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Irene H.'s picture

Its finally here. The youngest is 18, and she graduated a couple weeks ago. 

We've been 50/50 custody, and week on/week off with the kids, all along. So we have had just as much time and effort with them as their mom.  Also, we are a little better off than her, financially, so we end up paying for most of the extras. I don't care about that, for the reason you'd think. As a former child of divorce, myself, I want them to live comfortably no matter who they're with, not living in poverty with her, then coming here to a markedly different level of comfort.

I'm peeved that we/DH get cut out of stuff. Over the years, he had to learn the hard way to make his own arrangements for school pictures, or he wouldn't get them, even if he paid (she'd intercept them). He's frequently found out about events after the fact, with Skids and their mom pointing fingers at each other when asked why no one told us/him. 

The day before she graduated, DH asked SD18 about going out to dinner after graduation. She told him no, that she already had plans with her mom and her boyfriend's family. She said it so casually, and didn't even see the look on his face, over being excluded. It clearly didn't occur to her that this was messed up. We ended up ordering a pizza to take home after the ceremony was over, and when we stopped in to the local spot, one of DH's coworkers was in there, having a grad party for his kid. Oddly enough, we were invited to stay. We got invited to that kid's grad dinner, but not SD18's.

The day after, he asked her how dinner had been, then told her it would've been nice to be invited. She said she thought he'd be uncomfortable, going to dinner with her mom.

My first issue is, wherever there's a choice between us and BM, why does she always win? When we do just as much for them, if not more? Its not like we're estranged. SD18 has had no problem asking us for money for prom, Disneyland trip, all the other senior events, car repairs, etc. But it doesn't occur to her to invite her dad to graduation dinner? Her boyfriend's parents were there, but her dad wasn't welcome?

My second issue is, WE are not the ones who are "uncomfortable" socializing with BM. BM doesn't want me to be in those spaces, and DH won't allow me to be excluded, so he gets the shaft. But for SD18 to say she thought WE wouldn't want to be there with BM, when its the other way around, just torques my hind end! 

We have never badmouthed BM to the Skids. I made it a rule early on, because I didn't want them to have to hear it, like I did from my mom (not my dad though; he never said anything against her). She has shown no such restraint, in return.

I want to set the record straight. It floors me that they can't put two and two together themselves, and see we aren't the problem. Should I break my own rule, now that they're all adults? Tell them, diplomatically, that their mother is the problem, and they need to stop excluding their dad over HER drama? Or will it just make things worse?  

It likely won't be but a few years before they're marrying and having kids of their own, and I don't want to keep being excluded by people we do so much for. I feel like we all need to grow up and get along well enough to stop putting them in the middle like this. I also want my husband to be able to enjoy the fruits of his labor as a parent, not keep being cut out of everything. 

Comments

Shieldmaiden's picture

My DH and I were not invited to SD18's graduation either. She wants gifts so she sent my dad a notice but I told him not to buy her anything, because she hasn't made any effort to stay in touch with him. She hasn't ever said thank you to him for the gifts he was kind enough to get her.

DH decided he was going to his daughters graduation without a "ticket." He pretended to be a security guard and they let him in. He watched her walk to get her diploma, took a pic, and left. SD refused to believe that he was there until he sent her a pic. I thought it was funny, but also sad for him. 

These Skids deserve whatever is coming to them. I will hope they turn out as better people but I am not holding my breath.

thinkthrice's picture

How pitiful that DH went undercover as a sec guard to attend his ungrateful crotch dropping's graduation.  SMH.  You can literally see the respect score dropping like a stone off a cliff.

Lillywy00's picture

The day before she graduated, DH asked SD18 about going out to dinner after graduation. She told him no, that she already had plans with her mom and her boyfriend's family

Well it seems like he asked for her permission which gave her a choice to say yes or no. 
 

Stop giving them choices when they don't deserve them. 
 

"Look little Suzy....we've done ALOT to help you get where you are today and we are hosting a graduation party for you and our family so which date would be better may the 15 or May the 30th?" .... those are the only two choices there is no choice to say no here unless they are laid up in the hospital or some other serious emergency. 
 

Dont expect to be included in BMs hosted events. Host your own. 

My parents would have side-eyed me, ran multiple guilt trips, told the entire family, and probably gave me some negative consequence if I dare told them no they couldn't host a graduation celebration for me.
 

Unless parents are abusive or something then denying them this opportunity to do something nice/celebrate their kids during these once in a lifetime milestones is a pretty messed up thing to do  

Should I break my own rule, now that they're all adults? Tell them, diplomatically, that their mother is the problem, and they need to stop excluding their dad over HER drama? Or will it just make things worse?  

