Thanks Snickers. You are so right.

Accountable. That would be a new concept to her. The few rare occassions DH did try to talk to her about her behaviour, she started running around pretending she was being attacked. Holding her ears and shrieking for us to leave and stop frightening her children. We were sitting on the couch, patting the couch asking her to just sit down and talk to us for a few minutes. Quite the drama queen. That is why he won't go see her alone.

Good timing on that remark Wow. My DH just forwarded a text from SD that said she wants a relationship with him and with her boys and that she has been waiting for three years. How she has begged him to come over. Too bad we kept all her little letters. She wants to forget about the past. (I'll bet she does now that there is a child custody battle).

Once again, using her kids for bribes. First we can't see them because her sissy's feelings got hurt when dear daddy suggested she help with the dishes(age 32) Now, she has begged us to see them and we wouldn't hmmmm.....yea, that sounds about right! NOT!

I am going to have to keep re reading and re reading advise on here......

I am seriously considering that Oldone.

Last night, with her cell phone in hand with her dear sister on speaker phone, she announced she is leaving him and is taking the kids. dropped a few f bombs etc. Nothing like sharing that news with your wifey and sister in law. Fortunately, he kept his cool.

She pulled the same stunt on us one time and kept yelling for us to stop frightening her. Her sister and her are two deeply disturbed individuals.

I feel sorry for son in law, but take comfort in knowing he now knows how these two operate. It is unbelievable to most people (unless you belong to this step parent forum of course)

she's driving me. Yes, I too feel sorry for her hubby. We all do and want to tell him run and never look back! LOL.

There will be a custody battle. He wants shared 50/50 and she wants it all. He has 3 boys ages 10 ,5, 2. Obviously, we've never met the littlest as she was already blackmailing us 3 years ago. When we were a big part of their lives, he was a good dad and did a lot with his boys.

When finally contacting her dear daddeeeeee, she was already arguing custody and probably realized we could testify against her. Also, she wanted to see him so desparately but her dear sister in crime had to be present. They are the dynamic duo sisters.

We were very close to this daughter after many years of ups and downs but the narcissist sister got her claws in her and it has been sheer hell ever since.

We are better off not getting involved because even if he loses custody, we get to see the grandkids again finally on his weekends. But I don't want him to lose . That is the evil , human in me. I want her to get hers finally.

That being said or admitted, I just have to go back to "she's dead" mentality but it's hard when the phone keeps ringing.

Yes, I was actually just thinking about this last week before this "went down".
Just found out via son in law, she is seeing someone else, maxed out all credit cards and is blatantly calling the other guy in front of him to provoke him. He is not taking the bait and staying calm. She wants him to declare bankruptsy and use the same lawyer complete with full custody, his retirement and child support. DH gave him the name of the meanest divorce attorney we know.

All this just makes me validated that I was not the crazy one. }:)

Stepson in law calls all the time now. Sometimes we have to turn the phone off. I feel very sorry for him. He visits here too and tells us stuff he thinks will shock us about SD. We keep telling him we are not shocked a bit, she did the same to us. He came over yesterday and asked if he could at least read the hate letter she wrote us three years ago re her dad's cancer. He was sickened.

Now, she is hitting him, offering up sex for kids, calling him every loathing name in the world and at the least ,having a texting marathon with some former boyfriend .

I don't know how much more crap my DH can take. I think he, like "she's driving me's" hubby is going to end up in the hospital. He is going to go to the lawyer and son in law's attorney with him at least so son in law doesn't feel like he is the crazy one. She can certainly make you feel you are.

Good part is we have nothing to lose by totally shutting them all out. She already took away our grandchildren and blew up our family unit. If we choose, we can just tell son in law enough is enough. It will just be like every other day for the last 3 years. They weren't in it at all except for an occassional hate letter.

God I hate this! :sick:

Thanks, I needed that reassurance. DH and I had a big blow up last night. SD actually came to see him for the first time in 3 years to work of course. He was back to his old wishy washy self and didn't even address the hurt she had caused holding kids ransom for three years and the hate letters or any teeny bit of her behaviors. I am still seething. I asked him "how's this parenting working for you???" Can't change I guess.

I really am going to have to go somewhere and blow my gasket! Too bad I have to work and be a professional and smile today! GAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

As much as I prayed and vented to my sister, I was hoping when DH came home aftr work I would be through my anger. Not to be. :O I tried playing with the dog, ignoring DH, watching TV etc.

Apparently, my cup was full and until it spilled over, I wasn't going to feel better.

I asked DH if he even said one confrontational thing to SD when she came to his office. Asked if he said anything at all such as, "do you know how hurtful writing someone a hate letter is when they just had radical cancer surgery? Do you know how hurtful it is to hold grandchildren ransom? " I asked anything at all? No......he didn't think about it at the time.

I think I was possessed by the tanzmanian devil for 30 minutes. I took the grandchildren's pics off the wall and told him to look at these two. They used to cling to us. We were one big happy family. Your daughter sliced through our hearts with a razor blade in so many ways. We have been to 6 counselors and 2 ministers in 10 years. She is a freakin'lunatic and yet why shouldn't she be? I have never ever ever seen your correct her. She has never been accountable for one thing ever that she has done. Your head is up your own ass so far! You just ignore it. And yet you want ME to go to counseling with her???? I am done. I don't want to reconcile with her . I want her in psycho therapy for her personality disorder.

