, they already own the property, albeit in trust.
Wait, so the SKs would be
Wait, so the SKs would be REQUIRED to financially SM AND her new husband until the day she dies!!!! LOL. That's some crazy shit.
Just a question
Does this mean going forward if you were ever to have kids today, they get nothing?? No money from him from his business goes to them because any kids born from your union aren’t in the trust? He can’t leave any property that are allocated to others for any subsequent kids he has because exwife and his parents etc need to give permission??
look things get crazy after a divorce but to be so greedy to not try find a middle ground and have a magistrate settle the issue is insane. Basically they’re tied somehow financially for life
my husband was a manager when he divorced ex. She tried to leave him penniless even put injunction on marital home he bought 100% and evict him and stole heeps of money and cleared out his personal savings account to illegally take money, maxed out credit cards for revenge
he didn’t give up as she wasn’t entitled to this and just got a small lump sum. He rebuilt his life after and actually rose even higher in upper corporate management, his wealth rose much rapidly.
it seems op partner never thought he might remarry again or have more kids so he never planned well
so in current scenario if you had kids together, he dies, you or your kids get not a penny and no portion of his estate because its tied up in a trust that you aren’t members of and can’t be added on unless everyone else agrees who are in the trust.
no doubt exwife won’t want this and make the excuse that well this business was started whilst we were married so no subsequent kids should be added fron subsequent relationships..
this is just a messed up scenario. I would never want to be in a marriage or relationship where my own partner was not physically and financially supporting me and our kids born from that relationship and work towards a will or some assets savings put aside for kids to get to help with basics especially if they are minors
my husband has after divorce (70-80%) of his retirement savings are from post divorce when 2 daughters ended contact with him. 2 kids are adults (1 graduated university, another still in) 1 more is 14. Currently hubby has appointed me as sole inheritor of his pension fund because in current situation our kids and his kids there is a large disparity in the level playing field.
2 have gone to university or currently in, 1 will finish high school in 3 yrs, my toddler starts kindergarten next year followed by her brother. My husband wants all kids to have the basic education taken care of and in current scenario if he died without willing or allocating extra funds to us, he doesn’t expect his 3 elder kids would out of the goodness of their heart to allocate more to our kids so they get a basic education, he isn’t leaving that to chance.
financial discussion is important in a blended or post divorce marriage or relationship
however is op has only been in relationship for a few months and no kids together, there isn’t anything really for discussion except finding out where she stands if they had kids together what he’d will legally to their kids but this is a messed up scenario and i doubt you’d wanna squander money away at an impossibly difficult court case...
Absolutely, financial discussion important
And to hope that spending a lot of money at a court case that may or may not work could be frustrating. Even if her SOs parents were willing to try to help, they likely have a fiduciary duty, and the ex may sue to maintain the trusts.
Exactly and some parents are so bitter about their childs
divorce and the new partner they don’t even acknowledge new grandchildren as theirs...
i just don’t see how anyone can be so selfish like this with their assets.
This is the way i see things....
Currently i have about 60,000 in my retirement fund from superannuation willed to both my bio kids equally 50-50 which i earnt before marrying and getting pregnant with my 2 kids. If my husband died and i remarried, there is no well i earnt this money before i had my 1st 2 kids and after having more kids in a new relationship i have earnt say 100,000 in superannuation that this goes to the new kids.
Any money i earn in my lifetime will go to all of my kids equally or ensure their basics are covered like education and a roof over their heads and i would make sure any of my elder kids had those same beliefs and if they ever turned into greedy pigs with no concern or affection for subsequent siblings because they aren’t their real siblings like what we read about here, i would make sure i protect all my kids so they are in as much as possible level playing field to cover the basics.
my husbands 23.5 yr old daughter with a fulltime graduate job from finishing her university degree has demanded her daddy pay her $1000 per month indefinitely to maintain her because its her birthright and this isn’t gonna stop once she gets married. She maintains no relationship with her dad and has guilted him into working longer than he should.
He might be years before retirement age but he has worked way more hours than someone in a 9am-5pm job and has to work to fulfill this demand from sd23.5 at the expense of being an active dad and husband... my husband has work hours alone worked past retirement age and has every right to retire early and maintain child support or be financially responsible for minors...
i just had this hard talk with hubby yesterday to put everything in context what selfish arseholes his 3 eldest kids are.
This guy is an idiot. WTF are
This guy is an idiot. WTF are you doing with him?
smh
I can understand putting your
I can understand putting your own personal finances into a trust for your kids, but to keep your finances comingled with your ex after a divorce? That is insanity. What a weird situation. As everyone else has said, I would advise you get out of this relationship before you and your son get any more attached than you already are.
This doesn't appear to be
This doesn't appear to be restricted to "within the marriage."
IANAL and you should definitely consult with several but my understanding is that a valuation of a business on x date cannot be held in trust. Interest in the business can be. The business itself can be. It would have to be specified in such a manner.
So many variables to understand and consider - tangible vs intangible, revocable vs irrevocable, any accompanying wills, when those were written, etc.
If it is all held in trust though, you are correct, you (nor anyone else not specifically a beneficiary of the trust) would not be included in the division of those assets. A will can be used to designate specific property (not already held in trust) as well as residue (not specifically bequeathed).
Our estate plan is a complicated mess but it accounts for assets pre-relationship, during the relationship and post-relationship, including dissolution. Even though the vast majority of said estate will be accumulated together. This kind of nonsense is exactly why. I would venture a guess that none of the parties involved actually understood what they were signing up for. In theory it's a nice thought, in practice it can be quite crippling.
I'd not get any further involved without fully understanding his legal obligations.
The trust aside....
His half of all income provided by the trust can be invested outside of the trust and used to accrue assets that have no tie to the trust. That he can leave to you.
I agree that you should not contribute to any home or investment that is not yours.
Good luck.
did i read correctly that the
did i read correctly that the EX is pregnant with baby #4 of his ???? Oh woah why are you even bothering about this relationship? why do you want to put yourself through all of that ... watching your SO visit his Ex and new baby in hospital, she will call him all the time when she needs help , pictures together , everything together with the EX and your the spare wheel ....WHY?? I think you will be fighting a losing battle with this one , they are all still tied together and it doesnt seem he considers his life with anyone else