If his kids are so obtuse and inconsiderate to tell you all no they don't want to be with you all for a graduation celebration then I would not trust that they'd be emotionally intelligent enough to handle the truth about their mother. 
 

Don't waste your breath 

If your DH isn't so offended that he says nothing to them about their rude behaviors then he doesn't really care that much. 
 

You can not be more offended then he is.
 

This is is battle for him to figure out how to man up and tell his kids about themselves so they can correct their behavior. 
 

Instead of bring up their mother I'd question my spouse if I were you .... like "Bob are you okay? ... your children seemed to have disrespected you on multiple occasions (provide the facts) and you never said anything to them to allow them to correct themselves. Is this how you prefer to be treated by them?" 
 

Side note = a lot of BMs their spawns have levels of entitlement that are out of this world. They expect you to sit down, shut up, and be a walking ATM for their unlimited whims 

Rags's picture

I am team full frontal there, and proud to celebrate the kid's accomplishment. Whether the X likes it or not. Whether the kid likes it or not.

If the X and/or the kid takes exception to my participation, that is on them and if they choose to make their issue with it known, I will make it clear to them and anyone else preset that the problem is theirs and not mine.

For us, it was a non issue as the SpermClan never once participated in anything of importance in my SKid's life.  Not one call his entire life just to talk to him, did not  come to one event, not one graduation, nothing.  We did not spoon feed them an invitation, but neither did we exclude them.  SS never once invited them.  He matched their energy and engagement in his life.

When he was young he enjoyed SpermLand visitation. As he got older, their toxic manipulation, lies, and PAS detracted from his interface with them and severly impacted their standing in his eyes.

Irene H.'s picture

So...he didn't ask for permission. He brought up going out to dinner after graduation, and got shut down because she already had plans. Plans that didn't include him.

I'm not more offended than him. But this is a stepparent's forum, so I'm talking about my perspective, not his. 
 

But the rest of your response was helpful. Thank you.

BethAnne's picture

Ugghh....I know you can't put all the context in a short post but.....why would you all want to hang out with BM if she is full of drama as you say? Why can't BM say that she doesn't want to hang out with her ex? (that's pretty reasonable). Also if SD knows there will likely be drama, then she can choose to reduce the drama by only seeing one parent at a time. Why was your husband only asking the day before graduation about plans for the evening after? Why when SD was busy that evening didn't he say....well how about Wednesday night?

It sucks that her mother seems to be winning the popularity contest that is parenthood, and I am sure there are numerous examples where similar situations have happened. But I do think in this case your husband is expecting a bit much to be invited to last minuite to a celebration with his ex. 

MorningMia's picture

I know the fantasy of "setting the record straight." DH has never bad-mouthed BM the way he could have, but he has told the skids the truth when they have hounded him over his "abandonment" of them--the false narrative fed them by their mother. 
There has been so much PAS in our situation that I likened it to a cult many years ago, and in many ways, once they entered adulthood, it became more cultlike than ever. 
It was and is useless for us to set the record straight with BM's minions.  Here, we have resigned ourselves to the fact that they are too far gone. 
But if DH goes before me, believe me, I'm setting the record straight with his daughter in writing. Setting the record straight is for me, not me expecting any change. 
If I were in your shoes, I would start holding back on what you all do for the skids. Perhaps start behaving the way you are treated. 

thinkthrice's picture

We we're definitely not invited to the three ferals "graduation" ceremony.  I put graduation in quotes because they received charity/ pity grades their entire academic career.  Especially YSS 21 aka the HousesHitter because he didn't even log in whatsoever during covid remote school sessions.  Just played vid games the entire time.

I prefer it that we weren't invited and have never looked back although Chef's undercurrent of seething rage over the whole thing inevitably filters down to me. 

Cover1W's picture

DH is absolutely not the favorite parent here either.

YSD18 just graduated. I was not invited to graduation so I did not attend (been involved with SDs for 11 years now). So no gift from me.

DH suggested to YSD, a few days before graduation, that they do a dinner for her at her favorite, and only restaurant, she'll go to. He never got an answer and only a shrug grad night. He was disappointed.

He's also not going to college move in day because "it would be awkward" according to BM. WTF. He's just letting them dictate again and being hurt again about it, in spite of me constantly telling him to not be so freaking passive!

I've got no answers for this but to recommend staying out of it except with your DH privately.

Felicity0224's picture

Is it possible that it's not just that BM is uncomfortable having you and your husband there, but perhaps it's uncomfortable for SD to have her parents together? I actually think that's a pretty standard sentiment for children whose parents had a contentious divorce. She could just be blaming it on BM because that's easier than being honest about her own feelings. But feel like your DH could've been more proactive about planning his own celebration for SD's graduation if it was really that important to him. 

