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Family law and fathers

kjpack28's picture
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My first time on this, and I am not sure where to start without explaining the whole background and story.Sorry it's so long--it was even the shortest version I could think of

The last 3 years my ss's bm has let my dh have him 50% of the time, although this was not set in stone by the court. The court order is days during the week until 8pm, every other friday overnight as well as every saturday morning overnight to sunday night. However, she is a manager at restaurant and is rarely home nights. So instead of my dh taking him home to his step grandma or step dad, she would let him stay overnight because it made more sense. My dh paid child support throughout this time but did not try to change lower it because he knew she would stop giving him extra time if she was not getting the money anymore. Last month when they reviewed child support, he did not turn in the papers to review because he did not want to lose time with his son. However, she turned in the papers and they had to go to court because they wrote down different amounts of overnights. She did not keep track and admitted this so they went with his answer and decreased child support. She became upset as expected and stopped giving him the extra time with his son. She also filed a motion to go back to court to increase child support to more than it was before. She basically told the judge that she is no longer giving him extra overnights so she needs the money. The judge agreed and now my dh is paying more than he was in the first place, as well as seeing his son less. Now they are going to court for custody because he is trying to get 50/50, since she has willingly gave it to him the last 3 years anyway but stopped because of the risk of losing support.

Throughout this process I've lost all faith in Family Law. I don't feel that fathers are treated fairly and it is clear they side with mothers. Why is it the a loving, great father, should have to pay money to see his child less when he would like to see him as much as possible? He was clearly willing to pay child support even when he shouldn't have been just so he could see his son more. It's been hard to watch this happen. At mediation today he suggested a schedule that worked around her hectic work schedule so she would see their son much more than she is now, and she declined it. She cares more about support than her son, and I feel that her actions make that clear and cut, but the court keeps favoring her requests. Why do mothers look at fathers wanting to see their children as a negative thing? My ss asks all the time why he can' stay over, which puts us in a bad position on what to say. We don't want him to think we don't want him to stay but we also are not going to blame his bm. We just have to be vague and say "because that is the plan for tonight".

Does anyone else struggle with the father getting anywhere with custody when he is a fully adequate, capable and loving father? Does anyone having any advice on how to cope with accepting this and not letting it consume your life? It's become such a struggle that I have started to get bad anxiety and depression.

FrustratedSP's picture

I am right there with you! It is so frustrating that BM's have this "power" and they use it and abuse it all the time. In my opinion, child support should not be awarded if both parents are equally involved in the child's life. If it's a EOW arrangement I could see it, but if the days are equal, there is NO reason that child support should be awarded. I know it was put into place for single parents, but when that's not the case, change needs to happen.

I have been married for 3 years and everytime we go to court the judge always rules in favor of the BM. She's a horrible mother, has several CPS cases against her for her other children, yet there is such a stereotype against fathers out there that no one sees past it. She lies repeatedly and finds loopholes in the court system for whatever she needs to accomplish. We finally got child support lowered because too much was being paid based on salary. But she still won everything else she wanted. I understand that the judges can only rule based on the facts presented, in most cases false facts, but it would be nice if the judges would stop looking at mother vs. Father and start looking at the betterment of the child. Being with the mother is not always the right thing.

Hang in there, I keep hoping one day we can afford the best attorney and maybe then some fairness will actually be seen.

Disneyfan's picture

THIS

Your husband should have went to court from start if he wanted the extra time to be offical. He could have request FROR So this isn't a case of family court being against fathers.

ESMOD's picture

What my DH found out is that it really boiled down to the money with the BM.

At various times as the skids grew up, they lived with BM, Us or DH's parents. BM would pretty much agree to whatever as long as he paid the child support in their order.

The money thing also worked in his favor when he wanted extra time.. he would offer to pay her extra "gas money".. 50 bucks.. whatever to have the kids for a long weekend.

So, was he paying more to see the kids more.. absolutely.

Also, you don't have to go to court and let the judge decide. If your DH understands that the BM is money driven, he just needs to make her an offer she can't refuse. A lawyer can draw up a custody/support agreement. If your DH had offered to not reduce his CS.. but take care of the kids 50% of the time.. BM probably would have agreed. Generally, if both parties agree and the kids aren't being harmed in some way, there is no reason for the court to decline that agreement.