He said, well you and my parenting skills are different. I yelled "ya think??? I corrected my kids! He said , well they listened to you! I said "well, you have to actually say something out loud you know! You can't ignore it and write a letter a month later."

We never fight. Unless it's his kids. Of course it has been so peaceful since disengaging 3 years ago but then she had to surface again and want daddeeeee to feel sorry for her. Puke.

Anyway,it was ugly. I am not proud of myself by any means. But I actually feel alot better unloading. The f bomb went flying off my tongue way too easily.

DH and I had a nice evening last night. No tension at all. Weird huh?

Yes, catmom I think your right. I think that is the only way it was going to finally sink into his skull.

Thanks forgotten. Wish I wouldn't have flipped, but I did and I do feel better.

After much painstaking discussion, DH and I agreed we would go to see the marriage counselor with son in law Monday. We called and left a message 4 days prior just to make sure it would be ok to come along. It was son in law's solo appointment, his dime.

Our goal was not to discuss their marriage or problems SD has had with us, but this guy is a psychologist and maybe he could TREAT her personlity disorder. We spent hours paring down what we would tell him. One thing would be that she had accused another male psychologist of "having his hands all over" her. 6 counselors and a couple of ministers later, it appears she has a very high score on the Personality Disorder diagnostic test.

Son in law asked us to go. He too wants her treated.

Anyway, we were turned away at the door. Apparently psychologist did not realize we were SD's parents. Said it wouldn't be ethical. He offered to call SD and ask if it was ok to speak with us. We of course, said no thank you and left.

We can't imagine what she would do to son in law if she knew we were there. I would not put rape, sexual molestation of children or beating accusations against him.

As we were leaving, the doc said " I can however, receive letters from others".

We went home despondent. It took alot of guts for us to even attempt this.

I have been reading my al anon book to remind me of a few things. My brother had given me a copy back when I needed it to cope with something other than an alcoholic. It is just good advice to live by.

Should we write the letter? Or should we just "let go and let God." We have already lost the grandchildren so she can do nothing to us that would have hurt more than that. We don't see her.(bonus for me) but I have always been someone who sticks up for people who are getting bullied, snow balled and tortured. Also, what if this pyschologist CAN treat her? I don't know the answer.

Son in law came over last night again. He showed us where she again beat on him. Once again, he blames everything on himself and how he should have tried harder, should have taken her out to eat more etc. Love is so blind isn't it?

As a father, I am sure DH wants his DD to get some much needed treatment. However, he pretty much I think, is done with the whole thing after the Psychologist meeting Monday.

Thoughts?

Thanks Catmom. I forgot to mention a very important detail. son in law knows nothing of the psychiatric visits we had for her and us. When they married, all we could think was "good luck buddy, you are going to need it". He doesn't know any of it. We were going to have him wait outside and inform psychologist of all of it. Unless he is a complete idiot, he should pretty much have a clue by now though!

I emailed my former counselor to ask what ethically we could do. I like your idea about a court ordered evaluation. Have to store that info for later.

And yes, personality disorders are very difficult to treat because they don't think there is anything wrong with them.

Well, maybe some of you will have to deal with this someday too so here is what happened next.

I had a phone conference with my old counselor.
She said don't bother writing the letter. She knows the psychologist SD is seeing and he will have her figured out by session 2.
As some of you suggested, (you guys are so smart by the way!) what if they reconcile? What if what psychologist reads the letter and then decides he can't treat her after we reveal to him what we know. We have made no attempt to see the grandskids . She thought that was an excellent decision. She also agreed with our plan,that if she calls DH and threatens suicide(oh, I'm sure the day is coming) that DH should ask SD where she is as if he would be right over and then call 911 and tell them someone is threatening to kill themself. That way, it is a court admissable record and possible court ordered therapy.

We felt a huge burden lifted from our shoulders. You always have this guilt seeping back in that you should help your child no matter what. She is 30 years old so that is not really a child now is it?

Life around here is pretty tense and anxious yet. She has pulled some incredible stunts this past week . Son in law still calls here to vent and comes over. We just try to build his self esteem back up. Last night was the worst yet.

However, at least we know we don't have to entangle ourselves in her sick twisted world anymore.

We also know she personally can't hurt us anymore than she already did so we have nothing to lose . She already played that card.

Oh yes, for those of you dealing with personality disorders..... It is either hate or love. They cannot deal or cope with anyone who challenges their behavior. We challenged her behavior once and for all 3 years ago so we were discarded into the hate pile. Well, her hubby is now in that hate pile too. There is no compromise or gray area.

Hate or love.

Her love pile is getting pretty skinny as she has totally blown off all aunts, uncles grandparents and step brothers into that pile. You see, they too challenged her. Funny thing is, they are all very gentle passive people and their challenge was more like. "I don't understand how you could treat your father and SM like this" That is all it took to get put in her hate pile.

So, she had to pick up her Dear Daddie's hate card and simply demand him back into her life. Demand. Seriously. I guess that is typical. Frightening isn't it?

Yes, "you are no use to me" is exactly right.

Son in law told me yesterday that no one in SD's family ie: aunts, uncles, grandfather will speak to her. That is absolutely not true. They invite her to every function. Problem is, one aunt told wrote her that she loved her and her sister and always will but couldn't understand how they could treat their father and myself so badly. That is all it said. I have the copy of the letter. From that, everyone is totally iced. Good grief, her grandfather is a saint and 97 years old. Iced. Everyone is on the hate list.

Very typical of personality disorder. They can take absolutely no criticism.