I know my SDs would rather die than suffer through a meal with both of their parents. Fortunately that's fine with all the adults involved too and we've just learned to plan around each other's stuff. 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Speaking as a BM, there are situations where everyone must be together. These include weddings, funerals, and graduations. Things where there can be only one ceremony. As far as birthdays, holidays, dinners and parties to celebrate graduations, etc., i would rather have those separately.

When my son graduated high school, my ex threw a big bash the night before. I felt like i had to go, but after i went, i realized it would have been much nicer to have my own celebration with my son. Joint things are awkward. There was a reason we split up, many in fact, and one of the best parts of being divorced is not dealing with my ex unless i have to.

As far as the kids' feelings, of course they would be upset if one or both parents missed graduation. But they have both said they prefer to do holidays and all other things separately, or are ambivalent. I came out and asked once if one of them wanted to do a joint dinner for graduation and got a firm "no!" To them, one of the best parts of coming from a broken home (other than the lack of domestic violence and daily screaming) was double celebrations/double presents. 

Lillywy00's picture

There was a reason we split up, many in fact, and one of the best parts of being divorced is not dealing with my ex unless i have to.
 

EXACTLY

My ex/now reckless breeder had a lot of narcissistic tendencies (that I didn't realize until after I was "locked in" with him for 18 years) and enjoyed stirring up drama then forcing me to deal with him and his shenanigans so I could maybe get him to pay his child support on time. 
 

He would constantly insult me, argue with me, and be an annoying arrogant jerk. 
 

One day I got so sick of his sh*t I told him "look here mfer - I broke up with you so I wouldn't have to deal with your bullsh*t on a regular so you can either get yourself together or lose my number/contact the lawyer regarding your visitation" 

His trifling a$$ chose the later and I was relieved to not have to be negatively impacted by his narcissistic behaviors disguised as "co-parenting" 

 

Sometimes (unless cs is paid through the system and everything else done through the lawyers) the child support money is not worth the headache 

Rags's picture

While I understand the emotion of avoiding reality, it is not an effective way to raise CODs IMHO.

Reality is that things are not identical between mom's house and dad's house in a divorce or otherwise failed family situation.  In our case, DW was a single teen mom. She was never married to my SS's SpermDad.

Facts are far more effective than avoidance.  Facts. Are neither good nor bad. They are merely facts. They are not badmouthing.  But kids do need the facts and the quality side of the blended family equation needs to present the facts to the kids so the kids learn how to protect themselves from the shallow and polluted end of their failed family gene pool.

So, I would roll out the facts. SD is ostensibly an adult and she should be force fed the facts so she at least can't ignore BM's toxic bullshit without chosing to be self delusional.

While my SS did not have a deprived experience when on SpermLand visitation, we for sure did not mitigate the differences in his real life at home with us and the shit puddle his SpermClan splashed around in. 

Part of our reasoning in letting SS live that difference was that he saw how hard his mom and I worked on our educations, our careers, and how he lived due to that effort in comparision to how the SpermClan did things and how he lived when he was with them.

We adopted the facts based model when he was fairly young after he would come home from SpermClan visitation upset that we were starving his three younger also out of wedlock Spermidiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas by taking money from SpermGrandHag, etc, etc, etc...

So, we chose to counter that bullshit with the facts. We reviewed the CO with him explaining that we were not taking money from his younger sibs. The CO is the law. We have to follow the law.  It was all presented in an age appropriate manner at the time we had to counter their toxic bullshit.  As he got older, he would come home from visitation with questions. We would answer them factually without rancor.  Eventually when he came home after them playing some crap that did not pass his smell test, he would dive into our Custody/Visitation/Support files and do the research for himself.  When he gained confidence and knowledge to start calling their bullshit in real time while on visitation is when the dynamic started to shift and their toxicity was stopped in it's tracks by SS himself.

Interestingly, the calls to my DW at that point were always "How come he knows about that?" The answer was always "Because it is the truth. We do not lie to him. He knows the facts because he asks. Stop lying to him."

For sure I am team give the Skid the facts. Always. Do it in an age appropriate manner. The earlier they are introduced to the facts, the less toxic drama they get from the other side.

IMHO of course.

End result, our son is a viable self supporting adult, a man of character and standing in his profession, life, and community. His three younger Spermidiot spawned half sibs include spawn #2 who is on the dole, spawn #3 who is in prison, and spawn #4 who is not far behind the inmate.

Once SS made it clear that he would not support the SpermClan financially after he aged out from under the CO, they have had nearly zero contact with him.