Just like my DH's ex agreed to finalize and sign divorce papers if he paid her 1000 dollars. (her idea.. damn her blackmailing evil heart).

To be honest, if your DH can approach his Ex with an offer and get her to agree without a lot of back and forth with lawyers.. then it will save everyone a lot of aggravation and money.

kjpack28's picture

It would be worth a shot. Thanks for the suggestion we will maybe try to come up with something. Too bad that he would have to pay someone to see his son more though. However, she doesn't want the court or anyone else to know she is money driven, even though that should be clear by her actions i would think. Also, she just went to court to get it raised so I'm not sure if she would be willing a lower offer.

kjpack28's picture

He has been going to court from the start. They give him a little more time each time he goes back,and then he has to wait 2 years to try again. The GAL has said in the past that he was just not at the age yet where he should have two homes, but as he got older they would move towards a 50/50 schedule. i believe he is at the age now where it is more acceptable. BM willingly will give him more time on top of the court order, but then not agree to make it official in court. He just got a new lawyer that has more experience. Neither of us knew about FROR until now, not even our new lawyer has brought this up which surprises me. i am hoping maybe we can make that happen. I am not sure how that would work on school nights when she works until 11pm. Would ss have to be woken up and transported back to her house then once she got home? that wouldn't be good either so hopefully in that case he could stay the night.

kjpack28's picture

I understand the court has to many cases to investigate every petty argument, lie, ect. But when two parents are equally capable of supporting a child financially, and perfectly capable of parenting with no issues whatsoever, and the child is at an age where it is okay for him to have two homes rather than one primary...I just don't understand why they would tell a parent no to 50/50.

Rags's picture

I completely disagree that it is not the courts job to identify the facts. It is definitely the Judge’s job to consider the facts and that includes digging for them if necessary. Nearly the entire problem is that the bench in family law courts is filled far too often by the useless asses of the bottom 10%ers of the legal profession.

The insane frequency of these dipshitiots getting it so, so, so wrong is proof beyond both the legendary reasonable doubt and the preponderance of the evidence. That we tolerate their despicable hides in such an important place is disgusting IMHO. Only the best of the best should rule on what is in the best interests of a child. Marginal morons of that profession have no business ruling on what is in the best interests of children. The true joke is that there is no true thing as family law. It is not generated by legislators, it is case law and ruling made by idiots have been allowed to stand and harm countless children and victimized parents who have stood as semi-willing victims of the idiot judges.

I quote "I hope everyone feels better now because I am going to do what I always do". This after all day, countless $thousands in travel costs and legal fees, dozens of people's wasted time to testify and present the facts about the fetid stench of the shallow and polluted end of my SS's gene pool.

We went in prepared, believing in the process, and very, very ready to put an end to the entire disgusting crap brought by the Sperm Clan. We left coated in the stench of the entire process and particularly with the reek of the idiot on the bench.

Our witnesses included Police Officers, certified foster parents, underage girls that DickHead had perpetrated statutory rape with, people who had seen him giving SS booze at parties when he was between 9mos and a year old, people who had whitnesed him having sex in public with the 16yo who he had married three weeks before court so he would not be arrested for statutory rape on the spot, etc…. The judge admonished us for submitting so much stuff for him to review which if he had actually read it he would have needed about 10secs to make a quality ruling. For months this judge agreed to every bullshit reschedule they asked for, lauded what a "fine" family that the Sperm Clan is and how any child would be fortunate to have such pillars of the community in their lives, how the whole thing was a waste of time and that he had had to not take a murder trial because we refused to yet again tolerate a postponement of our hearing :sick: , :sick: , :sick:

We still won but I was so pissed when the judge was spouting his bullshit that I was shaking. His eyes got as big as saucers when right after he banged the Fisher-Price hammer closing the hearing I gave out a stern “That’s bullshit and it will be fun to appeal to some judges who have half a brain!” He called the Bailiff over and whispered in his ear. The Bailiff walked over and asked me to leave the courtroom. I refused and said. “Nope, the hearing is closed. The Judge has no authority to ask me to leave a public place unless he wants to reopen the court wich would be great if he would do that and actually give a better than half assed ruling.” The Judge turned purple and the Bailiff tried not to laugh. And I stayed. Granted I stepped back behind the rail so as to not push it too far.