I would go with "I'm sorry your mom has struggled to adjust to not  being married to your dad. But, it is not acceptable for you to turn your back on your dad and on me just because your mom has issues. Please do not do that anymore."

Lillywy00's picture

But kids do need the facts and the quality side of the blended family equation needs to present the facts to the kids so the kids learn how to protect themselves from the shallow and polluted end of their failed family gene pool.
 

My bio realized how crappy and manipulative her "father" was  once she was in high school and noticed how he made very low to no effort to take care of her then would make sorry a$$ excuses like "oh I can't afford to see you in person"  (but he could clearly afford to keep a just as trashy girlfriend, could afford to procreate more kids, and could afford to take care of himself very well) 

One day (y'all know I'm queen of sprawling out documents on the dining room table) I left the court order --- the one where he was found in contempt of court and had an arrest warrant put out in him as a result --- spread out on the table. 
 

Over 10 pages of facts highlighting this fools sh*tty behavior as a parent. 
 

My goal wasn't to turn her against him but to show her that interacting with people like him is very difficult (as narcissistic tendency people tend to gaslight, lack empathy, triangulate, and lots of other very unhealthy ways of communicating) and you have to adjust accordingly to protect your mental sanity. 

Rags's picture

Lol. Subtle was not our model. We just sat him down, read the CO, and every other official document as he asked questions.  Eventually he knew it as well as we did and defended himself against them with those facts. To the point that we would occassionally find him digging into our Custody/Visitation/Support file drawers.  He read it all. Listened to the court hearing recordings, SpermDad arrest records, marriage license, divorce order (SpermDad has claimed to have never been married) etc, etc, etc...  A week before DW and I married and just before the Custody hearing in response to their attempt to take SS from his mom, Spermidiot married his 16yo GF (he was 25) to avoid being arrested for serial statutory rape at the custody hearing.  The 16yo's mother had to sign for it to happen.  He dumped/divorced the 16yo a few months after the Judge upheld full physical and legal for DW at the hearing.

SS keyed repeatedly on the lies that his research into the file cabinets uncovered.  Even now, nearly a decade and half after aging out from under the CO at 18, he will occassionally bring up his confusion over the need fro the lies.

Kids deserve the truth. The facts are the truth.

thinkthrice's picture

I dropped off the massive chronicles of me trying to chase Ex #1 for CS.  All the court documents.  My parents conspiring with my ex MIL to take away my custody, you name it.   This was back in the early 80s where the CS laws were not draconian the way they are now.   Looked like I was dropping off a full encyclopedia set (the days BG/Before Google).  The arguments over visitation; going as far as arguing over the Gregorian calendar!  (Ex #1 was a true genius with zero work ethic nor common sense).  Ex#1 and his wife went on a PAS campaign against me when DD was growing up so I had that to fight as well. 

His wife, as all SMs are when they marry non parental type men, was misguided but figured out that he was the major problem.

Rags's picture

We had one full 3 drawer file cabinet and another drawer+ in a second cabinet.  Countless call journals and DW event journals with the SpermClan, dozens of micro cassettes of ranting phone messages from SpermGrandHag or recorded phone calls any time the phone would ring from the SpermLand area code.  We lived in TX wich is a single party notification recording state.  Anyone can record a call they are a party to without notifying anyone else on the call.  The SpermGrandHag and SpermLand judges hated that.  SHe would lie, we would confirm what she had said where she was adamant that what she said did not happen had not happened, we would play a recorded call clearly showing in her voice that she was a lying POS.  

Over a number of hears SS listed to every tape and read every page of records.  Usually he would dive into the files upon returning from a SpermLand visitation where they had rolled out a load of shit, lies, manipulations, and made up crap. After his research days he would get very quiet.  Eventually it would start to come out in dinner conversations.  He would ask why would (fill in the blank) lie about this, or that, or the other thing? Why do they say what they know is not true?  How can $133/mo prevent them from providing for my sister and brothers? How did you buy our new home, cars, and my nice clothes, etc.. on the $133/mo they pay in CS for me? etc.....

Facts matter. Kids need them.  For many years after he aged out from under the CO we kept the records intact.  Just in case.

Irene H.'s picture

This was so helpful to me. Thank you.

Harry's picture

There's one right way and hundreds of wrong ways.  The child should be the important person.  They should spend time with both parents.  Both set of parents can just let things work out.  There should be a CO in place spelling out visitation, CS, medical,  ect.  
Its when there other SO involved, where things go badly.   Most SO don't want there SO talking to each other.  Lots of water under tge bridge.  The one they perform sex acts with.   Once you Fu** someone you don't go back as friends.  
'some many people , so many emotions, some many people fighting for control.   " If you love me, you will not talk to your ex". 
'People don't talk to people they were in relationship with.