I had been threatened repeatedly with contempt of court if I continued to refuse to provide my income information to the Judge. I had refused because I could not provide it following the Judge’s ruling that I was not a party to the case. If I was not a party to the case, neither was my money. That basic concept of logic was way beyond what his honor’s pea brain could process. I had a great time tying him in knots on that one. Particularly when he told me that if I said another word and did not provide record of my income that he would have me arrested for contempt and then blew a gasket when I refused to say another word and just sat there looking at him like he was an idiot. A called our attorney over and said “Please tell the judge that I cannot say another word or he will throw me in jail so no, I will not be saying another word to the Judge.” That was some fun, let me tell ya. The really fun part was the envelope that I had sat on the corner of the bench when I took the stand. The whole time he was struggling with the logic of demanding my income information after ruling that I was not a party to the case my income information was sitting about a foot and half from his left hand. Oh he was so pissed when I refused to say another word per his instructions then with a smart asked smirk on my face leaned towards him and tapped on the envelope that had been their the whole time. Blum 3 Wink Biggrin

So, rather than stand at the foot of the bench after being asked to leave by the Bailiff I stepped behind he rail.

I informed our marginal attorney during our post hearing meeting that I was going to contest the crap out of the judge’s ruling, take out full page adds in the local small town paper barring the idiocy of his ruling, and I was going to keep that add running weekly until the end of his re-election campaign, and I was going to write monster checks to his opponents campaigns. She begged me not to because it would gut her practice in that small town.

I placed the add complete with direct quotes from the judge from the court recordings from the hearing, a picture of the judge, a fuzzed out picture of the Skid, and a mug shot of the Sperm Idiot and a facsimile of his arrest record with the bold print saying "This judge, forces this child, to spend time with this criminal waste of skin!!!" I got a call from our lawyer again begging me to withdraw the add before it ran in the next publication of the weekly paper. A relative of the Judge worked at the paper and called the Judge, who had his secretary call our former lawyer, who then called me begging yet again. I told her I would not run the add if the idiot Judge resigned his position on the bench immediately. }:) No deal. They begged again... so I told our lawyer to get a written statement from the judge that he would recuse himself from any future family court action we were part of in that jurisdiction. Deal. I kept the proof of the add just in case I had to run it on short notice. We ran into that judge a few times when we were in Sperm Land visiting my ILs over the years. I loved seeing the scowl form on his face when he recognized me after I would ask him if he had seen the Sperm Idiots latest addition to his brood of out of wedlock spawn by yet another underage or very young baby mama.

It was a similar story. Every judge, every time until all of them in that area learned that they had to be on their best game when we showed up in their courtroom. Not that we ever lost. We never did. We repeatedly handed the Sperm Clan their asses but that was because we never left anything to chance and we kept the idiots in the black robes and stupid little Fisher-Price wooden hammers nailed to the bench by their flappy slimey gonads. We did that after the first round by never going to court with a pen and paper when a Howitzer was better. Never bring a drooling idiot lawyer to a knife fight in court. Bring a Ninja, Killer, Brainiac, Legal Genius with a large caliber weapon. The weapon references are figurative of course.

Hire the best lawyer you can afford. Research, document, hire a PI to follow the opposition around and find every nasty little factual detail there is to find and pile it on the bench in front of the idiot in the black robes. Every time. Arrest records, statutory rape incidents, under the table income not reported on taxes or used in previous CS calculations, Sperm GrandPa's stable of mistresses, DipShitIot living rent free in the Sperm GrandParents rental property yet claiming he paid rent, etc, etc, etc....... Let no rock go unturned or anything the opposition says go uncontested. If they claim they are broke ask questions. When they answer ask more questions.

After that first round we shopped for a new attorney. We spoke with dozens of them. When we met with our killer shark ninja counselor it was a done deal after the first 15mins. For nearly 20 years he has been our attorney. We have used him for everything and referred many family members and friends to him. He never made a whole lot off of us because we did tons of leg work for ourselves but he has made plenty of money on our referrals.

After the first hearing never again did a judge harp on what a fine family they were and instead would close with a stern lecture to the Sperm Idiot and a long period of disgusted stares at the Sperm Clan members sitting behind the pouting Sperm Idiot.

Even then the rulings invariably had elements of idiocy because the Judges would not take the time to read all of the material submitted. They each freely said that.

So... the problem IMHO and experience is that the Judges choose to not do the job they are paid to do. Far too many of them are idiots.

ESMOD's picture

Lucky for us my DH's EX never actually followed through on her threats to "take him back to court". However, I did keep regular records of her business as a photographer and her multi weekly postings of wedding jobs and newborn shoots etc. I also documented her BIO where she stated that she lived with her BF. The date the BIO was created was almost 10 years ago at this point. I also took images of her older daughters social media when she was a teen living with her in "party mode" just in case we needed it.

kjpack28's picture

He is 6, almost 7. He makes is very clear he wants him around and I really don't believe he thinks his dad or I don't want him here. But I think he knows something is up because he is staying over less. But when he asks why we just don't think it is appropriate at this time to blame it on his mom. We want things to be civil and him to feel comfortable about his parents getting along.

We didn't know about FROR, that might be helpful in the meantime until custody is decided again.

Thanks for the response

Rags's picture

Kids definately deserve the facts in an age appropriate manner. As they get older, they get more factual information. They need the facts to understand what is very often a very complex situation and to be able to be armed in order to protect themselves from manipulation by either side of their blended family. It becomes more critical as they get older.

kjpack28's picture

We have been trying to learn as much as possible about what can be done and not done, and hopefully the new lawyer will help. They told us we had to wait 2 years to file again to change support, so we didn't know that was an option. That's really too bad. Instead we just kept texts, phone calls and documentation to show how much time he was getting.

I think not knowing what was going on would bother me more. I think what kills me is just the plain fact of how wrong the whole situation is in general, and how a parent can be told by someone who doesn't know them that he or she isn't allowed to see his/her child an equal amount for really no reason. But I am getting ahead of myself. They may grant him 5050 easily this time now that he is going to be 7 years old and after seeing him so much more the last two few years. I understand ss having one primary home when he is younger, but having to have 3-4 different transportations from house to house to house on a weeknight after school seems much more hectic to me than staying put at one house or another. But I guess the GAL and judge didn't agree

Thank you

kjpack28's picture

I see some of my replies weren't going directly underneath the comments I was responding to. I guess I am not sure how to work this yet. Sorry.

wendyrhines's picture

Does you DH have an attorney? That wasn't clear from your initial comments. If he doesn't he flat out isn't going to be treated fairly and that's about the way it is. There is unfairness in the family court system, but I blame that fairness less on the system than I do on cultural perceptions that still favor mothers--at least slightly--when it comes to raising young children. I work as a paralegal in an attorney's office that does much family law. I have seen unrepresented people come to court and they often do a crappy job of even communicating what it is that they want. The judges and commissioners spent much time just trying to understand what very inarticulate people even want. I'm sorry its not going better for him. Its difficult.

erasec63's picture

Have you made the court aware that the mother is frequently not at home and the child has no adult at home? Therefore he stays with his bio father? Does bio father have right of first refusal? Then it is a no brainer if she works the same amount of nights each week he must be with his father so then it is a 50/50 split. Who is she leaving the child with now? Make the judge aware of that.

BTW Family court sucks. Yes, they rule in favor of the BM even if she is Lizzy Borden. I hope this changes someday.

Rags's picture

Sadly the default in family court tends to be that dad's are not necessary and that moms get custody and control. Oh the bottom 10%er moron of the legal profession in the idiot robe and Fisher-Price wooden hammer sitting behind the bench will say that a kid must be with both parents but decisions far more often than not demonstrate otherwise.

I am married to the CP in our blended family adventure and though I detest my Skids SpermClan for their toxic crap I still recognize that dads get the shaft more often than not in family court.

Sadly our family law system tends to treat divorce or out of wedlock procreation as prostitution on the installment plan with the man usually having to pay a monthly fee for renting his baby mama's womb for 9mos while baby mama has little responsibility under the courts and can usually blow off the CO anyway.